[stupendousman]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/27/us...gewanted=print

ast weekend, Jim Webb, the Virginia Democrat who hopes to oust Senator George Allen, crammed in visits to 12 black churches, and for several weeks he has been pumping money into advertisements on black radio stations and in black newspapers.

In Missouri, Claire McCaskill, the Democrat trying to unseat Senator Jim Talent, has been running advertisements about sickle cell anemia, a genetic illness that mostly afflicts black people, and the importance of stem cell research in helping to find a cure.

For Democrats like these in tight races, black voter turnout will be crucial on Election Day. But despite a generally buoyant Democratic Party nationally, there are worries among Democratic strategists in some states that blacks may not turn up at the polls in big enough numbers because of disillusionment over past shenanigans.

“This notion that elections are stolen and that elections are rigged is so common in the public sphere that we’re having to go out of our way to counter them this year,” said Donna Brazile, a Democratic strategist.
_____________________

Why are these misconceptions there? Because for the past 6 years or so, the left has been such sore losers that they've looked for every opportunity to claim that an election was "stolen" when they came out on the short end of the stick once all the legal votes were counted in order to make political hay. Now it looks like their constituency might have bought their lies and now figure it no use to go vote since the election will be "stolen" anyways.

Gotta love how it when crying Wolf causes one to end up with teeth marks on their butt!

[invisibleX]

You like republicans. You don't like democrats.

Am I the only one who fails to care which side of the fence you throw rocks from? Or have american politics just gotten that rabid?

[tie]

Every Bush supporter should love how it when Americans decide not to vote because they believe the elections are rigged. Hooray! What are some other ideas we can use to try to keep black voter turnout as low as possible?

[TheWOAT]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/27/us...gewanted=print
Why are these misconceptions there? Because for the past 6 years or so, the left has been such sore losers that they've looked for every opportunity to claim that an election was "stolen" when they came out on the short end of the stick once all the legal votes were counted in order to make political hay. Now it looks like their constituency might have bought their lies and now figure it no use to go vote since the election will be "stolen" anyways.

Gotta love how it when crying Wolf causes one to end up with teeth marks on their butt!

Like spittin' in the wind. Or peeing on an electrical fence. I dont beleive your conclusion 100%, but its an interesting take.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by tie 

Every Bush supporter should love how it when Americans decide not to vote because they believe the elections are rigged. Hooray! What are some other ideas we can use to try to keep black voter turnout as low as possible?

Just sit down and twiddle your thumbs, secure in the knowledge that trying to keep the black demographic from voting is like trying to get a fish wet.

[Spliffdaddy]

heh. that's funny.

Yeah, it looks like the Dems are worried. As compared to last week when Pelosi was bragging that she'd take any of the offices she wanted - when she becomes House Speaker in November.

The Republican turnout will be unprecedented for a mid-term election. Mark my words. The price for not voting would be a Democratic majority and a Nancy Pelosi. That's all the incentive a southern white family needs.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by tie 

Every Bush supporter should love how it when Americans decide not to vote because they believe the elections are rigged. Hooray! What are some other ideas we can use to try to keep black voter turnout as low as possible?

See. I want EVERYONE to vote. Legally.

I don't want voter fraud nor do I want people to be lulled into thinking their vote doesn't count.

I'm not the problem. I have no problems with having as many black and white people vote as possible. I don't have a problem with anyone who doesn't share my political views staying home and letting everyone I want to win, do so either..but I digress.

The point is that the Democrats are shooting themselves in the foot...again...for now probably the thousandth time. It's why EVEN WITH record poll numbers for Republicans, they STILL will probably not win either house in Congress. They can't play fair, and that ends up hurting them in the end. The reason why they can't play fair is that for the past 20 years or so, most of the country have found that they are diametrically opposed to the things supported by the democratic "base". The folks who call themselves "progressives", which essentially means that they have progressed so far out of the mainstream that they make the far right fundementalists look reasonable. There's no way to win in such an environment unless you choose to fight dirty. It worked for Clinton, but Clinton is probably the most accomplished politician that the country has ever seen. Dick Morris taught him well....

Until the democrats come back to being a party for EVERYONE, and not just minority interest groups, they will be a minority party. I don't think that the moneymen in the party (Soros and the Hollywood high rollers) will allow it though.

