[Dark Helmet]

If the blue states are sinkholes of moral decay, as right-wing pundits insist, how come red states lead the nation in violent crime, divorce, illegitimacy, and incarceration, among other evils? To a bus-riding innocent on Manhattan's stroller-filled Upper West Side, it looks like a case of hypocrisy meets stupidity.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/f.../wolcott200611

Falls under the same realm of 80% of inmates are Christians, priests who rally against gay marriage and then are found paying gay hookers for meth and sex.

[Rumor]

It's the liberal media.

[ironknee]

red states doth protest too much, methinks

[goMac]

They're just very angry about the Liberals.

[Shaddim]

Why do Canadians seem to be the ones who start the most threads on this subject? Maybe they should wonder how it happened that they elected a more conservative government this time around.

It's a puzzler.

Also, the guy wasn't a priest, he was a minister. Big difference.

[probablecause]

Blue states are not sinkholes of moral decay. The are just filled with elitist snobs who enjoy looking down on people in red states and refuse to engage in a dialouge with them. Democrats then whine that they keep losing elections because those people refuse to vote for them. Such a mystery.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by goMac 

They're just very angry about the Liberals.

I like that answer best

[goMac]

Originally Posted by probablecause 

The are just filled with elitist snobs who enjoy looking down on people in red states and refuse to engage in a dialouge with them.

This could have something to do with the red states calling the blue state cesspools of moral decay. Just a thought.

[TheWOAT]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

If the blue states are sinkholes of moral decay, as right-wing pundits insist, how come red states lead the nation in violent crime, divorce, illegitimacy, and incarceration, among other evils? To a bus-riding innocent on Manhattan's stroller-filled Upper West Side, it looks like a case of hypocrisy meets stupidity.

Red State Babylon: Politics & Power: vanityfair.com

Falls under the same realm of 80% of inmates are Christians, priests who rally against gay marriage and then are found paying gay hookers for meth and sex.

Uhhh... Poverty? So when are you going to use the same line of thought and post crime rates of different ethnicities?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by TheWOAT 

So when are you going to use the same line of thought and post crime rates of different ethnicities?

Ooooo, this outta be interesting. Can't wait to see the numbers for that.

[Dakar²]

Wow, the guy in the article's just a bit of a douche bag, eh?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

Why do Canadians seem to be the ones who start the most threads on this subject? Maybe they should wonder how it happened that they elected a more conservative government this time around.

Does it matter or is that your way of either distracting from the subject or making this thread sound invalid?

As for the Canadian Government it is a Conservative MINORITY so they can't do jack ****. Not to mention people aren't thrilled with them and they will probably be gone come next election. But that isn't the subject now here is it.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Does it matter or is that your way of either distracting from the subject or making this thread sound invalid?

As for the Canadian Government it is a Conservative MINORITY so they can't do jack ****. Not to mention people aren't thrilled with them and they will probably be gone come next election. But that isn't the subject now here is it.

Oh, I figured since you were painting with such a broad brush that other people could take pot-shots at your country too. Just seems right, no? I find it humorous that you pay more attention to the US than you do to your own country.

So, let's see the numbers for ethnicity, race, and financial background. Might as well see the whole picture, not just the parts some people feel like showing.

[itai195]

Originally Posted by TheWOAT 

Uhhh... Poverty?

Then why are they voting for Republicans?

[Rumor]

[chabig]

Originally Posted by itai195 

Then why are they voting for Republicans?

Because Republicans want to help them escape from poverty. Democrats want to keep them in poverty (dependent upon Democrats).

[itai195]

Originally Posted by chabig 

Because Republicans want to help them escape from poverty. Democrats want to keep them in poverty (dependent upon Democrats).

Okay, this deserves a lengthier explanation. Which Republican policies help the poor escape poverty?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

I find it humorous that you pay more attention to the US than you do to your own country.

Where you getting that from? Judging by just my forum posts?

To be honest what Canadian Government topics you want me to bitch about out here? I don't have any major issues with them, or even the Conservative minority. Our government isn't run by an incompetent fool. We aren't invading other countries. We don't vote for the same idiot twice and then want to impeach him.

