[TETENAL]

Wouldn't it be nice if we could have a serious discussion about politics that widens our horizon? Well, we could, if we'd limit discussion to those people who take politics seriously. You can't, if you're discussing with a troll, whose only intent and source of self-esteem is to generate replies. Apparently a negative reply is better than no attention at all for this miserable kind of create. The troll isn't interested in the topic at hand, he is only interested in getting a maximum of replies. You can therefore recognize him like this:

• Often and apparently arbitrarily changes the topic of the discussion.
• Lacks logic and acts "stupid" to provoke reactions.
• Tries to pull the discussion onto an emotional level.
• Lacks substance in his replies. Either cut & paste or one-liners.
• Posts in a multitude of threads as if interested in everything, while factually interested in nothing but attention through replies, not the actual topic.

It's fun to play along and we get some of the longest threads with some of the hottest discussions, but ultimately it's a waste of time, because the "other" side isn't interested in the topic at all. This makes the Political Lounge pretty much useless. So please, whenever you spot a troll, put him on ignore and go on. The only way to stop them is to deprive them of what they want: attention. No amount of arguing would change their mind, since they are not interested in the topic, they are interested in the arguing itself. If we all put them on ignore, we might have fewer discussions in the Political Lounge, but we will have more serious ones of higher quality.

[Kerrigan]

Of course, if the PoliLounge continues down its path to destruction, we could end up in a situation where all Conservatives are on Liberals' ignore lists, and vice versa, creating a false sense of calm and agreement

[Rumor]

But it's so fun to watch them fight over dominance.

[Spliffdaddy]

*Spots a troll*

*Adds TETENAL to ignore list*

[BRussell]

Things seems to be particularly testy today.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by BRussell

Things seems to be particularly testy today.

Are you calling me a thing?! **** that, you're ignore-listed!

[Kerrigan]

"Sorry, you can not add yourself to your own ignore list."

[D. S. Troyer]

First side with WMD's wins.

This forum goes tits up.

[Kevin]

[marden]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Wouldn't it be nice if we could have a serious discussion about politics that widens our horizon? Well, we could, if we'd limit discussion to those people who take politics seriously. You can't, if you're discussing with a troll, whose only intent and source of self-esteem is to generate replies. Apparently a negative reply is better than no attention at all for this miserable kind of create. The troll isn't interested in the topic at hand, he is only interested in getting a maximum of replies. You can therefore recognize him like this:

• Often and apparently arbitrarily changes the topic of the discussion.
• Lacks logic and acts "stupid" to provoke reactions.
• Tries to pull the discussion onto an emotional level.
• Lacks substance in his replies. Either cut & paste or one-liners.
• Posts in a multitude of threads as if interested in everything, while factually interested in nothing but attention through replies, not the actual topic.

It's fun to play along and we get some of the longest threads with some of the hottest discussions, but ultimately it's a waste of time, because the "other" side isn't interested in the topic at all. This makes the Political Lounge pretty much useless. So please, whenever you spot a troll, put him on ignore and go on. The only way to stop them is to deprive them of what they want: attention. No amount of arguing would change their mind, since they are not interested in the topic, they are interested in the arguing itself. If we all put them on ignore, we might have fewer discussions in the Political Lounge, but we will have more serious ones of higher quality.

As someone who resembles those remarks somewhat, I will take them to heart and respond to them in a serious manner.



Seriously.

• Often and apparently arbitrarily changes the topic of the discussion.

The alternative when carrying on a discussion is to create a whole new thread when the subject veers even slightly from the original. Surely that's not what you suggest is better.

• Lacks logic and acts "stupid" to provoke reactions.

I recognize that many employ this device and they are trolls. It boils down to how gullible and tolerant you are of stupidity. When someone acts stupid you can suffer them or not. But that is frustrating.

• Tries to pull the discussion onto an emotional level.

