[Jolt21]

ok, so more important to me that the actual elections, were the issues being voted in every state.

English as an official language in Arizona? Does any state have an "official" language? That was a straight jab at Latinos, and i think it will bring up issues later

Votes to legalize an ounce of marijuana went on in like 3 states yesterday...all were rejected, but one state was very close. Come on guys! we are almost there!!!


And my biggest issue/worry: Proposition 2 was favored in Michigan, banning all colleges and areas of work to discriminate based on race...basically calling an end to Affirmative Action in that states public schools...which really sucks because UMich is a pretty good school for some subjects and now blacks will have to miss out on that.

I am African-American and its funny because all of the articles/editorials/etc. that i read regarding Proposition 2 and similar issues are written by causaians. I mean, i understand that it does affect them (hell, i look white. i am half italian and half haitian, but grew up with the haitain side all my life so consider myself that more) and such because it makes it harder for them to compete against a less than equally qualified black candidate, but my experiences with african-american culture lead me to believe that AA has done SOOO much for the communities. You have so many first generation black college students who were able to go to their dream school and even though their credentials might be less than average, but it gave them the stepping stone needed to keep getting better and hopefully their children can go to equally just as great schools with the right credentials.

as much as some caucasians might not get into their dreams schools because "some black kid took his spot", i dont feel like it would affect them as much because there are so many opprotunities out there today for them to keep at it.

as a minority currently in the ivy league, i dont know if i got in on AA (i dont know because i was in the top 5% of my class and the only black kid, but i murdered my ACTs and courses), but I hope AA stays because i feel like it is the one time in a black person's life where they can get that edge and think highly of themselves. Racism still exists today and I am experiencing that more than ever by living in NY this term, so I really dont see how the average african-american can get that edge otherwise (there are a couple of exceptions, but you get my points)

any and all opinions are welcome.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Jolt21 

English as an official language in Arizona?

Good.

Originally Posted by Jolt21 

Votes to legalize an ounce of marijuana

Good.

Originally Posted by Jolt21 

Proposition 2 was favored in Michigan, banning all colleges and areas of work to discriminate based on race

I'd like to see affirmative action ended everywhere but schools (where it should start being reduced).

[smacintush]

What do you think of the evidence of a higher drop-out/failure rate due to black students being AA'd into schools they wouldn't otherwise qualify for?

I'm for legalizing drug possession. I support a persons right to be a f*cking retarded stoner.

If making English an official language brings up "issues" later I say let them come up. Despite all the political rhetoric the problem isn't latinos, it's latinos who sneak in illegally. I see no reason to make one single effort whatsoever to accommodate these people.

[Jolt21]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

I'd like to see affirmative action ended everywhere but schools (where it should start being reduced).

at my school, it is actually very low even though they try to make it high. accepting african americans is one thing, but getting them to come is even harder. for most, you are making them work harder, spend more money, and introducing them to a different society. so if it was reduced, it might be even worse. we have on average 70 blacks per class of 4,200. isn't that kind of bad? can you imagine if it was lower?

[Jolt21]

oh yea, i support the English thing also...i actually think it is pretty funny.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Jolt21 

we have on average 70 blacks per class of 4,200. isn't that kind of bad? can you imagine if it was lower?

Gotta start worrying about their primary education. That gets better, so will their post-secondary numbers.

[Jolt21]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

What do you think of the evidence of a higher drop-out/failure rate due to black students being AA'd into schools they wouldn't otherwise qualify for?

shouldn't be the school's fault. they tried to help, but if the student just couldn't handle it, then godspeed in whatever they decide to do. all i believe is that an initial hand should be given. i feel that it is up to the students to keep it up once they get into about halfway through their first year.

i am a junior and i hate it when i see administrative offices makes changes for the african americans of my class cause they still dont think the african-americans can hang with the rest.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Jolt21 

shouldn't be the school's fault. they tried to help, but if the student just couldn't handle it, then godspeed in whatever they decide to do. all i believe is that an initial hand should be given. i feel that it is up to the students to keep it up once they get into about halfway through their first year.

i am a junior and i hate it when i see administrative offices makes changes for the african americans of my class cause they still dont think the african-americans can hang with the rest.