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

Until the democrats come back to being a party for EVERYONE, and not just minority interest groups, they will be a minority party. I don't think that the moneymen in the party (Soros and the Hollywood high rollers) will allow it though.

Um ok, so what do you have against Soros?

[Spliffdaddy]

I love the guy. Ever since he got involved in funding Democrats - they haven't won.

He tries to set the agenda for the Democratic party, based on his own leftwing beliefs. He's well outside mainstream America. But the Dems can't seem to resist his loot.

I'll suggest he's the primary reason for the failure of Democrats at the polls.

[stupendousman]

Well..Spliffdaddy stole my words. :lol

I don't think he's the "primary" reason though. Too many in the Dem. power structure think JUST LIKE him. They have no problem with his money, because they have no problem with his extreme left-wing views.

[besson3c]

What are some of these extreme left-wing views you speak of?

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

What are some of these extreme left-wing views you speak of?

No kidding. I mean Soros must really be some kind of radical left-wing nut job to be such a successful billionaire. Who knows.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

What are some of these extreme left-wing views you speak of?

Well, the man was quite open about being Anybody-But-Bush in 2004. That's pretty extreme: rather than attacking an ideology he attacked a person, and that goes in the 'extreme' category right there.

I wonder if anyone ever got the chance to ask him my favorite response at the time: "Anybody, even Perroutka?" That was usually enough to knock at least a little sense into people's heads. But Soros was clear enough on his stance that he actually went so far as to use the words "anybody but Bush." Those are not the words of someone thinking clearly when it comes to politics.

[Nicko]

But come on Millennium, hindsight being 20/20, anyone but Bush probably would have been nothing but a good thing.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Nicko 

But come on Millennium, hindsight being 20/20, anyone but Bush probably would have been nothing but a good thing.

Even Peroutka?

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Even Peroutka?

Ok I looked up the guy on wiki. I don't see how Peroutka could have been any worse than Bush, and at the very least it would have been entertaining.

Anyone but Bush! ANYONE!!!!

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

Well, the man was quite open about being Anybody-But-Bush in 2004. That's pretty extreme: rather than attacking an ideology he attacked a person, and that goes in the 'extreme' category right there.

That's not a viewpoint, that's just dumb political horse race rah rah type stuff... What about actual ideology?

[Dork.]

I had an interesting conversation with my wife the other day, who is definitely an "anyone but Bush" supporter:

me: What about a monkey?
her: I'd vote for a monkey over Bush.

me: What about a ham sandwich?
her: Well, I think you need to be breathing to be elected, don't you?

me: OK, what about a slug?
her: Slugs don't breathe.
me: Of course they do, they're alive, right?
her: But they don't have lungs, how would they breathe?

I would have to say that I'm firmly in the "anyone but bush" camp -- even though I nearly voted for him in 2000 because I didn't think Gore was any better -- but I got there due to my disagreement with his philosophy on the WoT and Iraq, not just because he's a Republican. Do I literally mean I'd vote for Castro or A-Rod over Bush? Of course not. But there are very few polititians that I would put below Bush in my list. (Cheney, maybe. Or Rumsfeld.)

I even think George Steinbrenner would make a better president than Bush? At least Stienbrenner would spend whatever it takes to get all the big-name stars on his team when he goes to war....

[besson3c]

I think God and Jesus should run on a joint ballet... God and Jesus in 2008! They would be so kick ass, they could hire ham sandwiches to take on cabinet positions!

[Nicko]

Funny thing is, I think its plausible.

[Dakar²]

Holy Spirit for Chief of Staff

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

What are some of these extreme left-wing views you speak of?

http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200502170843.asp

He helps terrorists, He's anti-war, pro-recreational drug legalization (not just pot either) and has made it clear via the extreme left-wing entities he chooses to shower with his cash (Move-On.org, etc.) that he shares their views which are pretty much out of the mainstream compared to that of the average American.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

Byron York on George Soros & Lynne Stewart on National Review Online

He helps terrorists, He's anti-war, pro-recreational drug legalization (not just pot either) and has made it clear via the extreme left-wing entities he chooses to shower with his cash (Move-On.org, etc.) that he shares their views which are pretty much out of the mainstream compared to that of the average American.

This doens't answer my question. I don't care about individual people's beliefs, I know there are peole out there with some beliefs that are rather out there, I have heard many of them.

I just want to know what are the sorts of common extreme-leftist viewpoints that are so rampant?

