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subego · Dec 21, 2006, 12:38 AM

marden posted this news story in a different thread, which details a PowerPoint presentation written by an officer killed in Iraq.

In sharp contrast to the usual Defense Department mush, this particular presentation is quite to the point:

Here's the complete presentation in PDF. It's 18 slides long.

Why the need for such a remedial lesson in the difference between infantry and police? This isn't even Tactics 101, it's Civics 101.

RAILhead · Dec 21, 2006, 09:40 AM

Moustaches [sic] for everyone!!11!

OreoCookie · Dec 21, 2006, 10:13 AM

Why have you added another thread on this subject?

Dakar² · Dec 21, 2006, 10:15 AM

I know, I'm confused.

subego · Dec 21, 2006, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Why have you added another thread on this subject?

Oops.

marden gave me leave to after he posted it in a different thread.

I think it may have taken me too long to write-up, and in the interim, marden went ahead and posted it himself.

This one (mostly) still lacks content, so lockinate away.

Again. My apologies.

Dakar² · Dec 21, 2006, 10:48 AM

Both posters have now asked for their threads to be locked.

marden · Dec 21, 2006, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Why have you added another thread on this subject?

This thread includes the actual images from the PPT presentation and I think that, alone, makes it a better thread. Please lock mine.

Rumor · Dec 21, 2006, 10:50 AM

When they get locked, can I start another one?

marden · Dec 21, 2006, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by subego

Oops.

marden gave me leave to after he posted it in a different thread.

I think it may have taken me too long to write-up, and in the interim, marden went ahead and posted it himself.

This one (mostly) still lacks content, so lockinate away.

Again. My apologies.

You are absolutely right!

I only went ahead with it because you hadn't and you didn't say you would.

Yours is the better of the two. Mine should be locked.

marden · Dec 21, 2006, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Rumor

When they get locked, can I start another one?

Maybe it should be like American Idol and whichever thread is best remains unlocked.

Dakar² · Dec 21, 2006, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Rumor

When they get locked, can I start another one?

You can but I'm starting a competing one, and mine will feature more T&A.

Rumor · Dec 21, 2006, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

You can but I'm starting a competing one, and mine will feature more T&A.

Tea and apples?

subego · Dec 21, 2006, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

more T&A.

Taliban & Al Qaed...

On second thought, forget it. That's a bad joke.

Dakar² · Dec 21, 2006, 11:04 AM

Text & Attacks

Rumor · Dec 21, 2006, 11:07 AM

Tornados and Avalanches?

Here we go again.

Dakar² · Dec 21, 2006, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Rumor

Here we go again.

NO.

Rumor · Dec 21, 2006, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

NO.

Needs more red and maybe some lens flare.

Dakar² · Dec 21, 2006, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Rumor

Needs more red and maybe some lens flare.

Rumor · Dec 21, 2006, 11:27 AM

I'm trying to stifle my laugh at work. Not being too successful either.

subego · Dec 21, 2006, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Rumor

I'm trying to stifle my laugh at work. Not being too successful either.

If this gets just one person fired, then it was worth all the effort.

Dakar² · Dec 21, 2006, 11:39 AM

It certainly would vault me to a sudden legendary status.

OreoCookie · Dec 21, 2006, 12:04 PM

I've closed marden's thread. I hope you can bring this one back on track and discuss the PowerPoint presentation

Dakar² · Dec 21, 2006, 12:05 PM

Thanks for not being a scrooge Oreo

(it's only 1 thread we're acting up in)

OreoCookie · Dec 21, 2006, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Thanks for not being a scrooge Oreo

(it's only 1 thread we're acting up in)

It's my Christmas spirit at work!

Dakar² · Dec 21, 2006, 12:11 PM

Well it's the holidays, so you're probably Doublestuff

subego · Dec 21, 2006, 12:38 PM

Well, to drag things back on topic...

Boring, I know.

Considering our differing views, the fact that this presentation appeals to both marden and myself is interesting.

I surmise he is presenting it as a viable tactic, which AFAICT it is, though it doesn't seem to address that the militias are responsible for the "sectarian violence", so I don't know if turning them all into cops is the best idea from the Iraqi's standpoint.

I think his discussion of the Sheiks is notable. I'll be honest, I haven't heard one god damn thing about the Sheiks in four years. Now that I think about it, that's really odd.

Of course, we have the flipside, which I touched on with the rhetorical question about the need for the remedial lesson about the difference between infantry and the police. I don't think I've seen a clearer indication things are ****ed up beyond our wildest imagining than the existence of this presentation.

marden · Dec 21, 2006, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by subego

Well, to drag things back on topic...

Boring, I know.

Considering our differing views, the fact that this presentation appeals to both marden and myself is interesting.

I surmise he is presenting it as a viable tactic, which AFAICT it is, though it doesn't seem to address that the militias are responsible for the "sectarian violence", so I don't know if turning them all into cops is the best idea from the Iraqi's standpoint.

I think his discussion of the Sheiks is notable. I'll be honest, I haven't heard one god damn thing about the Sheiks in four years. Now that I think about it, that's really odd.

