[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

All the cites in the thread are evidence

It's pretty easy to tell they aren't evidence of carbon offsets when none of them even mention carbon offsets.

Just admit it, you made up how prohibitively expensive and worthless carbon offsets were without doing even the slightest bit of fact-checking, just because your gut feeling told you Gore must be wrong.
"And it would take a small country to offset the Gore-On's carbon footprint"

[Macrobat]

I never said a damned thing about the monetary costs of carbon offsets. I said that they are a boondoggle, and they are - the concept is akin to purchasing dispensations from the Pope to "offset" one's sins in the Middle Ages.

Please, if you believe in HCGW (which I don't) you should be even more outraged, not defending this goob. His position is that he can continue to live VERY high on the hog, while preaching to others to scrimp, cut down on their emissions, etc. It seriously looks as if he wants all the rest of the residents of the planet to do as he says, so he can continue to live his life without giving up a single thing.

Al Gore's Carbon Footprint Is Big.

Bob Krumm � debunking a rather lame debunking

While you're laughing, why don't you read the numerous reports of how big Ole Al's "carbon footprint" is, then figure out how many trees one has to plant to "offset" it - then shut up.

The truly funny thing is you (and other apologists) actually defending him for doing the EXACT opposite of what YOU (the collective you) have repeated over and over - ad nauseum - right here on this very forum, with the Reverend Shortcut to Moncton taking the pseudo-scientific lead in the sermons.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

And cue more excuses...

"B-but... the dog ate his homework!"

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

From that Travolta article:

Travolta, a Scientologist, claimed the solution to global warming could be found in outer space and blamed his hefty flying mileage on the nature of the movie business.

But of course! The nature of HIS business means he can use all the energy he pleases. It's just the nature of EVERYONE ELSE'S BUSINESS that doesn't matter a hill of beans. It's all those silly pleebs who aren't movie stars or movie-making politicians that need to do all the conserving, not these folks who actually have "IMPORTANT" jobs.

So typical! ALWAYS an excuse, ALWAYS a self-created exemption from these folks ever practicing what they preach.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

I never said a damned thing about the monetary costs of carbon offsets.

"And it would take a small country to offset the Gore-On's carbon footprint"

Whether you were measuring in money or not isn't relevant to what I said, which is that you didn't check your made-up facts.

I said that they are a boondoggle, and they are - the concept is akin to purchasing dispensations from the Pope to "offset" one's sins in the Middle Ages.

And the whole concept of "sins" is a boondoggle too. That doesn't mean they can't add "offsets" to the concept.

... while preaching to others to scrimp, cut down on their emissions, etc.

"etc." must be your code word for "buying carbon offsets," because he encourages people to do that too. If buying carbon offsets is part of his message, and you're complaining about him buying carbon offsets, then what you're complaining about does not include him being inconsistent with his message.

It seriously looks as if he wants all the rest of the residents of the planet to do as he says (including buy carbon offsets), so he can continue to live his life without giving up a single thing (except buying carbon offsets), as can everyone else.

fixed.

While you're laughing, why don't you read the numerous reports of how big Ole Al's "carbon footprint" is, then figure out how many trees one has to plant to "offset" it - then shut up.

According to Al Gore's website's carbon calculator (which is the only source you can use to argue what he's telling others to do), the average American emits 1250 pounds of CO2 per month, and according to google (carbonfootprint.com) a single tree absorbs about 730 kg of CO2 total. That calculates to 10 trees per year for the average american, or if Gore uses 20x that much, 200 trees per year. That's a damn small country indeed! That's smaller than even the smallest country, I'd say. He can probably plant that many just on his property.

The truly funny thing is you (and other apologists) actually defending him for doing the EXACT opposite of what YOU (the collective you) have repeated over and over - ad nauseum - right here on this very forum, with the Reverend Shortcut to Moncton taking the pseudo-scientific lead in the sermons.

