[goMac]

I think this is worth a read for everyone:

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...0.html?cnn=yes

[marden]

Biggest Surprise — Iraqi Police. All local guys. I never figured that we'd get a police force established in the cities in al-Anbar. I estimated that insurgents would kill the first few, scaring off the rest. Well, insurgents did kill the first few, but the cops kept on coming. The insurgents continue to target the police, killing them in their homes and on the streets, but the cops won't give up. Absolutely incredible tenacity. The insurgents know that the police are far better at finding them than we are — and they are finding them. Now, if we could just get them out of the habit of beating prisoners to a pulp...

Highest Unit Re-enlistment Rate — Any outfit that has been in Iraq recently. All the danger, all the hardship, all the time away from home, all the horror, all the frustrations with the fight here — all are outweighed by the desire for young men to be part of a band of brothers who will die for one another. They found what they were looking for when they enlisted out of high school. Man for man, they now have more combat experience than any Marines in the history of our Corps.

Biggest Hassle — High-ranking visitors. More disruptive to work than a rocket attack. VIPs demand briefs and "battlefield" tours (we take them to quiet sections of Fallujah, which is plenty scary for them). Our briefs and commentary seem to have no effect on their preconceived notions of what's going on in Iraq. Their trips allow them to say that they've been to Fallujah, which gives them an unfortunate degree of credibility in perpetuating their fantasies about the insurgency here.

Biggest Outrage — Practically anything said by talking heads on TV about the war in Iraq, not that I get to watch much TV. Their thoughts are consistently both grossly simplistic and politically slanted. Biggest Offender: Bill O'Reilly.

These are some of the sections I found noteworthy.

[Sayf-Allah]

Most Profound Man in Iraq — an unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."

Coolest Insurgent Act — Stealing almost $7 million from the main bank in Ramadi in broad daylight, then, upon exiting, waving to the Marines in the combat outpost right next to the bank, who had no clue of what was going on. The Marines waved back. Too cool.

lol

Best Chuck Norris Moment — 13 May. Bad Guys arrived at the government center in a small town to kidnap the mayor, since they have a problem with any form of government that does not include regular beheadings and women wearing burqahs. There were seven of them. As they brought the mayor out to put him in a pick-up truck to take him off to be beheaded (on video, as usual), one of the Bad Guys put down his machine gun so that he could tie the mayor's hands. The mayor took the opportunity to pick up the machine gun and drill five of the Bad Guys. The other two ran away. One of the dead Bad Guys was on our top twenty wanted list. Like they say, you can't fight City Hall.

Good stuff!

[Nicko]

, if ever there was need for more evidence on the pointlessness of this war, this letter is it. Notice how the author never once listed any successes? It's not unlike the British colonial adventures in the 19th century.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Nicko

, if ever there was need for more evidence on the pointlessness of this war, this letter is it. Notice how the author never once listed any successes? It's not unlike the British colonial adventures in the 19th century.

Just because Thomas Edison was unable to find the correct filament to use to create the incandescent light bulb after a thousand tries did not mean the goal was impossible to achieve, nor that the effort should have been abandoned or was without merit.

[lpkmckenna]

Second Biggest Mystery — if there's no atheists in foxholes, then why aren't there more people at Mass every Sunday?

Another myth bites the dust.

[moodymonster]

the midgets lol

[marden]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

Second Biggest Mystery — if there's no atheists in foxholes, then why aren't there more people at Mass every Sunday?

Another myth bites the dust.

They are young healthy men and women who might use their time off in a different way than in worship. Would you go so far as to say that, on the basis of this report, that the majority of the forces there are atheists?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by marden

Just because Thomas Edison was unable to find the correct filament to use to create the incandescent light bulb after a thousand tries did not mean the goal was impossible to achieve, nor that the effort should have been abandoned or was without merit.

People didn't die/become more angry at Thomas Edison every time he screwed up a light bulb.

[marden]

Originally Posted by goMac

People didn't die/become more angry at Thomas Edison every time he screwed up a light bulb.

When you want to prevent a nuclear holocaust which would murder millions from touching off WW4, stop the killing and oppression of millions of Iraqis, eliminate the threat of an oil embargo, prevent disparate forces joining together to create a much more potent 'Jihad, Inc.' and create stability in a chronically unstable and violent region which the al Qaeda already was claiming as theirs, how do you do it without loss of life?

