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Rumor · Jan 19, 2007, 03:03 PM

California lawmaker proposes no-spanking law - Yahoo! News

The bill, backed by Democrat Sally Lieber of San Francisco, a member of the state legislature, would outlaw spanking children three years old or younger and carry a possible penalty of jail time or a 1,000-dollar fine.
"I think it's pretty hard to argue you need to beat a child three years old or younger," said Lieber, who plans to introduce the bill next week.

There is a huge difference between spanking a child and beating a child.

"Where do you stop?" said Republican Chuck Devore. "At what point are we going to say we should pass a bill that every parent has to read a minimum of 30 minutes every night to their child? This is right along those same lines."

I liked his comment quite a bit.

"That was the way Austria worked," he told the newspaper. "You know, I think it maybe had something to do with after the war. People were maybe more angry and more frustrated, you know, having lost the war or whatever else."
The governor said he understood the desire to "get rid of the physical, the brutal behavior that some parents have."
And he added that he and his wife, Maria Shriver, have never hit their four children. "Absolutely not," he said.

This may get vetoed. There are already child abuse laws in place. There is nothing wrong (IMO) with spanking a child. There is something wrong with smacking them upside the head though.

subego · Jan 19, 2007, 03:49 PM

friend: My dad used to beat me all the time.

subego: My god! With an object?

friend: Oh yeah. It wasn't too bad.

subego: How can you say that? There is absolutely, positively no reason to hit a child with an object.

friend: That was just his way. Whenever me and my sister were bad, he would pull out the slipper.

subego: Slipper?

friend: Yes.

subego: He would beat you with a slipper?

friend: Yes.

subego: ...

Rumor · Jan 19, 2007, 04:22 PM

Um, hitting with an object I would classify as beating, a swat on the rear with your hand is what I classify as spanking.

Though I was "spanked" with a belt and paddle as a child.

subego · Jan 19, 2007, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

Um, hitting with an object I would classify as beating, a swat on the rear with your hand is what I classify as spanking.

That's the point. What if one is swatted on the rear with an object that is softer than a hand?

Edit: FWIW I don't think you should hit a child, even with a slipper, but I think my exchange is a good illustration of how there are markedly different degrees of corporal punishment.

subego · Jan 19, 2007, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

Though I was "spanked" with a belt and paddle as a child.

A paddle?

Like, purposely built for spanking?

Rumor · Jan 19, 2007, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by subego

A paddle?

Like, purposely built for spanking?

I'm not sure where my father got it.

Rumor · Jan 19, 2007, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by subego

That's the point. What if one is swatted on the rear with an object that is softer than a hand?

Edit: FWIW I don't think you should hit a child, even with a slipper, but I think my exchange is a good illustration of how there are markedly different degrees of corporal punishment.

I see your point now. I guess ultimately, what is beyond "normal" punishment is in the eye of the beholder.

Railroader · Jan 19, 2007, 06:29 PM

Digg - Bill making it illegal to spank your kids going to the Legislature

Rumor · Jan 19, 2007, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Digg - Bill making it illegal to spank your kids going to the Legislature

What's your point? I live in California and it's in the paper I get at the office.

subego · Jan 19, 2007, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

I'm not sure where my father got it.

But that's what it was made for? It wasn't a repurposed cricket bat or something?

Rumor · Jan 19, 2007, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by subego

But that's what it was made for? It wasn't a repurposed cricket bat or something?

I think it was made for some kind of sport. It was wooden and a little bit bigger than a ping pong paddle.

subego · Jan 19, 2007, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

I think it was made for some kind of sport. It was wooden and a little bit bigger than a ping pong paddle.

Okay, that's (more or less) still on this side of sanity.

When one goes beyond improvisational tools and needs something purpose-built, I'd say that definitely crosses the line. If only for the attitude they must have.

Rumor · Jan 19, 2007, 06:54 PM

I'd even say using a paddle or a belt is across the line (probably because I was on the receiving end of it). A willow switch I'm up in the air about, cause it just stings for a little bit.

Though, when I think of spanking with a hand, I equate that to one swat, not multiple times.

subego · Jan 19, 2007, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

I'd even say using a paddle or a belt is across the line (probably because I was on the receiving end of it). A willow switch I'm up in the air about, cause it just stings for a little bit.