Not me, buddy. But Shortcut has said he offsets his carbon too. Offsetting is part of the message. It's not "the EXACT opposite" of what they repeat over and over, it's exactly the same. Oops.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

But of course! The nature of HIS business means he can use all the energy he pleases. It's just the nature of EVERYONE ELSE'S BUSINESS that doesn't matter a hill of beans. It's all those silly pleebs who aren't movie stars or movie-making politicians that need to do all the conserving, not these folks who actually have "IMPORTANT" jobs.

I completely agree. But the nature of extravagance also allows those people who do it to buy extravagant amounts of carbon offsets too.

exemption from these folks ever practicing what they preach.

Since what they preach includes cabon offsets, what they're doing is exactly what they preach, if they're buying carbon offsets too.

[Macrobat]

Um, I know you aren't actually this thick. you just play it on the internet when it suits your needs.

I was talking about the number of trees that would have to be planted in order to "offset" his "carbon footprint" and the amount of LAND it would take to contain them. So, you can check your little "made-up facts" Bull Screed at the door. Thanks for playing.

What AlGore is saying is that he wants the REST of us to generate "carbon offsets" so that he, and others can purchase them BY scrimping, cutting down on our electric, gasoline, natural gas, etc. usage.

Sorry, the concept of sin is NOT a boondoggle to the VAST majority of this planet, your usage may vary.

And you didn't "fix" anything, since my argument is that carbon offsets are so much BS in the first place. All you did is insert your own disingenuous blather into my post.

Sorry, continuing to live any damned way you please and simply buying "carbon offsets" is NOT the way to affect the kind of change all you Warmers claim is needed. There are only so many "offsets" in the world and they don't actually "offset" anything you Warmers hold dear in the first place.

Please show me statistics that prove what Al has offset and how he did it, not simply money transfers. You are all so fond of your "science," please show us exactly what portion of Al's CF has been successfully "offset." Where is this massive forest located? Where is the actuall proof that any carbon has been "offset?" Simply pointing to one's checkbook and saying "I bought 'em" does NOT suffice. Not when you (again the colletive you) keep preaching to us about the severity of the emergency and cite reams of "facts" to support it's existence. Where is the same level of due diligence to PROVE the offsets both A) exist in the first place and B) are actually DOING one damned thing?

It's just like all the environuts who go out, buy a Prius, then start preaching the evils of every other kind of vehicle on the planet. Well, here's a shocker for you, the production of a Toyota Prius is worse on the environment than that of a Hummer (or any other vehicle).

The Recorder

Of course, the real question no Warmer has been able to successfully answer is:

"What is the temperature of the Earth supposed to be?

The Earth has been both warmer and cooler than it is now. Are humans so arrogant as to assume that the ideal temperature of the Earth is simply what it has been in recently recorder history as opposed to any other time in the chronology of the planet?

please, do edify us.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

I was talking about the number of trees that would have to be planted in order to "offset" his "carbon footprint" and the amount of LAND it would take to contain them.

And I told you

What AlGore is saying is that he wants the REST of us to generate "carbon offsets" so that he, and others can purchase them BY scrimping, cutting down on our electric, gasoline, natural gas, etc. usage.

That makes zero sense in light of the fact that he helped found one of the companies that sells the offsets.

It sounds very much like you have fabricated some argument you think Gore is making, and are railing against that made-up argument.

Sorry, the concept of sin is NOT a boondoggle to the VAST majority of this planet, your usage may vary.

And the concept of carbon offsets is NOT a boondoggle to the VAST majority of people who give a crap about this topic, which would be anyone who thinks that man-made CO2 is the major cause of global warming. Do you get it now?

And you didn't "fix" anything, since my completely unsubstantiated argument is that carbon offsets are so much BS in the first place.

fixed.

You can't claim something is evidence against the validity of carbon offsets when that thing doesn't mention carbon offsets even once. And simply stating your claim again and again while ignoring challenges to it does not constitute an "argument."