Once again, a problem on these pages. However, it is also a chance for all of us to recognize how people and groups use emotional appeals to manipulate us and how susceptible many of us are to that manipulation. This is a good laboratory to examine this tactic.

• Lacks substance in his replies. Either cut & paste or one-liners.

Sometimes the best response has already been published. If I said:

sometimes a nation has to leave or break off from another nation to be it's own nation and it is better or more polite to tell them why and tell the world.

There may be those who will ask WTF I'm talking about and they will question the statement or challenge it and that will require more explanation. But if I cut & paste this:

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

Preamble to the Unanimous Declaration
of the Thirteen United States of America

july 4, 1776

The readers are informed this is from a reliable source, they are further educated in the process and conversation is enhanced without dealing as much with the boring personality based

• Posts in a multitude of threads as if interested in everything, while factually interested in nothing but attention through replies, not the actual topic.

Do you find it hard to believe that some people have a wider variety of interests than thou?

At a cocktail or dinner party the people who are most often in demand for host's guest lists are those who are not just chatty and witty or agreeable but those who can add to the substance of the conversations, no matter what the topic. And those who have a variety of opinions which may not be predictable but are always entertaining. There are several people like that here and even though their POV's may differ from mine, I do recognize their importance and appreciate their presence. They are like flavors added to the stew. There are some who do argue just for the sake of argument or to add to their post counts but they are inconsequential.

Do you bemoan the quality of discussion with any one person you are talking with? Or do you want EVERYONE to follow not only your intellectual lead but also your desired conversational tone and subject matter?

I know this is not what you mean, but the end result of your suggestions would probably lead to these unintended consequences:

Resentment, rebellion, chastisement and YOU would be ignored by all but a rare few. Those few you'd do better to PM rather than waste the time and space in open forum to reach, anyway.

I hope this serious response meets with your approval.

Although because it's quite possible that you have already placed me on your ignore list, that you'd miss out on what MIGHT be one of the few "serious" responses you'll get to your topic. Way to stereotype! And isn't THAT the most profound lesson of all? By PRE-JUDGING we deny ourselves the chance to gain from those we look down upon.

So, bottom line, do whatever you want. Put anyone on ignore and it's likely to be your loss as much as theirs.

[pooka]

I agree with TETENAL. This place has gone to ****. Lets put the kids to bed and have some grownup conversations again.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by marden

As someone who resembles those remarks somewhat, I will take them to heart and respond to them in a serious manner.



Seriously.



The alternative when carrying on a discussion is to create a whole new thread when the subject veers even slightly from the original. Surely that's not what you suggest is better.



I recognize that many employ this device and they are trolls. It boils down to how gullible and tolerant you are of stupidity. When someone acts stupid you can suffer them or not. But that is frustrating.



Once again, a problem on these pages. However, it is also a chance for all of us to recognize how people and groups use emotional appeals to manipulate us and how susceptible many of us are to that manipulation. This is a good laboratory to examine this tactic.



Sometimes the best response has already been published. If I said:



There may be those who will ask WTF I'm talking about and they will question the statement or challenge it and that will require more explanation. But if I cut & paste this:



The readers are informed this is from a reliable source, they are further educated in the process and conversation is enhanced without dealing as much with the boring personality based



Do you find it hard to believe that some people have a wider variety of interests than thou?

At a cocktail or dinner party the people who are most often in demand for host's guest lists are those who are not just chatty and witty or agreeable but those who can add to the substance of the conversations, no matter what the topic. And those who have a variety of opinions which may not be predictable but are always entertaining. There are several people like that here and even though their POV's may differ from mine, I do recognize their importance and appreciate their presence. They are like flavors added to the stew. There are some who do argue just for the sake of argument or to add to their post counts but they are inconsequential.

Do you bemoan the quality of discussion with any one person you are talking with? Or do you want EVERYONE to follow not only your intellectual lead but also your desired conversational tone and subject matter?