The point is, that often by putting them into schools that are above where they really should be they fail or give up and NEVER FINISH, never move on to a more appropriate school. Whereas in cases where they end up in schools where they belong according to their true ability they have a much higher success rate.

You don't see that as a serious problem?

[Jolt21]

no, becausekids can drop out and transfer to the school that is fit for them if they just want to be average. i've seen it happen many times. it is up to the school and the student to make sure that they do something other than jsut drop out....if they do just drop out, then there was something else going on.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Jolt21 

no, becausekids can drop out and transfer to the school that is fit for them if they just want to be average. i've seen it happen many times. it is up to the school and the student to make sure that they do something other than jsut drop out....if they do just drop out, then there was something else going on.

Geez, it's not a matter of WANTING to be average. If you aren't smart enough to go to an Ivy league school then, there really are only two outcomes: You fail, or you leave school before you fail. In this case they are not helped in any way, shape or form by being admitted. These places have a limited number of "seats" and when this type of nonsense goes on then that seat is wasted on someone who didn't belong there to begin with. That is one more place that the RIGHT student COULD have filled.

[King Bob On The Cob]

Why not fix affirmative action for what it's supposed to be? A way for socially or economically challenged folks to get back on their feet. Not all blacks are socially or economically challenged anymore, but they still get the same treatment. I'd personally like to see the end of white trash trailer parks as well as inner city ghettos, and if you ask me, it's the same goal.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Jolt21 

And my biggest issue/worry: Proposition 2 was favored in Michigan, banning all colleges and areas of work to discriminate based on race...basically calling an end to Affirmative Action in that states public schools...which really sucks because UMich is a pretty good school for some subjects and now blacks will have to miss out on that.

<knee-jerk> That must mean you're for discriminating based on race, huh?</knee-jerk>

I'm all for colleges taking things other than raw school performance and test scores into account when admitting students, but I feel that instituting policies based on race (whether you call them quotas or not) is a big no-no. I'm all for taking someone's history into account. Given two candidates with comparable test scores, one who lived a pampered life in the suburbs and who was never really challenged, and the other who went to a more disadvantaged program and had to fight and claw to get access to higher-level courses, I would prefer the second candidate myself. But what does that have to do with race, exactly?

I grew up in what most people would call an inner-city neighborhood in Brooklyn. I knew what it was like to be the only white guy in my class -- quite the opposite of what most white kids experience growng up. I was intelligent, but so was the black guy sitting next to me in class. Is it fair to give him an advantage over me just because of the color of his skin, even though we had the exact same background and conditions growing up?

[olePigeon]

I think we need to move to an anonymous process. Names, age, race, sex, and SSN is withheld until after processing. Students would be admitted based on merit alone (if that were even possible.)

Sorry, but you're only fooling yourselves if you think that racism and biggotry in general aren't still issues with more prestigious universities where names, sororites, and fraternities mean everything.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I think we need to move to an anonymous process. Names, age, race, sex, and SSN is withheld until after processing. Students would be admitted based on merit alone (if that were even possible.)

That would be an excellent system. Admission due to intelligence is the way it should be.

[Shaddim]

TN voted in a Constitutional ban on gay marriage. It's sad how much the Democrats pushed for it.

[Rumor]

It makes one think the party system is skewered.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Jolt21 

English as an official language in Arizona? Does any state have an "official" language? That was a straight jab at Latinos, and i think it will bring up issues later

Votes to legalize an ounce of marijuana went on in like 3 states yesterday...all were rejected, but one state was very close. Come on guys! we are almost there!!!

calling an end to Affirmative Action in that states public schools...

[Jolt21]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

That would be an excellent system. Admission due to intelligence is the way it should be.

that would be a terrible system.

diversity would be non-existant and unless you ventured out of your social norm when you were a child, you would be oblivious to the real world. if that happened, all the prestigious colleges would be filled with 1600 SAT, 4.0 GPA, National Honor Society kids...black or white it would be bad

it is more than just academics, college is about an experience. how do you expect to have some sort of experience if everyone is just like you? they need to look at things like sex, age, race, etc..

and they need to look at history like someone stated before. basically, they need to look at EVERYTHING


and what oleP said is right. i am in a fraternity, my girlfriend is in a sorority, and i go to a prestegious school. racism and sexism are everywhere....however...college is the point at which a lot of people get hit with how real racism is, and they learn about it and change their ways. of course some people dont, but if you can introduce a new world to one student, you have succeeded.

