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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Pretend you are a Venezuelan today...

View Poll Results: Who'd you vote for?
Poll Options:
Chavez 7 votes (50.00%)
Rosales 3 votes (21.43%)
I'll stay home and eat Arepas. 4 votes (28.57%)
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll
Pretend you are a Venezuelan today...
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Dec 2, 2006, 07:59 PM
 
And remove any loyalties you might have to your non-Venezuelan nation. Who you would you vote for today?

* Hugo Chavez
* Manuel Rosales

I am not giving any further info, so as not to sway you with the opinion of one particular reporter.
     
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Dec 2, 2006, 08:08 PM
 
I tried to vote for Chavez, but ended up voting for Pat Robertson instead?

Actually, my vote would go to Chavez. Endy Chavez.

     
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Dec 2, 2006, 08:21 PM
 
I'd vote for Rosales, as I'd be afraid of how much further Chavez crunches V's freedom (it is hard to be a non-Chavista in Venezuela). Have you listened to Chavez' podcast? His reality distortion field is as strong or stronger than Steve's own. Hugo makes it clear that there is no other option than him and his Bolivarian Revolution.

Are there any reports on Venezuela using the same voting technology they largely own and was used recently in a big country's election?
     
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Dec 3, 2006, 11:20 AM
 
chavez is a nutjob,

but if the people there are stupid enough to vote for him, they deserve him.
     
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Dec 3, 2006, 11:34 AM
 
Chavez of course.

Rather a man that has improved the rights of the Venezuelan people than someone who supported the US sponsored/backed coup back in 2002 and who calls his fellow countrymen "parasites".

"Learn to swim"
     
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Dec 3, 2006, 11:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by IceBreaker View Post
chavez is a nutjob,

but if the people there are stupid enough to vote for him, they deserve him.
Oh yes. People who vote for a charismatic leader who loves to talk about the glory of their country and who "stands up" against those "evil nations" who seem to want to keep them down at a lower level and deny them this glory that their great country deserves...are stupid.

Nope, I don't see how, or why, anyone could vote for that at all.

greg
(Last edited by ShortcutToMoncton; Dec 3, 2006 at 12:06 PM. )
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
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Dec 3, 2006, 12:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah View Post
Chavez of course.

Rather a man that has improved the rights of the Venezuelan people than someone who supported the US sponsored/backed coup back in 2002 and who calls his fellow countrymen "parasites".
     
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Dec 3, 2006, 12:35 PM
 
Venezuela's economy is booming so Chavez must be doing something right. The Bush bashing/devil thing is a bonus

cut and paste from nyt
Venezuela’s Economic Boom Buoys Chávez
By SIMON ROMERO

CARACAS, Venezuela, Dec. 2 — To understand why Hugo Chávez seems set for victory in Sunday’s presidential election and a strengthened mandate for what he calls a socialist revolution, consider the vigor here of that most capitalist of institutions: the stock exchange.

Housed in El Rosal, an upscale district with new skyscrapers and hotels, the 59-year-old Caracas stock exchange was the site of frenzied trading this week. Its main index climbed to a record high of 46,741, topping off a 129.2 percent rise this year that has made it one of the best performing markets in the world. On Friday, the index climbed 8 percent for its biggest daily gain in four years.

“For all of Chávez’s faults, his government has been extremely pragmatic in economic terms,” said José Guerra, a former chief of economic research at Venezuela’s central bank. “State-supported capitalism isn’t just surviving under Chávez,” he said. “It is thriving.”

Often lost in the campaigning between Mr. Chávez and his electoral challenger, Manuel Rosales, is that Venezuela, with the largest conventional petroleum reserves outside the Middle East, is having one of the most significant oil booms in its history. Economic growth this year is set to pass 10 percent, making Venezuela the fastest-growing economy in the Americas.

The Chávez government, while wrapping itself in socialist imagery — like red clothing — and deepening its alliance with Fidel Castro’s Cuba, has made this expansion possible by quietly working with Venezuela’s banking system. The rush of petrodollars into the economy has led bank deposits to climb 84 percent in the past 12 months, according to Softline Consultores, a financial consulting business here.

The boom is evident in an economy that has put financial speculation and conspicuous consumption ahead of domestic manufacturing. For instance, foreign automobile companies Ford and General Motors will sell 300,000 cars in the country this year. Economists describe Venezuela as a “harbor economy” because of its lust for imported goods.

“Many people say we’re in a profound political and social crisis,” said Michael Penfold-Becerra, an economist at the Institute of Higher Administrative Studies, a Caracas business school. “On the contrary, we’ve returned to a temporary period of harmony. Oil is buying us a certain social peace and stability.”

Neither candidate in Sunday’s election seems to acknowledge the growing consumerism in rich and poor households as one of the main reasons Mr. Chávez has resilient popularity ratings after eight years as president. Most opinion polls give him a double-digit lead over Mr. Rosales, governor of the oil-producing Zulia State in the west.

Mr. Chávez makes frequent exhortations in favor of socialism, sometimes describing Jesus Christ as the first socialist and Judas as the first capitalist. Mr. Rosales said in an interview that Mr. Chávez, who has deepened ties with Cuba by bringing thousands of Cuban doctors to Venezuela in exchange for subsidized oil, was “implementing a Castro-style system of autocratic rule in Venezuela.”

