[IceBreaker]

Britain and France planned 'merger in 1950s'


The countries discussed the possibility of Elizabeth II becoming the French head of state.

Britain and France talked about a 'union' in the 1950s and even discussed the possibility of Elizabeth II becoming the French head of state.

Once-secret papers from the National Archives have yielded the discoveries. On September 10, 1956, French Prime Minister Guy Mollet came to London to discuss the possibility of a merger between the two countries with Prime Minister Sir Anthony Eden.

A British Cabinet paper from that period reads: "When the French Prime Minister, Monsieur Mollet, was recently in London he raised with the Prime Minister the possibility of a union between the United Kingdom and France."

At the time of the proposal, France was in economic difficulties and faced the escalating Suez crisis.

But when Mr Mollet's request for a union failed, the French premier quickly responded with another radical plan: that France be allowed to join the British Commonwealth.
According to the BBC, this proposal appears to have met with more warmth from the British politician.

A document dated September 28, 1956 records a conversation between Sir Anthony and his Cabinet Secretary, Sir Norman Brook.
It says: "The PM told him (Brook) on the telephone that he thought in the light of his talks with the French:
"That we should give immediate consideration to France joining the Commonwealth;
"That Monsieur Mollet had not thought there need be difficulty over France accepting the headship of her Majesty;
"That the French would welcome a common citizenship arrangement on the Irish basis."
Nonetheless, this proposal was also eventually rejected. A year later France signed the Treaty of Rome with Germany and the other founding nations of the Common Market.
Mike Thomson, presenter of the BBC's Document programme, writes on the BBC website that the revelatory papers "have lain virtually unnoticed since being released two decades ago".
No record of the proposals is thought to exist in French archives. Document's A Marriage Cordial will be broadcast on Radio 4 at 8pm tonight.
.......

interesting idea, I wonder if it will ever come to be?

oh, link:
Britain and France planned 'merger in 1950s' | News | This is London

[Dakar²]

What's the difference between a union and joining the commonwealth?

(I'm not sure I know what the 'commonwealth' is)

[voodoo]

What a load of crock.

V

[Eug]

Well, Canada is a member of the British Commonwealth, but basically we are completely separate from England, aside from the fact that we have the Queen's face on our money, and we pay some woman to tour around the world cutting ribbons and stuff as the Queen's rep. Oh and we get to send our athletes to the Commonwealth Games.

[moodymonster]

I think it means that under a union France would effectively become part of the UK.

The Commonwealth is a network of countries that used to be the British Empire - it's a trading group and more. Could be seen as similar to the EU.

[Dakar²]

Thanks moody.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by moodymonster 

The Commonwealth is a network of countries that used to be the British Empire - it's a trading group and more. Could be seen as similar to the EU.

Not really. The EU nations cooperate with each extensively economically. The British Commonwealth countries don't have that kind of cooperation at all.

Canada has more free trade with the US than it does with the UK.

[moodymonster]

France did actually used to be ruled by an English King, who also sat on the English throne - I think it ended early 18th century.

When the UK joined the EU, lots of commonwealth countries weren't too happy - I think, they wanted a situation similar to that now exists in the EU.

France and England have a long history - tended to be England beating them, fighting them right across Europe on occasion.

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by moodymonster 

France did actually used to be ruled by an English King, who also sat on the English throne - I think it ended early 18th century.
.

Say what?

[voodoo]

Look, Guy Mollet was a communist prime minister for about a year. These talks were not in any seriousness going to become anything else but talk.

France was about to explode with Gaullism. Just about the complete opposite of what that commie was proposing.

For all intents and purposes, this never happend.

V

[moodymonster]

not France as we know it today, but substantial parts of it - Joan of Arc, 100 years war etc

[Kerrigan]

This is interesting, especially in light of the UK's rejected proposition that it join the United States right after WWII. Britain's economy was in such shambles that the United States never seriously considered it.

Edit:

A hypothetical United Kingdom of England, Scotland, France, etc, could have worked out rather well, but I'm glad it never happened. France, as a society, is simply too unstable and one can easily picture loads of resentment building up against the "ultra-liberal", mean spirited, dry English.

[voodoo]

The French people would never *ever* have accepted monarchy over the republic. Let alone the British monarchy! Sheesh!

Why are we even discussing this? It is about as ludicrous as a re-union of Sweden and Norway or Spain and Portugal.. except more ludicrous.

V

[moodymonster]

I don't think the French people would have gone for it either.

Bit surprised at the news to be honest, but then I'm not familiar with the prevailing attitude back then.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by moodymonster 

I don't think the French people would have gone for it either.

Bit surprised at the news to be honest, but then I'm not familiar with the prevailing attitude back then.

Little over a year after these 'discussions' the French created the fifth republic and voted for Charles de Gaulle.

I'd say the general attitude was 'nationalistic' and 'proud'.

V

[Kerrigan]

Nicked from The Times:

“Franglaises, Franglais. Chers compatriots. Mon nom est Gordon Brun, et je suis running pour président de notre great pays de Frangleterre! Aujourd’hui, un demi century après l’ union entre la France et l’Angleterre que le prime minister de France, Guy Mollet, a crée en 1956 après l’avoir proposer au prime minister anglais, Anthony Eden, nous avons become une force très mighty. Personne dans le monde ne peut dire le nom Frangleterre sans saying, ‘C’est vraiment une création incroyable! Un véritable miracle, presque as remarkable que le survival de John Reid a l’Office d’Home après tous les fiascos.’

Vous avez un choix pour votre next président très facile — entre moi et mon rival sur la droite, Nicolas Sarkozy. Pourquoi moi, alors? Parce que je suis l’obvious successor d’Antoine Blair. Je veux continuer (je promise!) le work de nouvel Labour que mon cher ami Antoine (ne rigole pas, s’il vous plaît!) a starté. Frangleterre et nouvel Labour sont un mariage aussi naturel que notre mariage fameux entre boeuf bourgignon et les puddings de Yorkshire. Nouvel Labour est un parti aussi franglais qu’un repas de spam tartare.

Nicolas Sarkozy (est-ce que tu as vu son très neat hairstyle, et le way il dresses un peu trop smartly?) veut que tout le monde work, work, work; sans des strikes réguliers qui sont le droit de chaque person qui habite en Frangleterre! Il y a, of course, problèmes dans notre union. Par example, prenez notre cricket team de Frangleterre — please (boum boum!). Il a perdu humilieusement contre l’Australia, mais ça n’est pas le fault de nouvel Labour. C’est simply un teething problème de notre crossbred sport de French cricket. Dans any mariage, rien est perfect.”