Or do you just not try?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by goMac

People didn't die/become more angry at Thomas Edison every time he screwed up a light bulb.

I don't know what is worse, the actual deaths, or those using said deaths for political shilling.

But really, both sides can play that retarded game.

History and Society/War & Weapons/Chemical Warfare

I was really hoping the reason you didn't apologize to me about said accusation was because the thread was locked.

[itai195]

Or those who squelch any discussion of the consequences of war for political shilling.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by itai195

Or those who squelch any discussion of the consequences of war for political shilling.

No one is squelching any discussion, or denying it's happening.

I am talking about the whole pretend act in attempt to make a "point" for your "side"

Very crocodile tears kinda situation.

Those people only mattered when we kicked Saddam out. Not when Saddam was murdering them by the thousands.

Least we not forget many Iraqis were asking the soldiers what took us so long to out Saddam.

They wanted free of his tyranny.

[analogika]

I forget - are those the ones who were dancing in the streets, or the ones bombing your troops, or the dead ones?

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by analogika

I forget - are those the ones who were dancing in the streets, or the ones bombing your troops, or the dead ones?

Silly, they were the ones throwing rose petals at their feet!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by analogika

I forget - are those the ones who were dancing in the streets, or the ones bombing your troops, or the dead ones?

Are you denying there were people dancing in the streets and thanking us for liberating them? I surely hope not.

There are all kinds of people in Iraq with all kinds of different viewpoints.

And I know you'd rather not admit it, but there are a great many there that are glad we ousted Saddam.

These people want a better life. And it was worth it all because of that.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Are you denying there were people dancing in the streets and thanking us for liberating them? I surely hope not.

There are all kinds of people in Iraq with all kinds of different viewpoints.

And I know you'd rather not admit it, but there are a great many there that are glad we ousted Saddam.

These people want a better life. And it was worth it all because of that.

It's simple:

Was ousting Sadam and imposing our way of life on the Iraqis a worthy cause? Is it worth 100's of BILLIONS of our tax dollars and THOUSANDS of American lives? Was Iraq that much of a threat? What about North Korea. Everything I've read indicates that Kim Jong Il is a much greater threat to the U.S. than Iraq ever could have been.

Of course there are Iraqis happy that we got rid of Sadam. They guy was a tyrant, no doubt about that. But there are billions of people living in misery all over the world...shall we go help them all? It's the United States responsibility to make sure everyone in the world has a better life? I can't quite figure out where you fit in the political spectrum...

We can argue this forever... I probably won't chance your mind, and you probably won't change mine. Time will be the ultimate judge. My belief is that when we look back, we will conclude that the Iraq war was a huge waste of human life and money.

Just image spending a minor fraction of that money to help make sure that all Americans have food and shelter... or are guaranteed tertiary education... or health care? We can waste billions on a pointless war and it's okay ... but spend a little money on health care.. blasphemy.

Oh.. and what about the guy that started this whole mess? Our one-time friend, Osama? Oh yeah... I forget... we're not supposed to talk about him... seeing that we can't even seem to find the guy...

... what an embarassment that is...

[marden]

Originally Posted by analogika

I forget - are those the ones who were dancing in the streets, or the ones bombing your troops, or the dead ones?

You are looking at the situation as a static snapshot or a monolithic, all or nothing, situation.

A majority of the Iraqi people probably did welcome a break from Saddam's sadistic, iron fisted and oppressive rule. But in changing times and with changing events the only people who refuse to change their position are those who have a philosophy, belief or agenda to guide them.

The Iraqi people have various beliefs and as time has passed we've seen many of those with false beliefs be educated by reality. The people have seen that it isn't the Americans they have to fear, it is the religious zealots.

The Iraqis who had radical Islamic beliefs remained steadfast and have done what they could to increase those who would multiply their numbers and increase the effectiveness of their resistance to moderate government.

They have offered food and money to those who would plant IED's.

They offer the lure of "free" sex to horny young men who ONLY have to die for their religion in order to break their 'cherry' in heaven and be thought a hero on earth.

And so the belief is defended in spite of the truth of the situation.

Presumably, the posters here have no such pent up sexual frustration and have a sufficient amount of food and money, so in view of the changing events in Iraq why have you not changed your positions at all?