While Mr. Chávez promises socialism, historians say that in effect he is delivering old-fashioned populism. He is often compared to Carlos Andrés Pérez, the populist president who oversaw economic expansion in the 1970s when Venezuela also benefited from higher oil prices.

“Chávez has a problem in that what he calls his socialist revolution never involved the overthrow of a dictator like Batista or Somoza,” said Alberto Barrera Tyszka, who co-wrote an acclaimed biography of Mr. Chávez. “He’s redefining socialism as a concept that could exist only in Venezuela, where it is characterized by hatred of George Bush and an excess of BMWs and Audis.”

Some Chávez economic policies draw inspiration from formulas used with mixed results by countries in the developing and industrialized worlds the 1960s and 1970s. These include price controls for food and gasoline, strict limits on buying and selling foreign currency and caps on everything from lending rates at banks to hourly fees at parking lots.

At the same time, the government has channeled billions of dollars in oil revenues into social welfare programs and small cooperatives intended to produce goods to replace imports on the domestic market. The government says these efforts are moving Venezuela toward a vaguely defined “21st-century socialism.”

Oil is at the heart of this development model. Venezuela, in contrast to oil-exporting countries like Mexico or Saudi Arabia that tightly circumscribe the operations of foreign oil companies, still produces oil in ventures with some of the largest private energy companies, including Chevron and Royal Dutch Shell. And the government works closely with Venezuelan and foreign banks to maintain economic stability.

Unlike Rafael Correa, the newly elected president of Ecuador, who plans to renegotiate the foreign debt, Mr. Chávez has made every effort to meet Venezuela’s obligations with foreign lenders. As a result, markets still consider Venezuelan bonds about as safe an investment as bonds issued by Brazil, a neighboring industrial powerhouse.

The Finance Ministry, meanwhile, has tolerated loopholes for the moneyed classes to circumvent foreign exchange controls by allowing them to buy stocks and bonds that can be exchanged for securities denominated in dollars. Critics of this system say it has allowed a new elite to emerge through opaque dealings with the government.

Fernando Coronil, a Venezuelan historian at the University of Michigan, said Mr. Chávez’s policies were reminiscent of the heady years after World War II when Democratic Action, a social democratic party, swept into power on a platform that emphasized distributing oil wealth to the poor. Leaders even called their movement the October Revolution, though populist rule in Venezuela eventually became characterized by a lack of transparency in the distribution of favors through the state.

While earlier booms revolved around huge investments in industrial projects like aluminum smelters, analysts say the latest expansion is especially risky because it focuses mainly on consumption.

Despite boasting of some of South America’s most fertile land in an area the size of Texas and Oklahoma combined, Venezuela still imports more than half its food, largely from the United States and Colombia. An overvalued currency, meanwhile, has been disastrous for Venezuelan industry with the number of manufacturing companies falling to about 8,000 today from 17,000 in 1998, according to Mr. Guerra, the former economist at the central bank.
     
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Dec 3, 2006, 01:44 PM
 
Let's face it, Bush is a consumate bully. Anyone standing up to him is bound to be popular, even if he has flaws.
     
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Dec 4, 2006, 06:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by IceBreaker View Post
What's so funny? Couldn't find anything to refute what I said?

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Dec 4, 2006, 09:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah View Post
What's so funny? Couldn't find anything to refute what I said?
it is quite amusing to see Chavez being held up as someone interested in freedom:

link: http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/am....ap/index.html
     
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Dec 4, 2006, 11:05 AM
 
Neither candidate was worth voting for. Chavez has managed to get landslided back into office now, and that will hopefully get him to stop deflecting attention from internal issues and onto some paranoid notion that the U.S. is interested in doing him in.
Glenn -----
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Dec 5, 2006, 04:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by IceBreaker View Post
it is quite amusing to see Chavez being held up as someone interested in freedom:

link: Chavez backs possible vote to close private TV stations - CNN.com
Check out how the situation was before him. Then read my post again.

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Dec 5, 2006, 04:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Neither candidate was worth voting for. Chavez has managed to get landslided back into office now, and that will hopefully get him to stop deflecting attention from internal issues and onto some paranoid notion that the U.S. is interested in doing him in.
Paranoid?

American navy 'helped Venezuelan coup' | The Guardian | Guardian Unlimited
The US and the Coup in Venezuela

You can find much more about it if you want to.

"Learn to swim"
     
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Dec 5, 2006, 06:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by IceBreaker View Post
chavez is a nutjob,

but if the people there are stupid enough to vote for him, they deserve him.
americans were stupid enough to vote for their current president. twice.
     
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Dec 5, 2006, 07:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by houstonmacbro View Post
americans were stupid enough to vote for their current president. twice.
look at the quacks they just voted into congress. no argument there. people deserve who they vote for.
     
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Dec 5, 2006, 07:49 AM
 
i think we can both agree that people get the leaders they elect.
     
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Dec 5, 2006, 08:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah View Post
This just doesn't sound right. Not because of politics, but because the supposed American "source" is quoted as using BRITISH colloquialisms:
""I first heard of Lieutenant Colonel James Rogers [the assistant military attaché now based at the US embassy in Caracas] going down there last June to set the ground," Mr Madsen, an intelligence analyst, said yesterday.
An American would have said something more like "to prepare the ground" or similar...

And I've never been really impressed by the Guardian's journalistic integrity anyway...I tend to like more balance in an editorial stance, and the Guardian seems to be so far left it's looking into the Right's ear.
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