You want me to make some Mountie and cold Canadian weather topics?

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by probablecause 

The are just filled with elitist snobs who enjoy looking down on people in red states....

yes you there in the oshkosh...can you get me some mineral water with a twist of lime? cjhop chop

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by itai195 

Okay, this deserves a lengthier explanation. Which Republican policies help the poor escape poverty?

War

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

War

the army will pay for your college!

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Where you getting that from? Judging by just my forum posts?

Myabe I get it from all the anti-US posts you make, almost on a daily basis.

Tell me, are you so fixated with the US because you wish you lived in the States? Do you attack religious figures because you wish you had faith? Is it some type of envy, or just a curiosity with how the "other half" lives? Many people around here have wondered about this for some time.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Where you getting that from? Judging by just my forum posts?

To be honest what Canadian Government topics you want me to bitch about out here? I don't have any major issues with them, or even the Conservative minority. Our government isn't run by an incompetent fool.

No, but a Conservative who seems to walk in lock-step with whom I presume you're referring.

We aren't invading other countries.

You don't have to. All you have to do is continue helping in your "not so little way" as it turns out. By the way, the US thanks you for your faithful contribution to our efforts in Iraq.

in March 2003, then-U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci admitted that Canada was of greater assistance in the US-led war against Iraq “than most of those 46 countries that are fully supporting us.” *as reported by COAT; an article drafted in staunch opposition to our actions in Iraq.

- Providing RADARSAT Data: Eagle Vision, a U.S. Air Force mobile ground station—which controls Canada’s RADARSAT-1 satellite and downlinks its data—was deployed to the Persian Gulf at the start of the 2003 war against Iraq. A Pentagon source told Space News, “It’s doing great things... It’s working like gangbusters.” (See pp.36-38.)
- Training Iraqi Police: Dozens of RCMP have been deployed to Jordan to train the Iraqi police force. Canada has given some $17.5 million for the “Iraq Security Sector” which includes police training and the provision of Canadian advisors to Iraq’s Interior Ministry.
- Training Iraqi Troops: High-level Canadian military personnel under NATO command joined the “NATO Training Mission in Iraq” to “train the trainers” of Iraqi Security Forces who are on the leading edge of the U.S. occupation. A Canadian colonel, under NATO command, was the chief of staff at the training mission based in Baghdad.
- Leading the Coalition Navy: Hundreds of Canadian troops aboard Canada’s multibillion dollar warships not only escorted the U.S. fleet through the Persian Gulf on their way to the Iraq war in 2003, they led the war-coalition’s navy. This was said to be part of ‘Operation Apollo’ (a code name for the Afghan war), but it helped put U.S. warships safely in place for their “shock and awe” bombardment of Iraq.
- Helping Coordinate the Air War: Canadian military personnel worked aboard U.S. E-3 Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) warplanes that directed the electronic air war by coordinating the flight paths of U.S. bombers and fighters in their destructive sorties over Iraq. - Diplomatic Support: Then-Prime Minister Chrétien supported the “right” of the U.S. to invade Iraq, although Kofi Annan said it was an illegal occupation. Chrétien also criticised Canadian citizens who dared to question the war. Chrétien said protesters gave comfort to Saddam Hussein.
- Providing War Planners: At least two dozen Canadian war planners working at U.S. Central Command in Florida were transferred to the Persian Gulf in early 2003 to help oversee the complicated logistics of the Iraq war.
- Freeing up U.S. Troops: Fifteen thousand Canadian troops, 20 Canadian warships and several Canadian warplanes have helped wage the Afghan war. In fact, Canada has been leading the occupation. Canada’s major role was helpful in freeing up U.S. troops for deployment to Iraq.
- Providing Airspace & Refuelling: U.S. troop and equipment transport aircraft have flown over Canada to and from the Iraq war and many have refuelled in Newfoundland.
- Providing Ground Troops: At least 35 Canadian soldiers were directly under U.S. command, in an ‘exchange’ capacity, on the ground, during the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
- Providing Air Transport: At least three Canadian CC-130 military transport planes were listed by the U.S. military as helping supply coalition forces during the Iraq war.
- Testing Weapons & Drones: Two types of cruise missiles (AGM-86 and -129) and the “Global Hawk” (RQ-4A) surveillance drone, used in Iraq, were tested over Canada.
- Military Exports: Canada annually sells billions of dollars worth of military goods and services to the U.S.. Press for Conversion! (#52), identified about 100 Canadian companies selling parts and/or services for major weapons systems used during the current Iraq war. SNC-TEC, a major Quebec-based ammunition manufacturer, has sold millions of bullets to the U.S. military forces that are occupying Iraq.
- CPP Investments: Through the Canada Pension Plan, Canadians are forced to invest in the 16 of the world’s top 20 war industries. These include arms producers supplying the U.S.-led war/occupation of Iraq, and the leading prime contractors for the “missile defense” weapons program.