Though, when I think of spanking with a hand, I equate that to one swat, not multiple times.

I personally agree here, though my libertarian tendencies makes me want to keep this out of the legal realm until, as is the case in most places, injury occurs.

Likewise, I wouldn't want to use the club of the law against someone who had a purpose-built paddle, but I'm willing to take a moral stance and say that someone who feels the need for a purpose-built paddle is severely twisted.

Comparatively, someone who thinks it's okay to spank with a belt is merely misguided.

Railroader · Jan 19, 2007, 07:36 PM

How about a little "rule of thumb"?

torsoboy · Jan 20, 2007, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by subego

Likewise, I wouldn't want to use the club of the law against someone who had a purpose-built paddle, but I'm willing to take a moral stance and say that someone who feels the need for a purpose-built paddle is severely twisted.

Comparatively, someone who thinks it's okay to spank with a belt is merely misguided.

Or they just have a different oppinion than you do.

I have spanked my three year old on multiple occassions, though because he is still in a diaper it is more of a mental thing than a physical thing to him (can't feel much through the diaper). For the most he gets time outs when he acts up, but on some occassions a spanking helps drive the point home a little more I think.

I have never used anything other than my hand, but when I was growing up my mom used a crib stick or a wooden spoon. I see nothing wrong with spanking a child and I see a whole lot of problems with the lack of dicipline that children are getting now days. Let parents raise their kids using the same dicipline methods that have been used for thousands of years... too many laws in this world now days.

subego · Jan 20, 2007, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by torsoboy

Or they just have a different oppinion than you do.

Or being misguided leads them to a different opinion.

Originally Posted by torsoboy

when I was growing up my mom used a crib stick or a wooden spoon

Originally Posted by torsoboy

I have spanked my three year old on multiple occassions

Well, knock me over with a feather.

:spank:

medicineman · Jan 20, 2007, 08:41 AM

Forget the merits of slapping a child's hand when reaching for something inappropiate, I see no outrage here of government going where it has no business.

Railroader · Jan 20, 2007, 09:32 AM

I think some members of the government could use a hard spanking.

torsoboy · Jan 20, 2007, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by subego

Or being misguided leads them to a different opinion.

lol

You're a pretty funny guy if you believe that if people have a different opinion than you it means they are "misguided".

Or maybe you are just on a higher horse than the rest of us.

subego · Jan 20, 2007, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by torsoboy

lol

You're a pretty funny guy if you believe that if people have a different opinion than you it means they are "misguided".

As entertaining as the ontological ramifications might be, you aren't seriously claiming that all opinions are equally valid, right?

I mean, this flies clear past "misguided" and crashes somewhere downrange of "defensively silly".

subego · Jan 23, 2007, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by medicineman

I see no outrage here of government going where it has no business.

Do you consider it that likely to pass?

I mean, enough to express outrage?

The whole thing seems more flaky than outrageous.

macintologist · Jan 29, 2007, 04:00 PM

I personally will never physically attack my children. But it's not my place to say how other parents should raise their kids.

Zeeb · Jan 30, 2007, 09:24 AM

Forget about parents, my school principal spanked me in elementary school for leaving school grounds to explore an abandoned building. He used a paddle made specifically for that purpose. I really don't see what the big deal is about spanking--I wasn't tramatized and I'm not going to therapy over it. It he were to do it today he would probably be in jail and a registered sex offender or something.

In general it seems the trend is to minimize "judgement calls" in society in general and legislate exactly what your decision or action should be in a given situation.

Kevin · Jan 30, 2007, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Zeeb

Forget about parents, my school principal spanked me in elementary school for leaving school grounds to explore an abandoned building. He used a paddle made specifically for that purpose. I really don't see what the big deal is about spanking--I wasn't tramatized and I'm not going to therapy over it. It he were to do it today he would probably be in jail and a registered sex offender or something.

In general it seems the trend is to minimize "judgement calls" in society in general and legislate exactly what your decision or action should be in a given situation.

*thumbsup*

Abusing a child is different than spanking.

And people wonder why kids are such brats in this day.