[itai195]

If all the money contributed by extreme left-wing nutjobs is what's hurting Democrats so much at the polls, why isn't all the money contributed by extreme right-wing nutjobs hurting Republicans? An extreme nutjob is an extreme nutjob, no?

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

This doens't answer my question. I don't care about individual people's beliefs, I know there are peole out there with some beliefs that are rather out there, I have heard many of them.

I just want to know what are the sorts of common extreme-leftist viewpoints that are so rampant?

I said: "They have no problem with his money, because they have no problem with his extreme left-wing views."

You asked: "What are some of these extreme left-wing views you speak of?"

I posted some of the extreme left-wing views held by Soros that I was speaking of. It most certainly answers the question you asked.

Originally Posted by itai195 

If all the money contributed by extreme left-wing nutjobs is what's hurting Democrats so much at the polls, why isn't all the money contributed by extreme right-wing nutjobs hurting Republicans? An extreme nutjob is an extreme nutjob, no?

True. I think that sometimes the same thing hurts the Republicans. The Democrats used this sort of thing post-1994 as a club against the Republicans. The problem for them is that the extreme left is much farther from the mainstream than the extreme right for the most part. Despite what the left says, must of the "right-wing nutjobs" don't want Jesus to take over government or anything of the sort. It's mostly a desire to get back to values held back when the founding fathers where still alive. While some of those values may be outdated and no longer apply to a lot of Americans, people can understand where they are coming from because we've already lived in a time where the way these people wish to live was the norm.

The people living in bunkers stocked with weapons waiting for God to come back and put America in their hands though aren't big Republican moneymen. On the other hand, the folks like Soros are in positions of power in the democrat party because of their ability to fund campaigns. I think that the past 15-20 years is evidence of this trend.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

Well, the man was quite open about being Anybody-But-Bush in 2004. That's pretty extreme: rather than attacking an ideology he attacked a person, and that goes in the 'extreme' category right there.

Actually, "anybody but Bush" covers the entire political spectrum from extreme left to moderate right, with probably only a couple of fascists on the very right fringe disagreeing over support of Israel.

It's not necessarily an "extreme" viewpoint if it's one thing a majority can agree upon - just because some extremists are part of that majority.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I think God and Jesus should run on a joint ballet...

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

I said: "They have no problem with his money, because they have no problem with his extreme left-wing views."

You asked: "What are some of these extreme left-wing views you speak of?"

I posted some of the extreme left-wing views held by Soros that I was speaking of. It most certainly answers the question you asked.

You posted an op-ed from a neoconservative website, thats hardly unbiased empirical evidence of Soros's so called radical left wing views.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Nicko 

You posted an op-ed from a neoconservative website, thats hardly unbiased empirical evidence of Soros's so called radical left wing views.

I posted an op-ed to support my claim that he supported terrorists. I think supporting anti-american terrorists most certainly does provide evidence of radical left wing views, in addition to the OTHER views I mentioned which Soros holds.

At this point...I guess my only reply can be, "whatever..."

[Wiskedjak]

It's sad when the main effort of politicians is not devoted towards convincing people to support your side, but rather towards convincing those who support your side to actually go and vote.

[besson3c]

My point above is that I don't think that there is a common theme in extremist left-wing viewpoints, I think these viewpoints are scattered and fragmented. The extreme right-wingers seem far more united:

- down with gay people
- let's kick terrorist ass, no matter what the cost
- God and Jesus are on our side
- we need to protect our freedoms and liberties

etc.

This short list of sentiments seems far more prevalent than anything else, perhaps in part because Bush himself is pretty far right.

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

My point above is that I don't think that there is a common theme in extremist left-wing viewpoints, I think these viewpoints are scattered and fragmented. The extreme right-wingers seem far more united:

- down with gay people
- let's kick terrorist ass, no matter what the cost
- God and Jesus are on our side
- we need to protect our freedoms and liberties

etc.

This short list of sentiments seems far more prevalent than anything else, perhaps in part because Bush himself is pretty far right.

So basically, the outcome of next week's election will determine if the neoconservative agenda has run its course (right off a cliff), or not.

[chabig]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

My point above is that I don't think that there is a common theme in extremist left-wing viewpoints...