We don't vote for the same idiot twice and then want to impeach him.

Even Nancy Pelosi has stated she's not interested in impeaching the President for crying out loud. Granted, there are a few, but then I suppose you find a completely empty parliament more appealing? I don't see how. Shxx, at least our representatives show up to work some of the time.

Citing socio-economic issues and trying to draw the conclusion that this is somehow a "red-state" problem is patently absurd. This entire anomoly has been run through the gamete and people can't even conclude whether or not polarization of this magnitude even exists outside of media hype. Don't believe me? Review polling data on election results. They're a lot tighter than any Red/Blue State data could even begin to interpret.

Non-story.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

Myabe I get it from all the anti-US posts you make, almost on a daily basis.

I wouldn't stress too much about it brother. He's obviously got no idea what global capacity his own country serves, let alone another country. This is the second time I've heard this week; "well at least we're not invading...bla,bla,bla" Believe me, when it comes to invading other countries we friggin' LOVE those guys to the north!



CANADA!!!

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

Myabe I get it from all the anti-US posts you make, almost on a daily basis.

Tell me, are you so fixated with the US because you wish you lived in the States? Do you attack religious figures because you wish you had faith? Is it some type of envy, or just a curiosity with how the "other half" lives? Many people around here have wondered about this for some time.

I'll be happy to tell you why but you won't remember it the next time you ask or believe it but here goes...

1) The stupid ****ing **** the US does affects Canada in a negative way. The warS, environmental damage, trade, travel, businesses, foreign policy, etc, etc.

2) American religious groups run campaigns and ads to block gay marriage IN CANADA! What right do American groups have to tell our public and government what rights our citizens should have? None, keep your hate campaigns to your "Land of the free".

3) I have been offered to live in the US and no way in hell would I ever want to in the condition it is in currently. I have things veeeeeery good up here.

Does that solve the great mystery for you and the "many people around here"? Was it everything you hoped for?

[Dr Reducto]

Originally Posted by itai195 

Okay, this deserves a lengthier explanation. Which Republican policies help the poor escape poverty?

Lowering taxes, and less social benefits create an incentive to work, and keep more of their money. Also, the attitudes of responsibility for one's actions (despite that Bush hasn't shown this one very much) tend to legitimize success and failure (if you become rich, it's because you worked hard, and if you became poor, it's because you were lazy).

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Even Nancy Pelosi has stated she's not interested in impeaching the President for crying out loud. Granted, there are a few

53% of the American public. Ya that's a few alright

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Dr Reducto 

if you become rich, it's because you worked hard, and if you became poor, it's because you were lazy.

If that were true, then teachers and EMTs would be the pillars of our economy. Unfortunately, working hard does not mean you're rich, nor does being lazy make you poor.

As usual, Democrats and Republicans are thinking in extremities. The Democrats want more social programs and the Republicans want lower taxes (though, not to help the poor). Unfortunately, both Democrats and Republicans want their programs to go through at the expense of the middle class.

Rich or poor, they both have the lowest taxes to net-wealth ratio. It's the middle class who get thoroughly raped by our current tax system.

The end result (taxes and social programs alike) is the elimination of the middle class, and a greater polarization of rich and poor. For the Democrats, the poor rely on them and give them the vote. For the Republicans, the rich rely on them and give them the vote. The Republicans have the advantage in that, regardless of votes, money eventually wins.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Rich or poor, they both have the lowest taxes to net-wealth ratio.