[Jolt21]

Originally Posted by King Bob On The Cob 

Why not fix affirmative action for what it's supposed to be? A way for socially or economically challenged folks to get back on their feet. Not all blacks are socially or economically challenged anymore, but they still get the same treatment. I'd personally like to see the end of white trash trailer parks as well as inner city ghettos, and if you ask me, it's the same goal.

this would be the ideal solution...i agree

[Rumor]

Being admitted to a prestigious college should be based on merit and intelligence, not race.

[turtle777]

What about Spanish speaking marijuana in AZ ?

-t

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Jolt21 

that would be a terrible system.

diversity would be non-existant and unless you ventured out of your social norm when you were a child, you would be oblivious to the real world. if that happened, all the prestigious colleges would be filled with 1600 SAT, 4.0 GPA, National Honor Society kids...black or white it would be bad

Yes, we should make sure that our colleges cater to the lowest common denominator.

Whatever. This statement is evidence that you belong in community college.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Jolt21 

the prestigious colleges would be filled with 1600 SAT, 4.0 GPA, National Honor Society kids...black or white it would be bad

There's a reason they're considered prestigious colleges. Wanna guess why?

[Jolt21]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

There's a reason they're considered prestigious colleges. Wanna guess why?

because of what the kids do when they get out too...come on now

[Jolt21]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Yes, we should make sure that our colleges cater to the lowest common denominator.

Whatever. This statement is evidence that you belong in community college.

i'm not saying take the crack dealers and stuff off the street and put them in Yale or something. I'm saying if the person has like a 1500 instead of a 1600, but through his essays, attitude, and interview you think he can contribute to the community, then take him.

and way to just resort to personal attacks. real mature of you.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Jolt21 

because of what the kids do when they get out too...come on now

Because they're filled with the cream of the crop.

[Jolt21]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

Because they're filled with the cream of the crop.

but if prestigious school are called that...yet they have had AA for these past years, and still considered that, why take it away?

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Jolt21 

and way to just resort to personal attacks. real mature of you.

Maturity is overrated.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Jolt21 

yet they have had AA for these past years, and still considered that, why take it away?

Because sooner or later they need to make it on their own merit... and because sooner or later people will start equating a black man that went Yale with an Affirmative Action admission.

[Jolt21]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

Because sooner or later they need to make it on their own merit... and because sooner or later people will start equating a black man that went Yale with an Affirmative Action admission.

they already do both of those. the school can only do so much, it is up to the student to make a name for him/herself as well. if someone thinks the only way i got in is AA, i can easily prove him wrong with merit. for someone who actually got in on AA, hopefully in the long run they can do something for themselves.

it is like that reebok commercial (i think it is reebok), where they ask Peyton Manning "When did you know?", and he said "When they stopped calling me Archie's boy, and started calling me Peyton"

it takes the individual to break out of the AA bubble. and after working in the admissions office, i can tell you that the school TRIES to get people who they think will be able to do that (but yes, they do fail sometimes which leads to the drop out rate). but if the student doesn't think he/she can make it out of the bubble, hopefully he/she will consider not going to that school.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Jolt21 

they already do both of those.

That's right, but no one knows who's who.

Edit: People are going to assume what they want, and the longer Affirmative Action goes, the more ill-will it's going to breed (IMO).

Sooner or later it needs to go. I don't think it should disappear overnight, but phasing it out over a generation is probably the way to go.

[Jolt21]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

Sooner or later it needs to go. I don't think it should disappear overnight, but phasing it out over a generation is probably the way to go.

i 100% agree with that. in this day and age is it a less needed than before, but still needed none the less.

when people become mixed with a million different races, that you just cant tell anymore what someone is and racism has begun its decline, then it wont matter anymore.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Jolt21 

I am African-American and its funny because all of the articles/editorials/etc. that i read regarding Proposition 2 and similar issues are written by causaians.

Townhall.com::Columnists::Walter E. Williams

Townhall.com::Columnists::Thomas Sowell

Search both of these guys on the subject, and they can explain it pretty well. Better than I can, for sure.

[typoon]

I think the state propositions was more indicative of the American people. they were sick of the repubs but people are generally conservative.