I know this is not what you mean, but the end result of your suggestions would probably lead to these unintended consequences:

Resentment, rebellion, chastisement and YOU would be ignored by all but a rare few. Those few you'd do better to PM rather than waste the time and space in open forum to reach, anyway.

I hope this serious response meets with your approval.

Although because it's quite possible that you have already placed me on your ignore list, that you'd miss out on what MIGHT be one of the few "serious" responses you'll get to your topic. Way to stereotype! And isn't THAT the most profound lesson of all? By PRE-JUDGING we deny ourselves the chance to gain from those we look down upon.

So, bottom line, do whatever you want. Put anyone on ignore and it's likely to be your loss as much as theirs.

In other words, you are a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. Welcome to the ignore list, words you utter no longer bear any significance.

[marden]

Originally Posted by osiris

In other words, you are a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. Welcome to the ignore list, words you utter no longer bear any significance.

How you came to THAT conclusion defies explanation (even if you were that self aware or introspective, IMHO).

[osiris]

Originally Posted by marden

How you came to THAT conclusion defies explanation (even if you were that self aware or introspective, IMHO).

Let's see, you said so in your post.

"I recognize that many employ this device and they are trolls. It boils down to how gullible and tolerant you are of stupidity. When someone acts stupid you can suffer them or not. But that is frustrating."

This instantly classifies you as a jerk, for you partake in such manipulative activities. My, that is frustrating.

and again, you said:

"Once again, a problem on these pages. However, it is also a chance for all of us to recognize how people and groups use emotional appeals to manipulate us and how susceptible many of us are to that manipulation. This is a good laboratory to examine this tactic."

Do we amuse you? Do you feel emotionally superior?

[marden]

Originally Posted by osiris

Let's see, you said so in your post.

"I recognize that many employ this device and they are trolls. It boils down to how gullible and tolerant you are of stupidity. When someone acts stupid you can suffer them or not. But that is frustrating."

This instantly classifies you as a jerk, for you partake in such manipulative activities. My, that is frustrating.

and again, you said:

"Once again, a problem on these pages. However, it is also a chance for all of us to recognize how people and groups use emotional appeals to manipulate us and how susceptible many of us are to that manipulation. This is a good laboratory to examine this tactic."

Do we amuse you? Do you feel emotionally superior?

Generally speaking, no and no.

But please don't ask me a question which, if I answered honestly, might cast you in a poor light.

[Kerrigan]

abe

[osiris]

Originally Posted by marden

Generally speaking, no and no.

But please don't ask me a question which, if I answered honestly, might cast you in a poor light.

I doubt that would be possible, even with your mind games.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Ol' abe lincoln was a heck of a man. He walked around the streets with a stick and a band, singing "Kerrigan, Kerrigan he's our man. If he can't misidentify abe, nobody can."

Fixed.

[marden]

Originally Posted by osiris

I doubt that would be possible, even with your mind games.

You're probably right.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by marden

Fixed.

Christ, your made-up quote screams something Mojoab would say all the more...

[marden]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Christ, your made-up quote screams something Mojoab would say all the more...

You think that's not intentional?

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by marden

You think that's not intentional?

No, writing like yourself is natural.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Dakar

No, writing like yourself is natural.

I've read so much about this/these guy(s) I decided to take a look at some of his posts and I can see the resemblance. So, I noted a few of his posting traits and I'm introducing them as time goes by just for fun. If you are going to accuse me of it ANYWAY, I may as well get some fun out of it too, right?

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by marden

I've read so much about this/these guy(s) I decided to take a look at some of his posts and I can see the resemblance. So, I noted a few of his posting traits and I'm introducing them as time goes by just for fun. If you are going to accuse me of it ANYWAY, I may as well get some fun out of it too, right?

Had that comment prepared for when I was suppose to ask how you knew how to write like a guy who stopped posting before you got here, eh?

[marden]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Had that comment prepared for when I was suppose to ask how you knew how to write like a guy who stopped posting before you got here, eh?