This is what I don't understand: are we supposed to deliberately raise taxes on the wealthy until it literally hurts them? The top 25% pay 84 % of the taxes. They pay their fair share. Just because they have enough wealth not to suffer because of it doesn't mean it's not enough.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

53% of the American public. Ya that's a few alright

I heard the jury is still out on these "percentages."

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

If that were true, then teachers and EMTs would be the pillars of our economy. Unfortunately, working hard does not mean you're rich, nor does being lazy make you poor.

What you are talking about has nothing to do with work, it has to do with choices. You are trying to correct an over-generalization with another over-generalization.

ANYONE in this country CAN become rich through hard work IF they make the correct choices. Choosing to be a teacher is a stupid idea for someone who wants to be rich.

And I don't know what YOU are talking about but being lazy does indeed make you poor. (unless you are born wealthy or something)

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

53% of the American public. Ya that's a few alright

That's funny. Let me see if I can bring some light in behind that Dark Helmet;

Zobgy International poll commissioned by AfterDowningStreet.org, a grassroots coalition that supports a Congressional investigation of President Bush's decision to invade Iraq in 2003.;

"If President Bush wiretapped American citizens without the approval of a judge, do you agree or disagree that Congress should consider holding him accountable through impeachment."

This is nothing more than another approval ratings poll in disguise. The poll indicates if it is found the President has wiretapped American citizens without the approval of a judge, should Congress consider holding him accountable through impeachment? Absolutely. If it is ever found that a Constitutional tenet has been violated by the office of the Presidency, it is Congress' job to consider impeachment as a means of accountability. Unfortunately, the consideration would not get far in light of the fact that he was acting in accordance with policy drafted in the 70's by the Carter Administration.

In fact, a New York Times/CBS News poll found that Americans were willing to give the administration some latitude for its surveillance program if they believed it was intended to protect them. (as reported by NY Times) 53% of the respondents said they supported eavesdropping without warrants "in order to reduce the threat of terrorism." In one striking finding, respondents overwhelmingly supported e-mail and telephone monitoring directed at "Americans that the government is suspicious of;" they overwhelmingly opposed the same kind of surveillance if it was aimed at "ordinary Americans."

Gee, I thought polls were the alpha and omega of truth, but what if they give completely conflicting results?

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I heard the jury is still out on these "percentages."

Worse, one could say the "jury" was a little manipulated. It's important to consider who commissions these polls and in the case of Dark Helmet's choice of polls, he's decided to go with one commissioned by AfterDowningStreet.org, a grassroots coalition that supports a Congressional investigation of President Bush's decision to invade Iraq in 2003.

a little more predictable than accurate I'd say.

I cited one produced by NY Times/CBS News that basically shows the exact opposite data when the question separates "ordinary Americans" from "suspicious ones" and both are referring to wiretapping without judge's approval/warrant.

[Dark Helmet]

ebuddy posts are so funny

[DuckRacer1]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

We don't vote for the same idiot twice and then want to impeach him.

You can't blame us for having a seriously crappy selection of presidential candidates. Al Gore has a personality of a pet fly, and John Kerry is an ass. Bush is the lesser of the two (or in this case three) evils.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

Oh, I figured since you were painting with such a broad brush that other people could take pot-shots at your country too. Just seems right, no? I find it humorous that you pay more attention to the US than you do to your own country.

So, let's see the numbers for ethnicity, race, and financial background. Might as well see the whole picture, not just the parts some people feel like showing.

LOL this was a pot shot at the United States? Looked like it was more a pollitical shot from between the Left and Right, I think you are the confused.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

Myabe I get it from all the anti-US posts you make, almost on a daily basis.

Tell me, are you so fixated with the US because you wish you lived in the States? Do you attack religious figures because you wish you had faith? Is it some type of envy, or just a curiosity with how the "other half" lives? Many people around here have wondered about this for some time.

lol What was Anti US in this post?

