[Rumor]

Democracy Now! | High-Flying Profiling: Six Muslim Leaders Removed in Handcuffs From US Airways Plane After Praying in Airport

Supposedly it was for praying, which shows how paranoid people are these days.

According to Imam Omar Shahin, president of the North American Imams Federation, the FBI and local police were notified that they were attending a conference and would be traveling together.

He also states that he was upgraded to first class for being a frequent flyer.

It sounds as if one paranoid passenger falsified their claim that this group was making anti-US comments.

[MacNStein]

That's uncalled for and only makes matters worse.

[marden]

I agree. What are Modern Muslims going to do to prevent people from fearing that some Jihadis might try to kill them?

[Kevin]

Over-reaction indeed. Someone should get slapped for this. The victims apologized to and compensated for their troubles.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by marden 

I agree. What are Modern Muslims going to do to prevent people from fearing that some Jihadis might try to kill them?

I'm not sure that they can. The common American can't ever tell the difference between an Iraqi and a Afgani, let alone a Modern Muslim and a Extremist Muslim.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Over-reaction indeed. Someone should get slapped for this. The victims apologized to and compensated for their troubles.

Yeah, but it's going to be difficult to find all the thousands of commuters that were in the airport at the time - in order to compensate them.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Over-reaction indeed. Someone should get slapped for this. The victims apologized to and compensated for their troubles.

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Yeah, but it's going to be difficult to find all the thousands of commuters that were in the airport at the time - in order to compensate them.

Originally Posted by marden

I agree. What are Modern Muslims going to do to prevent people from fearing that some Jihadis might try to kill them?

Originally Posted by Rumor 

I'm not sure that they can. The common American can't ever tell the difference between an Iraqi and a Afgani, let alone a Modern Muslim and a Extremist Muslim.

I bet not even you can easily tell the difference between a jihadi and someone who isn't.

It seems Modern Muslims might be the ones most at risk of this problem continuing. So unless they try to curb the jihadist activities in their own populations then there are going to be some non-Muslim Americans who may misinterpret innocent praying as a potential threat.

And to those who say that Muslim populations ARE cooperating with law enforcement to discourage and or report potential jihadists in their midsts, it's too bad that their fine efforts must be kept quiet for fear of retribution by the violent jihadists or would be jihadists in their midsts.

That speaks to the level of belief among the Muslim community of the threat posed by violent jihad.

[Wiskedjak]

Abe is saying that the victims in this case are the ones at fault.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Abe is saying that the victims in this case are the ones at fault.

It seems some people just naturally find the victimhood angle in any situation.

By the way, are you a member of Jesse Jackson's Rainbow Coalition, Wiskedjak?



signed,

marden

[Kevin]

marden this was clearly an over-reaction.

[Rumor]

I was thinking about this and something occured to me.

If a group of people were going to do something on a plane, why would they talk about it in English?

Knowing the current state of things regarding Muslims, why make anti-US remarks in English?

Either they person that reported it was lying (good possibility) or he spoke the same language they did, in which case he should have been pulled from the plane also, yes?

[marden]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

I was thinking about this and something occured to me.

If a group of people were going to do something on a plane, why would they talk about it in English?

Knowing the current state of things regarding Muslims, why make anti-US remarks in English?

Either they person that reported it was lying (good possibility) or he spoke the same language they did, in which case he should have been pulled from the plane also, yes?

I hate to say this, but I can imagine a dumb or dumb & well meaning American doing it.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by marden 

I hate to say this, but I can imagine a dumb or dumb & well meaning American doing it.

That's who I figured said it.

Their fear and paranoia regarding Muslims was so strong that they made a false claim to get them off the airplane.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

That's who I figured said it.

Their fear and paranoia regarding Muslims was so strong that they made a false claim to get them off the airplane.

Yup. It's possible.

So, back to my question.

What are Modern Muslims going to do to prevent people from fearing that some Jihadis might try to kill them?

[Rumor]

I can't answer that since I am not a Modern Muslim.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

I can't answer that since I am not a Modern Muslim.

What do you THINK can be done?

[Macrobat]

Sorry, but the simple passing of time and revealing of the facts shows that this was not "uncalled for" and not an over-reaction.