Sorry, continuing to live any damned way you please and simply buying "carbon offsets" is NOT the way to affect the kind of change all you Warmers claim is needed.

I agree (though I'm not one of the "warmers," whatever those are). I don't think focusing solely on CO2 is enough to change anything, and I don't think offsets are enough to change even CO2 levels much, though I don't have proof either way. But that doesn't change the fact that Gore has been consistent to the contrary (not a hypocrite).

[Macrobat]

The argument is only unsubstaintiated to you members of the Warmers religion, stop attempting to put words into my mouth.

He "founded the company." Whoopeeshit, where are the offsets and of what are they composed, thin air? It's not a "made-up" arguement, it's an accusation of falsehood and fraud.

The only way to GET "carbon offsets" to buy is for someone else to be using less than their arbitrarily assigned amount, so he can purchase their "excess."

I don't give a rat's patoot what you "told me," that was what my post meant - get over yourself.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

He "founded the company." Whoopeeshit, where are the offsets and of what are they composed, thin air?

It was argued in this thread that they were funding development of technologies that would increase energy efficiency and/or improve alternative energy sources. In the end, planting trees is a temporary strategy that only works until the trees die. The goal is to use that to buy time to develop technologies that free us from fossil fuels. In that respect, funding development of those technologies is a more effective measure than just planting trees.

I'm not saying I believe it, but that is the "carbon offsets" party line.

It's not a "made-up" arguement, it's an accusation of falsehood and fraud.

...

The only way to GET "carbon offsets" to buy is for someone else to be using less than their arbitrarily assigned amount, so he can purchase their "excess."

This is the part that's made-up. That statement is completely false.

I don't give a rat's patoot what you "told me," that was what my post meant - get over yourself.

You asked how many trees it would take and I told you (here's a hint: it was 200). The fact that you "don't give a rat's patoot" about the facts honestly doesn't surprise me in the least. You strike me as someone who cares about nothing but proving Gore wrong. Sorry you haven't been successful.

[Macrobat]

200? LMAO! For which WEEK of AlGore's life? We have his incessant jetting to and fro, his energy use at home, his zinc mine, his two-block limo rides, etc., etc., etc.

Try again - that figure is utterly laughable.

Okay, where is this R&D done and who is doing it? What is the progress of it? What specific products, technologies, services is it creating? How is this carbon being "offset?" Where is this envionmental bonanza that is magically erasing all his energy-hog activities?

Besides, how can anything that YOU YOURSELF even agree there is no evidence for be a "fact" in the first place?

"Made-up" argument, huh?

Carbon offset - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Emissions trading markets, such as the voluntary Chicago Climate Exchange, allow companies which have reduced emissions below a specified target to sell their remaining allowances to other companies which did not reach the target. Hence, this increases the monetary incentive for conservation. Systems like the European Union Emission Trading Scheme and the Clean Development Mechanism operate in a similar fashion at the inter-governmental level.

Need a tissue for that egg on your face?

And now, we have him actually over in Europe campaigning for the Nobel Peace prize as if it were some sort of high school student council election!

The guy is an utter assclown, but he is the Warmers' Messiah.

[tie]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

From that Travolta article:

But of course! The nature of HIS business means he can use all the energy he pleases. It's just the nature of EVERYONE ELSE'S BUSINESS that doesn't matter a hill of beans. It's all those silly pleebs who aren't movie stars or movie-making politicians that need to do all the conserving, not these folks who actually have "IMPORTANT" jobs.

So typical! ALWAYS an excuse, ALWAYS a self-created exemption from these folks ever practicing what they preach.

Too true. I guess you've given up on Gore, so fat mouth eTravolta is close enough.

Actually, if Travolta cared, he could offset his emissions as Gore does. It is pretty cheap, something like $15 to offset a flight across the US (last time I checked). Even if you travel a lot for your job, it isn't difficult to neutralize your net carbon emissions so you aren't contributing to global warming.