[Athens]

[QUOTE=Dark Helmet;3192248]
2) American religious groups run campaigns and ads to block gay marriage IN CANADA! What right do American groups have to tell our public and government what rights our citizens should have? None, keep your hate campaigns to your "Land of the free".
[QUOTE]

Ya that point 2 has me pissed off, American religious creeps can stay the hell out. I got some mail the other week from some Florida based group, like WTF why are they sending the garbage all the way here.

[TheWOAT]

Originally Posted by itai195 

Then why are they voting for Republicans?

Poor whites vote republican ... because.... uhhh.... I have no great guess, but I imagine it has soemthing to do with Democrats not being "American" enough for some people. Gun control might be another sticky point... Hillary Clinton doesnt help either.

[Kevin]

SWG got so pwnt.

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

If the blue states are sinkholes of moral decay, as right-wing pundits insist, how come red states lead the nation in violent crime, divorce, illegitimacy, and incarceration, among other evils? To a bus-riding innocent on Manhattan's stroller-filled Upper West Side, it looks like a case of hypocrisy meets stupidity.

Did you see the part about leaving straw men at the door before you came in here?

Find me where someone that is a "right-wing pundit" calls blue states sinkholes of moral decay. Or something of the sort.

Please...

And someone saying that San Francisco is teh gay doesn't count.

[Kevin]

SWG just hates America. He always prides himself of having the "best" of things. And since he only lives in Canada he has an insecurity complex.

I'm jokkiing.. eeeyyym jooookiiing.

[turtle777]

Uhm, correlation != causation ?

Ah, never mind, you wouldn't understand.

-t

[King Bob On The Cob]

But these are minor-league hypocrisies, as much a by-product of male prerogative as of Republican humbug.

I stopped reading right there.

"OMG THE MEN ARE PUTTING ME DOWN AND ARE HYPOCRITES!"

[itai195]

Originally Posted by TheWOAT 

Poor whites vote republican ... because.... uhhh.... I have no great guess, but I imagine it has soemthing to do with Democrats not being "American" enough for some people. Gun control might be another sticky point... Hillary Clinton doesnt help either.

The tendency to vote against their own economic interests is what leads many Democrats to take a condescending attitude toward the intelligence of some of these people. But in actuality of course, all poor people who vote Republican are not necessarily uneducated, just as...

Originally Posted by Dr Reducto

Lowering taxes, and less social benefits create an incentive to work, and keep more of their money. Also, the attitudes of responsibility for one's actions (despite that Bush hasn't shown this one very much) tend to legitimize success and failure (if you become rich, it's because you worked hard, and if you became poor, it's because you were lazy).

.. all poor people are not necessarily lazy.

[TheWOAT]

Originally Posted by itai195 

The tendency to vote against their own economic interests is what leads many Democrats to take a condescending attitude toward the intelligence of some of these people. But in actuality of course, all poor people who vote Republican are not necessarily uneducated, just as...

.. all poor people are not necessarily lazy.

I try not to vote for my own personal interests because I dont see how that is even remotely possible (in my current financial situation). If I owned stocks/bonds or had no medical insurance, then Id have some incentive to vote one way. AS it stands now, neither party can do much for me, so they deserve not my vote.
I have family members who are poor and vote Democrat all of the time, yet they are still poor. If they had voted Republican odds are they would ....drum roll please... still be poor. It makes no goddamn difference.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by itai195 

Okay, this deserves a lengthier explanation. Which Republican policies help the poor escape poverty?

Well, when you can't pay for food, you die of hunger. Once you die, you go to heaven. Since there is no poverty in Heaven, you have escape poverty.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

SWG just hates America. He always prides himself of having the "best" of things. And since he only lives in Canada he has an insecurity complex.

I'm jokkiing.. eeeyyym jooookiiing.

vmarks, Kevin is insulting SWG. It deserves an infraction.

[TheWOAT]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Well, when you can't pay for food, you die of hunger. Once you die, you go to heaven. Since there is no poverty in Heaven, you have escape poverty.

When you can't pay for food, you charge it... or you apply for food stamps.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by TheWOAT 

When you can't pay for food, you charge it... or you apply for food stamps.

Food stamps! The horror. Food stamps and welfare needs to be abolish. We Republicans can't have that.