The imams engaged in an active form of "civil disbedience." They asked for seatbelt extensions, although not one of them is overweight, then placed them on the floor near their seats. Seatbelt extenders have been used in past hijackings to join the belots of seats across the aisle from each other as a blocking point, and they are rather nasty weapons in their own right, with the heavy metal buckle and receiver ends. They moved to seats other than those they were assigned, assuming the []exact[/i] known locations of the 9/11 hijackers (2 in First Class, by that exit door, 2 mid-plane at that exit and 2 at the rear exit). Numerous passenger and crew accounts say they were speaking loudly with anti-American, anti-Bush rhetoric and criticizing the Saddam verdict. One of the men repeatedly left his seat in First Class to walk to the 2 at the rear of the plane and back.

In short, FAR from a band of innocents simply praying and persecuted for it, these 6 deliberately set out to incite just the response they got.

They ignored the numerous requests from aircrew to cease their behaviors.

More than 20 pilots - all from other airlines - have weighed in at this point to say they would have reacted the EXACT same way.

Hope this answers your question, Rumor. This was all theatre, staged by these men in a form of protest, in hopes of getting this "flying while Muslim" thing some publicity.

The simple fact of the matter is that these things do not happen otherwise, or they would receive the same amount of news coverage. This should be the first clue for thinking persons that something is amiss here.

[Rumor]

Where did you find that information?

[marden]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

Sorry, but the simple passing of time and revealing of the facts shows that this was not "uncalled for" and not an over-reaction.

The imams engaged in an active form of "civil disbedience." They asked for seatbelt extensions, although not one of them is overweight, then placed them on the floor near their seats. They moved to seats other than those they were assigned, assuming the []exact[/i] known locations of the 9/11 hijackers (2 in First Class, by that exit door, 2 mid-plane at that exit and 2 at the rear exit). Numerous passenger and crew accounts say they were speaking loudly with anti-American, anti-Bush rhetoric and criticizing the Saddam verdict. One of the men repeatedly left his seat in First Class to walk to the 2 at the rear of the plane and back.

In short, FAR from a band of innocents simply praying and persecuted for it, these 6 deliberately set out to incite just the response they got.

They ignored the numerous requests from aircrew to cease their behaviors.

More than 20 pilots - all from other airlines - have weighed in at this point to say they would have reacted the EXACT same way.

Hope this answers your question, Rumor. This was all theatre, staged by these men in a form of protest, in hopes of getting this "flying while Muslim" thing some publicity.

The simple fact of the matter is that these things do not happen otherwise, or they would receive the same amount of news coverage. This should be the first clue for thinking persons that something is amiss here.

Great research!!!!

[Sayf-Allah]

Didn't people read the link in the OP?

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

Didn't people read the link in the OP?

That link does only represent one side. At the time it was posted, that's all the information there was.

I'm interested in seeing what source Macrobat used.

[Rumor]

Interesting split on the right.

Macrobat thinks it was staged.

Marden happily agrees.

Kevin thinks it was uncalled for.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

That link does only represent one side. At the time it was posted, that's all the information there was.

I'm interested in seeing what source Macrobat used.

From the link provided in the OP:

I want to ask you about an article that appeared in the Washington Times yesterday. The article was headlined, “How the Imams Terrorized an Airliner.”

So there clearly was another source for information when you posted it.

[Macrobat]

Rumor, it's not "thinking or opining" when it's fact:

How the imams terrorized an airliner�-�Nation/Politics�-�The Washington Times, America's Newspaper

Several bloggers have picked up the ball and are investigating it, as well. The conference the Imams attended was all about this sort of civil disobedience and Shahin, the primary mover amongst the imams is well-known for his views stating that Muslims should engage in this type of behavior in order to eliminate what he terms "racial profiling."

It was nothing more sinister than civil disobedience, no terrorism was intended, but it had its desired effect.

[Sayf-Allah]

What this is, is simply that Muslims are today presumed guilty until proven innocent. The xenophobia has taken over like you can see from how certain posters here behave.

"bloggers are investigating"?

[Macrobat]

Laugh all you want, "Logic." It was the bloggers who exposed the fauxtography scandals, as well as caused Dan Rather's resignation over his fake documents. They are also at the forefront of the new propaganda reporting scandal, where the AP (among others) uses "unnamed sources" or blatantly false sources to publish "news" stories suh as the six Sunni immolation falsehood, that the Iraqi MoI says is blatantly false and the "Police Captain" they cite as their source is not now, nor has he EVER been employed as a police officer.