Don't be silly. Of course there are common themes in extreme left viewpoints:

1. America bad
2. Killing babies good
3. Democracy bad
4. Courts good
5. Equal opportunity bad
6. Equal outcome good (except for us--we deserve better)
7. Capitalism bad
8. Communism good
9. We're smarter than you and know what's best for everyone

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by chabig 

Don't be silly. Of course there are common themes in extreme left viewpoints:

1. America bad
2. Killing babies good
3. Democracy bad
4. Courts good
5. Equal opportunity bad
6. Equal outcome good (except for us--we deserve better)
7. Capitalism bad
8. Communism good
9. We're smarter than you and know what's best for everyone

This is a parody, right?

Pretty outlandish characterization, you realize this right?

[Spliffdaddy]

It's a really accurate characterization.

Those are the foundations of extreme leftwing point of view.

[besson3c]

My ass it is an accurate characterization. I'm sure that you could find a couple of people that think some of these things, but a common theme? Pffttt.... Based on my being here in the P/L for a long time and doing my best to read what I can from a variety of sources, I think we can safely widdle down this list accordingly:

1. America bad

Maybe, but this is not really US political ideology, this is just an opinion. Why would somebody become involved in US politics if they don't even like America?

2. Killing babies good

I'll give you that pro-choicers often seem to be leftist

3. Democracy bad

WTF? What is this based on? I see many on the left *defending* democracy in America now... This one is not well thought out.

4. Courts good

How is this partisan? What would the alternative to not having courts in a Democracy be? Maybe I'm just not understanding what you are trying to say?

5. Equal opportunity bad

So Republicans are all behind Affirmative Action?f Sorry, not going to give you this one either. If any, I'd say that movements like Affirmative Action are more common among the left.

6. Equal outcome good (except for us--we deserve better)

This is vague, don't know what you mean.

7. Capitalism bad

If you mean *unregulated* capitalism is bad, I'll give you this. If you are trying to imply that extreme left-wingers are socialist, I don't agree that this is a common theme.

8. Communism good

Also not well thought out, see above

9. We're smarter than you and know what's best for everyone

Perhaps, but this is not ideology either, more so a general attitude.

[besson3c]

Spliffdaddy and other right wingers:

Now that I have made that last post, I realize that this line of argument will be fruitless, as there is no way our personal perceptions can be proven or disproven.

I'll probably sit out in replying to your responses, so probably not worth your effort.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by chabig 

3. Democracy bad

This is an interesting one, because the evidence is strong over the past few years that the professed "righties" have very little clue of what the term actually means.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I think God and Jesus should run on a joint ballet... God and Jesus in 2008! They would be so kick ass, they could hire ham sandwiches to take on cabinet positions!

Grow up.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

My point above is that I don't think that there is a common theme in extremist left-wing viewpoints, I think these viewpoints are scattered and fragmented. The extreme right-wingers seem far more united:

- down with gay people
- let's kick terrorist ass, no matter what the cost
- God and Jesus are on our side
- we need to protect our freedoms and liberties

etc.

This short list of sentiments seems far more prevalent than anything else, perhaps in part because Bush himself is pretty far right.

Well you say this above , then

Originally Posted by besson3c 

This is a parody, right?

Pretty outlandish characterization, you realize this right?

He was just being as outlandish as you were.

BTW what is happening here in the article is what the hippies call "Karma"

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

This is a parody, right?

Pretty outlandish characterization, you realize this right?

No more so than your own.

[besson3c]

Here's another dumb generalization to throw into the mix:

Extreme left wingers hate God and Jesus

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by analogika 

*Rod and Todd tone of voice*

Jesus helps us play!

[besson3c]

How come there are never any pictures of God anywhere? What does he look like? Is he more muscular than Jesus? I bet he's clean shaven...

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

How come there are never any pictures of God anywhere? What does he look like? Is he more muscular than Jesus? I bet he's clean shaven...

I always thought god looked like Santa, except fatter and less jolly.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Nicko 

I always thought god looked like Santa, except fatter and less jolly.

Well, I was thinking clean shaven, cause I figured he'd be one of those kind that would tell his kid Jesus to stop looking like a bum and go get a haircut!

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by analogika 

why does jesus still look like a dirty hippie?

get a haircut man

[besson3c]

Is Doofy into God and Jesus?

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

*Rod and Todd tone of voice*

Jesus helps us play!

and

[besson3c]

Hmmm... that first pic with Bart looks strangely homo-erotic.