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Doofy · Nov 1, 2006, 03:18 PM

...when I said that the UK is turning into a oppressive, fascist state:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...=1770&ct=5

Ministers plan to force everyone in the country to declare their income and other wealth in the most intrusive ever national census, it has been revealed.

They want questions that will disclose how much much people earn and whether they have a second home in the next nationwide survey in 2011

...

There are also plans to ask how often couples spend the night together; and to make people reveal health problems like learning difficulties and 'emotional conditions'.

...

...anyone who refuses to answer in full will face a criminal conviction and a fine of £1,000.

...

Questions about how long people stay at an address other than their main home will show where else they stay and it will be possible to work out from replies with whom they are staying.

No comment. Call it a Rule 8 violation if you like.

Rumor · Nov 1, 2006, 03:19 PM

Wow.

How many fines do you think you will rack up?

davesimondotcom · Nov 1, 2006, 03:31 PM

Only in... never mind.

Spliffdaddy · Nov 1, 2006, 03:38 PM

I think it's time for US troops to invade the UK.

We're resigned to the fact that France is lost, but, damn, we love the Benny Hill show.

Regime change is in order.

Zeeb · Nov 1, 2006, 03:39 PM

Next they'll be asking what you like to do in bed and taxing you based on what positions you like.

Rumor · Nov 1, 2006, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Zeeb

Next they'll be asking what you like to do in bed and taxing you based on what positions you like.

I find some positions more taxing than others.

Millennium · Nov 1, 2006, 08:16 PM

Without this kind of information, how can the government hope to properly distribute wealth, goods, and services?

Not actually joking. I don't agree with the ideology that makes this a necessity, precisely because it makes this a necessity. But given that ideology, I can recognize where this is coming from and why it would be needed.

villalobos · Nov 1, 2006, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

...when I said that the UK is turning into a oppressive, fascist state:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...=1770&ct=5

No comment. Call it a Rule 8 violation if you like.

It says nothing about lying to the census though. Any fine for that?

marden · Nov 1, 2006, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by Millennium

Without this kind of information, how can the government hope to properly distribute wealth, goods, and services?

Not actually joking. I don't agree with the ideology that makes this a necessity, precisely because it makes this a necessity. But given that ideology, I can recognize where this is coming from and why it would be needed.

That makes sense to me, too.

I also wonder if the London bombings of last year might have put the fear of Allah into the government and made them realize that when terrorism is brewing within their midsts the only thing to do is to reduce the leeway potential miscreants have to do their things. By knowing everything about a person they are easier to control. Their actions are made more transparent. Threats can be identified much sooner.

So, to all you hippies and bashers who hate the war and want us to pull out of Iraq, get ready for this.

Because the US government is sworn to defend you, if you remove it's ability to stop threats while they are distant and somewhat nebulous in Iraq, as Iraq becomes a jihadist haven and starts to import terrorism and the jihadists creep ever forward closer to the US you will see the government become more security conscious and intrusive and your civil liberties will be stepped on even more than they are now.

You silly, silly, silly boys.

Doofy · Nov 1, 2006, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by villalobos

It says nothing about lying to the census though. Any fine for that?

As far as I can remember, that's prison time. Although how they're going to manage that will be amusing, since the prison system is now 100% full (they're currently resorting to housing crims in police cells).

---

No doubt someone will be along first thing in the morning to tell us all how I'm wrong and that the current government are doing a great job of running things.

Zeeb · Nov 1, 2006, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by marden

That makes sense to me, too.

I also wonder if the London bombings of last year might have put the fear of Allah into the government and made them realize that when terrorism is brewing within their midsts the only thing to do is to reduce the leeway potential miscreants have to do their things. By knowing everything about a person they are easier to control. Their actions are made more transparent. Threats can be identified much sooner.

So, to all you hippies and bashers who hate the war and want us to pull out of Iraq, get ready for this.

Because the US government is sworn to defend you, if you remove it's ability to stop threats while they are distant and somewhat nebulous in Iraq, as Iraq becomes a jihadist haven and starts to import terrorism and the jihadists creep ever forward closer to the US you will see the government become more security conscious and intrusive and your civil liberties will be stepped on even more than they are now.

You silly, silly, silly boys.

1. We're talking about the UK in this thread. True, both the UK and US have the letter "U" in them, but they are actually different countries.

2. You're paranoid and I would gladly live in a country where I could be gunned down, blown up or poisoned by a jihadist than live in the paranoid police state that you would like to see established.

3. Not everyone who posts here is a boy.

Millennium · Nov 2, 2006, 06:23 AM

Um... I think my post was misinterpreted. The ideology I was talking about was socialism, not false-jihad. Nothing could make unethical methods of law enforcement necessary.

Atheist · Nov 2, 2006, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by Millennium

Um... I think my post was misinterpreted. The ideology I was talking about was socialism, not false-jihad. Nothing could make unethical methods of law enforcement necessary.

Come on now... you should know by now that EVERY post is about the war in Iraq and the jihadist global threat.

vmarks · Nov 2, 2006, 07:24 AM

Doofy,

You staved off any Rule8 violation with your opening sentences that introduced the article.

This census taking is not about jihad. It is about a government that has decided it needs to care for you from cradle to grave, and to do that best needs to know everything about you.

People forget or they don't seem to care that the government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take it all away.

Sky Captain · Nov 2, 2006, 07:45 AM

It's not called a nanny state for nothing.

badidea · Nov 2, 2006, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

I think it's time for US troops to invade the UK.

Oh no, please let us Germans do it!!!!
Only once we want to manage to wipe them of the island!

No offense Doofy, I am with you on this one!

But what is this for????

There are also plans to ask how often couples spend the night together

Don't they fear to look very bad compared to the rest of Europe??

Doofy · Nov 2, 2006, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by vmarks

Doofy,

You staved off any Rule8 violation with your opening sentences that introduced the article.

The mention of "Rule 8" was a comment about the topic in itself.

Originally Posted by badidea

Oh no, please let us Germans do it!!!!
Only once we want to manage to wipe them of the island!

No offense Doofy, I am with you on this one!

No, come on, please do. I can cope with listening to The Hoff and driving a Porsche, no problem.

Millennium · Nov 2, 2006, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by Atheist

Come on now... you should know by now that EVERY post is about the war in Iraq and the jihadist global threat.

I would have thought that the first paragraph in my post, which spoke about the distribution of wealth, goods, and services, would have established a clear context for my next statement, which I'd been hoping to phrase in a way that avoided open conflict. It seems that this failed, and I apologize for the misunderstanding.

What I was hoping to get across is that there is a reason we see this sort of thing in socialist or socialist-leaning societies: it's simple logistics. A government can't effectively distribute wealth, goods, and services if it doesn't know who to take them from and who to give them to (or as Marx would have put it, who the haves and the have-nots are).

Socialists and communists often talk about how their philosophies have nothing to do with totalitarianism, and they're correct as far as that goes, but their philosophies can't work under anything other than a totalitarian system: it needs that kind of power and control in order to do the things that these philosophies say it ought to be doing. It's the missing piece of their philosophical puzzle.

Big Mac · Nov 2, 2006, 09:12 AM

So Doofy, the question is, when are you emigrating?

BRussell · Nov 2, 2006, 09:25 AM

Maybe that has something to do with this story.

Britain's teenagers are among the most badly behaved in Europe, a study by a think-tank has suggested. On every indicator of bad behaviour - drugs, drink, violence, promiscuity - the UK was at or near the top, said the Institute for Public Policy Research.