And you first sentence is PURE bovine scatology, since what we have seen in this instance is the EXACT opposite. The imams were given the benefit of the doubt by the press, now the facts are coming to light. MILLIONS of other Muslims and people of color fly EVERY SINGLE DAY without this sort of thing happening.

[MacNStein]

If the new information is true, then I agree with the airline's decision.

[Sky Captain]

You want to pray, fine.
You want to pray at a disturbing level as to call attention to yourself, stay off my plane.
I ultimately have the last say so on who can and can't board.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

From the link provided in the OP:



So there clearly was another source for information when you posted it.

I missed that.

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

Rumor, it's not "thinking or opining" when it's fact:

How the imams terrorized an airliner�-�Nation/Politics�-�The Washington Times, America's Newspaper

Several bloggers have picked up the ball and are investigating it, as well. The conference the Imams attended was all about this sort of civil disobedience and Shahin, the primary mover amongst the imams is well-known for his views stating that Muslims should engage in this type of behavior in order to eliminate what he terms "racial profiling."

It was nothing more sinister than civil disobedience, no terrorism was intended, but it had its desired effect.

Saying that the conference was about civil disobedience is kind of a broad statement, unless you know for a fact that it was about that.

I fail to see how annoying people on a plane will help eliminate racial profiling. It would seem to have the opposite effect.

I thought they couldn't racial profile anyways? When I flew to Puerto Rico, I got pulled aside and put through the ringer, but they let Johnny Taliban right on through.

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

If the new information is true, then I agree with the airline's decision.

Same here.

Originally Posted by Sky Captain 

You want to pray, fine.
You want to pray at a disturbing level as to call attention to yourself, stay off my plane.
I ultimately have the last say so on who can and can't board.

That's the nice thing about being in the drivers seat.

[Macrobat]

It has the same effect that the marches, sit-ins and speeches drew in the Civil Rights debate. Namely, to draw attention to their "plight." It also serves the underlying (possible) purpose of desensitizing the public and air officials to these behaviors. Problem is, these are the very behaviors engaged in by not only the 9/11 hijackers but documented hijackers before 9/11.

The only problem with this one is that it is completely fabricated.

If this were as commonplace as these imams and some apologists *cough* would lead you to believe, it would not be news in the first place.

[Sayf-Allah]

I haven't had time to read through this yet but perhaps some bloggers could investigate this and show us where the meeting was for civil disobedience.

http://www.imamsofamerica.com/NAIF2006.pdf

[MacNStein]

Doesn't matter what the meeting was for, only thing that matters is what they did when they got there.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

I haven't had time to read through this yet but perhaps some bloggers could investigate this and show us where the meeting was for civil disobedience.

http://www.imamsofamerica.com/NAIF2006.pdf

http://www.washtimes.com/functions/p...8-122902-7522r

Witnesses said three of the imams were praying loudly in the concourse and repeatedly shouted “Allah” when passengers were called for boarding US Airways Flight 300 to Phoenix.

Passengers and flight attendants told law-enforcement officials the imams switched from their assigned seats to a pattern associated with the September 11 terrorist attacks and also found in probes of U.S. security since the attacks — two in the front row first-class, two in the middle of the plane on the exit aisle and two in the rear of the cabin.

“That would alarm me,” said a federal air marshal who asked to remain anonymous. “They now control all of the entry and exit routes to the plane.”

A pilot from another airline said: “That behavior has been identified as a terrorist probe in the airline industry.”

According to witnesses, police reports and aviation security officials, the imams displayed other suspicious behavior. Three of the men asked for seat-belt extenders, although two flight attendants told police the men were not oversized. One flight attendant told police she “found this unsettling, as crew knew about the six [passengers] on board and where they were sitting.” Rather than attach the extensions, the men placed the straps and buckles on the cabin floor, the flight attendant said.

The imams said they were not discussing politics and only spoke in English, but witnesses told law enforcement that the men spoke in Arabic and English, criticizing the war in Iraq and President Bush, and talking about al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden.

The imams who claimed two first-class seats said their tickets were upgraded. The gate agent told police that when the imams asked to be upgraded, they were told no such seats were available. Nevertheless, the two men were seated in first class when removed. A flight attendant said one of the men made two trips to the rear of the plane to talk to the imam during boarding, and again when the flight was delayed because of their behavior. Aviation officials, including air marshals and pilots, said these actions alone would not warrant a second look, but the combination is suspicious.