Am I missing something on this limo ride? Isn't a two-block limo ride about as short as it can be? Are you arguing it should have been longer, or that Gore shouldn't be allowed ever to ride in a limo?

[Macrobat]

The point is, he didn't have to ride in the limo in the first place. Plus, being as he is the former VP of the US, it's NOT just a limo, since he has a full-time SS contigent, as well as his personal staff. They literally climbed into cars simply in order to exit at the red carpet entrance. He's the one preaching "walk, ride a bike."

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

I completely agree. But the nature of extravagance also allows those people who do it to buy extravagant amounts of carbon offsets too.

So basically, everybody has their out. Here's the flipside: everyone else DOESN'T live so extravagantly, so they DON'T need to buy any friggen carbon offsets, they can just keep right on doing everything they've been doing also. Which is all basically to say: leave mankind alone, we're not the cause of any Global warming doomsday bullshit.

By the way, I agree with this. I just begs the question- what the F*** are all the Global Warming wankers going on about then? Everyone has their own self-invented out that they 'believe' exempts them, then everyone's covered. Problem solved. Either lead by an actual example, or STFU about it then.

Since what they preach includes cabon offsets, what they're doing is exactly what they preach, if they're buying carbon offsets too.

We've been over the issue of 'belief' vs. reality before- Travolta's a guy who 'believes' in another religion invented by a science fiction writer, as well as the Global Warming one.

He can "believe" the moon is made out of green cheese for all I care. It doesn't change the fact that his 'carbon offset' nonsense belief or believing that we need to dump our trash on mars or whatever, doesn't do JACK SQUAT in reality to change the fact that HE is a huge perpetrator of the very thing he's ranting about.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

200? LMAO! For which WEEK of AlGore's life?

It's 20x what his website says the average person would have to do. The entirety of this thread's objection was that he is using 20x what the average person uses, and that he's not carrying the burden he's asking the average person to carry. That's false, because the burden he's asking the average person to carry is far less than you seem to think it is. It's about 10 trees worth per year, roughly estimated.

We have his incessant jetting to and fro, his energy use at home, his zinc mine, his two-block limo rides, etc., etc., etc.

Would you say it's fair to call that 20x what the average person spends on those things? If so, my rough calculation still stands. PS: no one in his camp has suggested offsetting work-related energy use (IE zinc mines). All the carbon footprint calculators I've seen only deal with personal home energy use.

Try again - that figure is utterly laughable.

Haha! Beautiful. My "gut feeling" comment about you was dead on after all (it was just a guess). Rather than check into the facts yourself, even a little bit, you've opted to disregard the figure out-of-hand based on your gut feeling that it simply couldn't be that easy. Well done.

Okay, where is this R&D done and who is doing it? What is the progress of it? What specific products, technologies, services is it creating? How is this carbon being "offset?" Where is this envionmental bonanza that is magically erasing all his energy-hog activities?

Um, do your own homework?

Besides, how can anything that YOU YOURSELF even agree there is no evidence for be a "fact" in the first place?

I didn't say there was no evidence for it (there is), there's just not enough evidence to convince me personally. I can see how the evidence might be enough to convince others (like Gore). But the only "fact" I'm arguing here is that Gore is consistent with his message, namely that CO2 is the heart of the problem, and it can be fixed if everyone "offsets" their CO2 emissions, like he is doing.

And now, we have him actually over in Europe campaigning for the Nobel Peace prize as if it were some sort of high school student council election!

link?

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

The point is, he didn't have to ride in the limo in the first place. Plus, being as he is the former VP of the US, it's NOT just a limo, since he has a full-time SS contigent, as well as his personal staff. They literally climbed into cars simply in order to exit at the red carpet entrance. He's the one preaching "walk, ride a bike."

What we've learned here is that in order to exempt yourself from causing global warming, you simply have to "believe" you're exempt.


And so, certainly if energy hogs like alGore and Travolta are, then EVERYONE is!

Problem solved.