Of course, we have the flipside, which I touched on with the rhetorical question about the need for the remedial lesson about the difference between infantry and the police. I don't think I've seen a clearer indication things are ****ed up beyond our wildest imagining than the existence of this presentation.

I think a parallel can be drawn of sorts, between the behavior in this thread with regard to the subject matter and the war in Iraq.

People here are pursuing agendas of fun and interaction which might be satisfying to some extent, and their posts might be close to the intended purpose for being here, but they've missed the point or avoided an important aspect of the business at hand, so far. The posters have avoided talking about the Captain's suggestions and have instead fussed and fiddled amongst themselves. But that doesn't mean things can't turn around.

The US has similarly avoided dealing with or making better use of the Sheiks. But that doesn't mean things can't be turned around.

At this point if the forces in Iraq turned to the Captain's idea and methodology we might possibly see positive results. No one can say otherwise until it is tried.

And if the militias obey the Sheiks and are only loyal to them then shouldn't we be dealing with the Sheiks and making use of their recognized authority to control the militias? If the militias are bad only because they are doing what the Sheiks tell them to or allow them to do, then the Sheiks might be the key.

Dakar² · Dec 21, 2006, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by marden

The posters have avoided talking about the Captain's suggestions and have instead fussed and fiddled amongst themselves.

Excuse us for being a little rambunctious today! It's almost Christmas, you know.

marden · Dec 21, 2006, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Excuse us for being a little rambunctious today! It's almost Christmas, you know.

Just an observation. No criticisms leveled.

Dakar² · Dec 21, 2006, 03:01 PM

Just a comment, no defensiveness intended.

andi*pandi · Dec 21, 2006, 05:41 PM

interesting. it makes it so clear and simple a solution, that I'm just sure there's more complications out there. No sheik is going to try for power? No rival sheik militias war amongst themselves? What else?

Rumor · Dec 21, 2006, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

interesting. it makes it so clear and simple a solution, that I'm just sure there's more complications out there. No sheik is going to try for power? No rival sheik militias war amongst themselves? What else?

Having a moustache allows you to blend in.

marden · Dec 21, 2006, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

Having a moustache allows you to blend in.

More like NOT having a mustache makes it harder for the Iraqis to trust and like them.

Mithras · Dec 21, 2006, 07:54 PM

What really sucks is that the soldier who made the Powerpoint was killed by an IED a few weeks ago.

analogika · Dec 21, 2006, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by marden

More like NOT having a mustache makes it harder for the Iraqis to trust and like them.

Yes, I'm sure that's why Bush's little campaign is a failure.

marden · Dec 22, 2006, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by Mithras

What really sucks is that the soldier who made the Powerpoint was killed by an IED a few weeks ago.

Yup.

marden · Dec 22, 2006, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

Yes, I'm sure that's why Bush's little campaign is a failure.

It's ironic, some of you (maybe even YOU) have criticized Bush for declaring "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" when Saddam's government was militarily defeated by saying that statement was woefully premature.

Yet you are sooooooooo blind in pronouncing the Iraqi campaign as a failure even though there are dynamics that remain unresolved which are changing on a daily basis which could change the situation on the ground.

Furthermore, there are at least SEVEN REAL SUCCESSES to come from the invasion.

1. Israel still stands.

2. We never suffered an oil crisis.

3. A greater war did not break out.

4. A brutal dictator was deposed.

5. Millions have been freed and voted in free elections.

6. We have suffered no attacks since 9/11.

7. The American people and the rest of the world have had a chance to gradually learn more about the threat to freedom posed by Islamists.

Mithras · Dec 22, 2006, 01:24 PM

#1, #2, #3, #6, and #7 would be true independently of the invasion.
That leaves #4 and #5, which are indeed good, but have to be weighed against the horrific bloodshed that our inadequate handling of the post-regime security situation has unleashed.

subego · Dec 22, 2006, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by marden

At this point if the forces in Iraq turned to the Captain's idea and methodology we might possibly see positive results. No one can say otherwise until it is tried.

This is the frightening part. The fact that we are trying this now.

That this is a job for the cops is something these people should have learned at West Point, not Al Anbar. A captain shouldn't have to do a presentation on basic military concepts that is meant to go up the chain-of-command.

The problem I ultimately have with your arguments is not the conclusion, that we need to turn this around, but the fact that in arguing your conclusion you gloss over just how much turning around we need to do.

Likewise, whatever problems you think we face, you seem intent on pinning those problems on the MSM and the left. Did you notice that seeing happier stories on CNN was not mentioned in the presentation? Does Joe have a frown because the peacenicks are hurting his morale?

No. Joe is sad because the people in command are ****ing things up.

I know you think this is defeatist talk, but I'll let you in on a secret. Joe doesn't think so.

Kevin · Dec 22, 2006, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by marden

It's ironic, some of you (maybe even YOU) have criticized Bush for declaring "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" when Saddam's government was militarily defeated by saying that statement was woefully premature.

Not another one... Jeesh.