[ink]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

Supposedly it was for praying, which shows how paranoid people are these days.

I flew into Houston Hobby a few weeks ago and noticed that they had a non-denominational airport chapel. I was wondering why on earth they would need a chapel in an airport.

Now I know.

[marden]

Originally Posted by ink 

I flew into Houston Hobby a few weeks ago and noticed that they had a non-denominational airport chapel. I was wondering why on earth they would need a chapel in an airport.

Now I know.

Uhhh, that's not the ONLY reason.

Think some more, dude.

[ink]

Originally Posted by marden 

Uhhh, that's not the ONLY reason.

Think some more, dude.

Hmm, I've never had an issue with talking to God while slunk down in an airport seat. I don't see the need for all the pomp and circumstance; but for those that need it, you have a place in Houston Hobby.

If you goal is to make a political statement in a public place, then you're probably not going to retire to a private chapel anyway, so...

[marden]

Originally Posted by ink 

Hmm, I've never had an issue with talking to God while slunk down in an airport seat. I don't see the need for all the pomp and circumstance; but for those that need it, you have a place in Houston Hobby.

If you goal is to make a political statement in a public place, then you're probably not going to retire to a private chapel anyway, so...

When planes have accidents before they get to their destination you have to have a place for the loved ones awaiting passengers, who will never arrive, to go and pray.

Every major airport has one. They are not advertised but they are there just in case the worst happens. Just as every hospital has one.

[ink]

Originally Posted by marden 

When planes have accidents before they get to their destination you have to have a place for the loved ones awaiting passengers, who will never arrive, to go and pray.

Every major airport has one. They are not advertised but they are there just in case the worst happens. Just as every hospital has one.

I've never seen a public one at any other airport, but that could just be ignorance on my part.

I've been to quite a few airports.

And if they are at every airport, then surely those of a Muslim faith could go there to pray?

[vmarks]

They really are in every airport.

In RDU, it's across from the baggage claim, near the info desk.

In Indiapolis, the one is also near the info desk, but a floor above baggage claim, if I recall.

The Pluralism Project: talks about how they are commonplace, first one established in Boston 50 years ago.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

Doesn't matter what the meeting was for, only thing that matters is what they did when they got there.

Agreed. But according to those "bloggers" that are investigating this the meeting was about civil disobedience (see macrobats post).

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

How the imams terrorized an airliner -- The Washington Times

Witnesses said three of the imams were praying loudly in the concourse and repeatedly shouted “Allah” when passengers were called for boarding US Airways Flight 300 to Phoenix.

Passengers and flight attendants told law-enforcement officials the imams switched from their assigned seats to a pattern associated with the September 11 terrorist attacks and also found in probes of U.S. security since the attacks — two in the front row first-class, two in the middle of the plane on the exit aisle and two in the rear of the cabin.

“That would alarm me,” said a federal air marshal who asked to remain anonymous. “They now control all of the entry and exit routes to the plane.”

A pilot from another airline said: “That behavior has been identified as a terrorist probe in the airline industry.”

According to witnesses, police reports and aviation security officials, the imams displayed other suspicious behavior. Three of the men asked for seat-belt extenders, although two flight attendants told police the men were not oversized. One flight attendant told police she “found this unsettling, as crew knew about the six [passengers] on board and where they were sitting.” Rather than attach the extensions, the men placed the straps and buckles on the cabin floor, the flight attendant said.

The imams said they were not discussing politics and only spoke in English, but witnesses told law enforcement that the men spoke in Arabic and English, criticizing the war in Iraq and President Bush, and talking about al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden.

The imams who claimed two first-class seats said their tickets were upgraded. The gate agent told police that when the imams asked to be upgraded, they were told no such seats were available. Nevertheless, the two men were seated in first class when removed. A flight attendant said one of the men made two trips to the rear of the plane to talk to the imam during boarding, and again when the flight was delayed because of their behavior. Aviation officials, including air marshals and pilots, said these actions alone would not warrant a second look, but the combination is suspicious.

Already been posted. Read the thread next time, mkay?

[typoon]

The Pilot was within his rights once they moved into that configuration. No apology should have been given.

