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Sky Captain · Jan 5, 2007, 10:30 AM

Apparently the voters were hosed

Wasn't there a mad rush from the voters to oust the current leaders on the promises of the socialists after the railway bombings?
And didn't the bombers send a message to the voters?

dcmacdaddy · Jan 5, 2007, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

Apparently the voters were hosed

Wasn't there a mad rush from the voters to oust the current leaders on the promises of the socialists after the railway bombings?
And didn't the bombers send a message to the voters?

Here's a quick lesson in terrorist identification for you.
ETA != al Qaeda
ETA = domestic terrorists in Spain
al Qaeda = foreign terrorists in Spain

The railway bombings that led to the ouster of the previous party were by outside/foreign terrorists, not the home-grown terrorists they are used to in Spain. The ouster of the then-leaders was in reaction to the actions of the leader in support of the Iraq war. It was not so much a vote against terrorism as it was a vote to show the politicians that the wishes of the people must be followed. Many people in Spain--rightly, in my opinion--that the terrorist train attacks perpetrated by al Qaeda would not have occurred if the Spanish government hadn't forcefully supported the War on Terror and the invasion of Iraq. So, they voted out the leaders that supported the war on terror in hopes of making their country less of a target for foreign terrorists. I think very few people in Spain associated the ouster of the previous political party with anything to do with ETA. Both the previous party and the current party have been just as opposed to ETA.

Sky Captain · Jan 5, 2007, 10:48 AM

Ahh.
Well thanks for clearing that up for me.

But from my understanding, this has been going on for 40 or so years.

dcmacdaddy · 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

Ahh.
Well thanks for clearing that up for me.

But from my understanding, this has been going on for 40 or so years.

Pretty much. It's been going on for quite a while in Spain. Just like for the English with three decades of IRA terrorism and the French with four decades of North African terrorism, the Spaniards are used to dealing with their home-grown terrorists.

BRussell · Jan 5, 2007, 11:36 AM

Is this thread kind of like "I thought everyone loved Kerry?" You know, based on a factually inaccurate premise?

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

So, they voted out the leaders that supported the war on terror in hopes of making their country less of a target for foreign terrorists.

I don't think that's fair. My read of it is that the government tried to blame ETA when there was evidence it was al Qaeda, and it was that government lie that hurt the ruling party in the elections.

OreoCookie · Jan 5, 2007, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by BRussell

I don't think that's fair. My read of it is that the government tried to blame ETA when there was evidence it was al Qaeda, and it was that government lie that hurt the ruling party in the elections.

That's just part of it. The vast majority of Spanish believed it was wrong to invade Iraq (the former government was one of the few to support the US with troops) and the bombing was perceived as a consequence of that.

With ETA terrorism, it's different: there is no consensus to allow the (minority of) Basks to break away and let them found a state of their own.

Sky Captain · Jan 5, 2007, 12:25 PM

But apparently the the ETA seem to think that a high enough body count will gain them their own state. Right?

OreoCookie · Jan 5, 2007, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

But apparently the the ETA seem to think that a high enough body count will gain them their own state. Right?

Not necessarily. Too high a body count can be detrimental to sympathy by potential supporters, it's a big difference if the terrorism is home-grown. However, I think this is a different topic. Your initial suggestion that there is a parallel between the train bombings by Al Quaida and the bombings by ETA this week is incorrect.

TETENAL · Jan 5, 2007, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

Wasn't there a mad rush from the voters to oust the current leaders on the promises of the socialists after the railway bombings?

You were mistaken when you believed the reason why the socialists won the election were the Madrid bombings. The "the Spaniards have given in to the terrorists" was just non-sensical drivel of you and other right wing trolls on this forum, and the conclusion that voting socialists will end terrorism originated in nothing but your phantasy.

Besides, ETA has nothing to do with Al-Qaida, so this has nothing to do with each other anyway.

Doofy · Jan 5, 2007, 12:52 PM

ETA's flogging a dead horse. Even if they do succeed in creating their own "Basque Country", they'll still be ruled from Brussels.

Sky Captain · Jan 5, 2007, 12:53 PM

I was mistaken about the original elections.
I think. That terrorism = forcng voters hands.
Well if the government change is directly caused by Al Quida and Spains involvement in Iraq, then the terrorist control the people.
Still.

OreoCookie · Jan 5, 2007, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

I was mistaken about the original elections.
I think. That terrorism = forcng voters hands.
Well if the government change is directly caused by Al Quida and Spains involvement in Iraq, then the terrorist control the people.
Still.

No, that's still a misconception. The voters were against an involvement in Iraq long before the terrorist attack, they weren't swayed over in droves because of them. In the 2002 elections in Germany, this was also a reason why Schröder had been re-elected instead of his conservative opponent: Schröder clearly promised not to support any military action in Iraq under those circumstances whereas his conservative opponent (Stoiber) didn't make a clear commitment.

Sky Captain · Jan 5, 2007, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

You were mistaken when you believed the reason why the socialists won the election were the Madrid bombings. The "the Spaniards have given in to the terrorists" was just non-sensical drivel of you and other right wing trolls on this forum, and the conclusion that voting socialists will end terrorism originated in nothing but your phantasy.

Besides, ETA has nothing to do with Al-Qaida, so this has nothing to do with each other anyway.

This a personal swipe?
I am hardly right wing.

Dakar² · Jan 5, 2007, 02:01 PM

Calling that a personal swipe is a bit of a stretch.

Sky Captain · Jan 5, 2007, 02:11 PM

When the "you" was added, it makes it personal.

Some people are testy about the cesspool that is socialism being critisized.
See, this is not personal. It's opinion.

I've re-read "news media" reports of the affects the bombings had on the elections.
They lead one to believe that the Spainish were sent a message to vote out the conservatives, or else more wuld come.

I hate the "news media". It's completely dishonest.

Dakar² · Jan 5, 2007, 02:18 PM

You're probably right.

It's been a while since I gotten involved in here (seems like since someone was banned...) so I guess I'm more laid back than usual.

voodoo · Jan 8, 2007, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

You were mistaken when you believed the reason why the socialists won the election were the Madrid bombings. The "the Spaniards have given in to the terrorists" was just non-sensical drivel of you and other right wing trolls on this forum, and the conclusion that voting socialists will end terrorism originated in nothing but your phantasy.

Besides, ETA has nothing to do with Al-Qaida, so this has nothing to do with each other anyway.

I'm sure Sky Captain won't make that mistake again. Well, seeing how PSOE is screwing things up, I don't see them winning the next elections. It was time for the PP to take a rest, but I suspect they'll just come out stronger in the long run after being in the oposition for a while.

Zapatero is no great leader, but at least he isn't Bush's lapdog either. The PP was out of touch with the nation and that's why it lost.

V