Ye hath such little faith.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by marden

Ye hath such little faith.

Actually, I seem to have quite a bit of faith in my conclusion.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Actually, I seem to have quite a bit of faith in my conclusion.

Were you and any of 'The Posters' (Abe, et al) posting pals or something?

[Dakar]

'The Posters?'

[BRussell]

Remember that admitting that he's mojo-abe-aberdeenwriter would admit to a violation of the forum rules. Why don't we just lay off and let him be whoever he wants.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Dakar

'The Posters?'

Abe, Mojo, Aberdinejad and whoever else.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by BRussell

Remember that admitting that he's mojo-abe-aberdeenwriter would admit to a violation of the forum rules. Why don't we just lay off and let him be whoever he wants.

That doesn't sound like much fun.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Dakar

That doesn't sound like much fun.

#2 - Were you and any of 'The Posters' (Abe, et al) posting pals or something?

[Monique]

Since we are not robots, there are sujects that hit harder for some people than others. It is normal that some dicussions will heated.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Monique

Since we are not robots, there are sujects that hit harder for some people than others. It is normal that some dicussions will heated.

Yes.

[marden]

Originally Posted by osiris 

I doubt that would be possible, even with your mind games.

Ran across this...



And thought of you!

[turtle777]

TETENAL, I agree with your post. You hit it spot on.

As we can already see in this thread, a certain "in-duh-vidual" will do any and everything to prevent a civilized discussion. I don't even have to mention his name, because he will come out and bash me anyways. So let him reveal himself.

-t

[subego]

Originally Posted by marden 

I've read so much about this/these guy(s) I decided to take a look at some of his posts and I can see the resemblance. So, I noted a few of his posting traits and I'm introducing them as time goes by just for fun.

If this is true, I've gotta say apart from it being a really frickin' weird thing to do, you should really get your own material.

That being said, I think you are being unfairly lumped in the troll category. The cut and paste can get kind of rough (summaries are virtuous), but I think someone taking you to task for topic drift just doesn't get it. This is clearly your style, and you engage in it whether it suits your self-interest or not.

In fact, of all the people who are being talked about here (and you know who you are) you seem to be the one of the few who will directly address a topic if pressed.

This would be a trait that Mojo/Abe/Aberdeenwriter had as well, and is a good thing.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by subego 

That being said, I think you are being unfairly lumped in the troll category. The cut and paste can get kind of rough (summaries are virtuous), but I think someone taking you to task for topic drift just doesn't get it. This is clearly your style, and you engage in it whether it suits your self-interest or not.

That's like saying, "Anyone who takes you to task for stealing just doesn't get it. Taking other people's stuff is your style." Whether trolling and derailing is "your style" or not, if you do it, the accusation seems valid to me.

Originally Posted by subego 

In fact, of all the people who are being talked about here (and you know who you are) you seem to be the one of the few who will directly address a topic if pressed.

If by "address the topic," you mean "accuse people of being too stupid to understand the topic and post exorbitantly large JPEGs that insult people who disagree with you," I completely agree.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

That's like saying, "Anyone who takes you to task for murder just doesn't get it. Hacking up innocent people is your style." Whether trolling is "your style" or not, if you do it, the accusation seems valid to me.

Sorry. I should have said "stream-of-conciousness" is his style. This is why I felt its constancy is relevant. If he was doing this to be a troll, he would only do it in support his trollish behavior.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

If by "address the topic," you mean "accuse people of being too stupid to understand the topic and post exorbitantly large JPEGs that insult people who disagree with you," I completely agree.

This is what needs to be "pressed" through. I understand an unwillingness to do so, but I maintain that a real troll wouldn't let you do this, i.e. a true troll would just provide an infinite amount of static. There are absolutely, positively people around here that do this.

AFAIK, he's never accused me of being stupid.

Either way, irritating ≠ troll

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by subego 

AFAIK, he's never accused me of being stupid.