I wonder where the ACLU or Al "No Justice No Peace" Sharpton are on this matter?

[Troll]

What are Christians going to do to prevent people from fearing that some weird Christian cult member might try to kill them?

What are Catholics going to do to prevent people from fearing that an Irish terrorist might try to kill them?

What are whites going to do to prevent people from fearing that the Ku Klux Klan might try to kill them?

What are blacks going to do to prevent people from fearing that some cocaine addict might try to kill them?

Honestly Marden, expecting Muslims to take responsibility for the actions of extremist terrorists is ridiculous. They are no more responsible for terrorist attacks than anyone else.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

They really are in every airport.

Well there aren't any in French airports - the whole separation of church and state thing.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Troll 

Well there aren't any in French airports - the whole separation of church and state thing.

Seperation of church and state doesn't enter into it, since there are airport chapels in US airports. Logically.

V

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Troll 

What are Christians going to do to prevent people from fearing that some weird Christian cult member might try to kill them?

Institute a government that aims to be secular, institute laws that dont give any "special treatment" to members of any faith including Christians. Oh wait.....

Originally Posted by Troll 

What are Catholics going to do to prevent people from fearing that an Irish terrorist might try to kill them?

Shouldnt that be "Catholic" terrorist ? last i checked the IRA was motivated by nationalist interests not religious. Either way....it's not the 80s anymore.... when was the last IRA attack on civilians anyway ?

Originally Posted by Troll 

What are whites going to do to prevent people from fearing that the Ku Klux Klan might try to kill them?

Give them the right to have an opinion, but also reserve the right to disagree with them by shunning them from other aspects of society and politics. the majority of "Whites"(and blacks) have spoken.... hence Whites dont own black slaves in 2006.

Originally Posted by Troll 

What are blacks going to do to prevent people from fearing that some cocaine addict might try to kill them?

Black != cocaine addict. so i dont know where the correlation lies. if you are born black, does that mean u have more of a tendency to become a cocaine addict, or is that a vice succeptable to people of any race ? Oh and last i checked Black-cocaine-addicts dont have an organization whos sole purpose is to kill people.

Originally Posted by Troll 

Honestly Marden, expecting Muslims to take responsibility for the actions of extremist terrorists is ridiculous. They are no more responsible for terrorist attacks than anyone else.

Preach equality between peoples of ANY faith.... maybe then the people who base their lives on your teachings, wont have the urge to treat others like less than human. And be clear about it....dont leave the door open to opposing "interpretations".

Did God create religion or did man create God ? religion...the practice of basing your lives on a set of rules is determined by the people who choose to follow it. When you have a large group of people claiming their inspiration came from religion, you' think that the other followers would make the necessary adjustments to rectify the "loop hole", but instead you have bickering with no action.

My point is.... with the "Christians", "Catholics", KKK, etc...the change didnt just evolve out of nothing.... entire communities banded together to make changes for the better.... if it can be done in the Americas, S.Africa, India, Japan, Europe, etc...why cant anything be done in this community ? it can be done !...if they(the majority) wanted it to be done. do they want anything to be done ? and why arent they doing it ?

[red rocket]

Originally Posted by Troll

Well there aren't any in French airports - the whole separation of church and state thing.

That sounded odd to me, so I did some research.

Paris CDG Airport Terminal 2 Departure Facilities
The chapel is located in the Shops and Services Area, between Halls 2A, 2B, 2C & 2D, lower level. Sunday Mass at 10.15 & 14.30. Weekday services 12.15.

Paris Orly Airport Guide - Paris
There is a chapel in Terminal West and a chapel, a synagogue and a mosque in Terminal South.

Paris Beauvais Airport Guide - Paris

Beauvais doesn't appear to have a chapel, but the other two Paris airports do.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Troll 

What are Christians going to do to prevent people from fearing that some weird Christian cult member might try to kill them?

What are Catholics going to do to prevent people from fearing that an Irish terrorist might try to kill them?

What are whites going to do to prevent people from fearing that the Ku Klux Klan might try to kill them?

What are blacks going to do to prevent people from fearing that some cocaine addict might try to kill them?

Honestly Marden, expecting Muslims to take responsibility for the actions of extremist terrorists is ridiculous. They are no more responsible for terrorist attacks than anyone else.