He has called me all kinds of things.

He doesn't even know what my political thouhgts are, but I'm for sure not gonna reveal it in his threads.

In my opinion, he is a sub-form of a troll. Most of his threads are flamebaits.

-t

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by subego 

Either way, irritating ≠ troll

Actually, annoying people is a great method of trolling. Get a bunch of people irritated and threads will go on forever even if there's no legitimate topic being discussed. A lot of threads in the Political Lounge are this way.

I used to troll on AOL boards back when I was younger, and that was exactly how I'd do it. I'd look at what topic was overplayed at the time, make an infuriatingly stupid post along the same lines, then watch the replies come rolling in. People would keep flaming me even after a few of the reasonable posters had pointed out that I was clearly just trying to lead people on.

[marden]

Originally Posted by subego 

If this is true, I've gotta say apart from it being a really frickin' weird thing to do, you should really get your own material.

That being said, I think you are being unfairly lumped in the troll category. The cut and paste can get kind of rough (summaries are virtuous), but I think someone taking you to task for topic drift just doesn't get it. This is clearly your style, and you engage in it whether it suits your self-interest or not.

In fact, of all the people who are being talked about here (and you know who you are) you seem to be the one of the few who will directly address a topic if pressed.

This would be a trait that Mojo/Abe/Aberdeenwriter had as well, and is a good thing.

THANK YOU!

Recognition on my own merits is a great thing!

Can you imagine what it's like to walk in the shadow of a giant?

subego, you have won a small place in my heart for this post.

[marden]

Originally Posted by subego 

Sorry. I should have said "stream-of-conciousness" is his style. This is why I felt its constancy is relevant. If he was doing this to be a troll, he would only do it in support his trollish behavior.

This is what needs to be "pressed" through. I understand an unwillingness to do so, but I maintain that a real troll wouldn't let you do this, i.e. a true troll would just provide an infinite amount of static. There are absolutely, positively people around here that do this.

AFAIK, he's never accused me of being stupid.

Either way, irritating ≠ troll

And for this you earn, "THE CLAP!"

[marden]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Actually, annoying people is a great method of trolling. Get a bunch of people irritated and threads will go on forever even if there's no legitimate topic being discussed. A lot of threads in the Political Lounge are this way.

I used to troll on AOL boards back when I was younger, and that was exactly how I'd do it. I'd look at what topic was overplayed at the time, make an infuriatingly stupid post along the same lines, then watch the replies come rolling in. People would keep flaming me even after a few of the reasonable posters had pointed out that I was clearly just trying to lead people on.

YOU ARE BUSTED!

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by marden 

YOU ARE BUSTED!

You are not making sense.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

You are not making sense.

I won't fall for your trolling now!

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by marden 

THANK YOU!
Recognition on my own merits is a great thing!
Can you imagine what it's like to walk in the shadow of a giant?
subego, you have won a small place in my heart for this post.

Cue Kevin's ass-kissing pic.

-t

[subego]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Actually, annoying people is a great method of trolling.

No it's not! STFU jerkwad.








Seriously though, did you end up dropping the troll act at some point in those conversations? If you did, I have to say you were a pretty crappy troll. You also have to assess whether someone is being contrary just to be contrary.

I won't give you the name of the example I have in mind, but his initials are Spliffdaddy.

[itai195]

Have you seen the thread about arming teachers?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by subego 

Seriously though, did you end up dropping the troll act at some point in those conversations? If you did, I have to say you were a pretty crappy troll.

I almost never responded to any of the flames. I didn't put a lot of effort into it in the first place anyway. I even posted from the same screen name I used for my real posts, but I'd change my signature to something silly like "Timmy the Tooth" or "High Priestess Rainbow Nitefairy." I mainly wanted to see how gullible people were more than I was interested in trolling. The point is, even despite my lack of effort, people would keep discussing Timmy's post for a week or more just because of how irritating the character was.