German civilians from the town of Nordhausen bury the corpses of prisoners found in the Nordhausen concentration camp in mass graves. Photo credit: USHMM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_grave

During WWII when the Nazis committed massive genocide of the Jews, Russians, and other peoples of non-Arian blood, the German people were taken to the concentration camps and made to remove and bury the bodies. When asked how they could have let that genocide happen the German people said they had no idea that was occurring in the camps, yet the smoke and stench of death filled the towns around them.http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2004/715/letters.htm

[marden]

Here is what Glenn Beck's guest said.

He is, CAPT. DAVE MACKETT, PRESIDENT, AIRLINE PILOTS SECURITY ALLIANCE

BECK: You see a bunch of Arab men that are playing -- praying and then they are changing their seats, is that going to get you kicked off a flight?

MACKETT: That raises the bar a little bit. I mean, you have to look at this from the perspective of a flight crew. Terrorists are actively seeking to attack commercial aviation. This is the new normal. It`s not going anywhere any time soon.

Airport security checkpoints failed to detect hidden weapons more than 90 percent of the time of the government`s own tests. So there`s no question that bad things and bad people are going to be able to get onto our airplanes. Once they do, only a small fraction of airplanes are protected by armed pilots even today. Only a small fraction are protected by air marshals.

So once that flight leaves the gate, it is virtually nine times out of ten, defenseless against a terrorist attack. So you have to have some level of understanding for this hyper vigilance on the part of flight crew, given that we don`t have another method to stop this attack once: if it was going to take place in the air.

BECK: Dave, the political correctness -- I`m so afraid the people who are in the air -- your job -- if you`re a pilot, your job is to get me there safely.

MACKETT: Right.

BECK: And it`s my understanding that, first of all, first question, if this is true or not, are there dry runs? Do you believe there are actual terrorist dry runs going on right now in America?

MACKETT: Right now I don`t know. There have been, absolutely, dry runs in the past several years. And that`s been confirmed by the government.

BECK: Since 9/11?

MACKETT: Oh, absolutely since 9/11. Not only dry runs but planned attacks which we saw with explosive entertainments and other ones.

BECK: OK. Do you believe that our pilots are afraid, even to the point of just serious hesitation, to say anything because of political correctness or lawsuits?

MACKETT: It depends on what the instigator is. I don`t think political correctness should be in conflict with a behavioral profiling strategy, where you say it`s a very simple test. Is this behavior unusual? If it is unusual, is it understandable? And if it is not understandable, let`s just go ask the passenger why he did what he did so we can all, you know, give him a free drink and go fly.

BECK: So what was -- do you know, what was the reason for changing their seats? What was the reason -- what was -- if you were the pilot, what would be the straw that you would say, I don`t care what their explanation is, they`re off the plane?

MACKETT: Actually, it`s funny; it`s kind of convoluted sense, where a pastor may be concerned about things like talking about al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden. Everybody does that.

BECK: Right.

MACKETT: Praying in a terminal is no big deal. Praying loudly in a terminal is no big deal.

The fact that they were reported to be clearly together in the terminal, but once they got on the plane they separated, and two of them went to first class, and there`s a report that says they did so without permission. That`s enough, at least, to just go ask the passenger and say, "OK, why did you do this?" Maybe there`s a good explanation. Maybe they had an argument in the terminal and they didn`t want to sit together.

It`s then the reaction of the passenger. Is he cooperative? Does he stand up and say absolutely, I`d love to tell you what happen and then we`ll vet it and we`ll all go flying together.

If the pastor takes the tact that, "No, I`m not going to explain this to you and you have no right, and I" -- you know, then that sort of takes you down a path where the crew, even though they want to take him, has very little latitude but to send this down a different path toward the law enforcement track.

And once law enforcement removes the passenger from the airplane, it`s kind of out of our hands, and we can`t do anything about it.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../30/gb.01.html

An aside: When you bring pertinent information to the discussion do you HAVE to state an opinion about it??? Or do we just want to leave things unsaid because there is too much to synopsize?

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by marden 

German civilians from the town of Nordhausen bury the corpses of prisoners found in the Nordhausen concentration camp in mass graves. Photo credit: USHMM
Mass grave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Marden. Could you please stop comparing Muslims to Nazis and could you kindly stop saying that I'm responsible for the acts of a madman.

Thanks.