[Orion27]

Originally Posted by subego 

Did a bit of Googling.

Hard to say whether the original article was trying to pull a fast one, as my research is a little inconclusive, but from what I can piece together, Generation Investment Management is (and presents itself as) an investment company. One of the perks of being an employee is that they buy offsets for your personal and work emissions.

So he isn't buying offsets from his company, which doesn't sell offsets.

Significantly less shady.



Edit: if the above is true, this seems to be Gore's rep's fault:

"Gore helped found Generation Investment Management, through which he and others pay for offsets. The firm invests the money in solar, wind and other projects that reduce energy consumption around the globe, she [Krider] said."

Either Gore's rep (Krider) did a really bad job of explaining things or the article's writer was being deliberately deceptive.

As the article seems pretty neutral, I'm going to guess the former.

Gore owns the company and is not an employee. Maybe Tipper is though. I'd love to see those tax returns. Talk about corporate welfare.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by subego 

Hard to say whether the original article was trying to pull a fast one, as my research is a little inconclusive, but from what I can piece together, Generation Investment Management is (and presents itself as) an investment company. One of the perks of being an employee is that they buy offsets for your personal and work emissions.

So he isn't buying offsets from his company, which doesn't sell offsets.

Significantly less shady.

Not ANY less shady. And as it's been stated, Gore is more than just an employee.

So let's see. Gore is the chairman who may or may not getting stock from the investments of the company, but is likely to be getting compensated. The company also pays for his offsets.

Gore does NOTHING to help the environment himself, is a HUGE carbon polluter, and actually profits from the pollution of others. He pollutes at least 12 times more than the average american (and probably more when you factor in how much more air miles he has) and doesn't even buy his own offsets? He pollutes extravagantly without ANY sacrifice. He lets everyone else do the "heavy lifting" while he goes on acting like he's one of those "big oil" companies. What a kook!

If Gore can pollute without any sacrifice, why can't everyone else? Unless of course, Al Gore is special and thinks his brand of BS only applies to everyone else. He clearly doesn't believe what he says himself.

[Orion27]

And if you read the stratiegies they use for offsets, it's quite interesing. They purchase/rent cheap land in Africa and plant trees/or keep it from developement. The fact is the science may not support the strategy. Green plants are a significant source of methane. Forests are also heat sinks and soak up solar enerergy. Water vapor ( steamy jungle anyone? ) is the major greenhouse gas. Now there is debate whether the net carbon uptake by forests offset the effects of methane production. It could go either way. The studies I've read were done independent of the water vapor and heat sink effects. So by planting trees ( monoculture anyone? ) an anthropogenic effect, may have the opposite effect of reducing global warming, regardless of carbon offsets. Now we could turn to the effects of monoculture at the expense of diversity. Diversity is what makes life worth living, but I want to get away from religion. Well, after we discover vast tree farms are acutually harmfull, Gore and company to could turn to developement projects in an unregulated African market. Neat idea. Investment anyone?

[subego]

stupendousman: Buying offsets from your own company that engages in the dubious practice of offsetting carbon through investments is equally shady as getting your run-of-the-mill investment company to buy you offsets as a perk? Is this what you are saying?

I'm open minded and all, but if you are going assess such obviously unequal entities as equal, it leaves me very little choice but to think you're pushing an agenda.


Orion27: You missed my earlier post even though you replied to it. Gore's crony got it wrong. Those aren't the strategies GIM uses for offsets. They don't sell offsets. GIM is an investment company, just like any other investment company.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Orion27 

Gore owns the company and is not an employee.

So I think it's safe to assume he gets the same or better perks, no?

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by subego 

stupendousman: Buying offsets from your own company that engages in the dubious practice of offsetting carbon through investments is equally shady as getting your run-of-the-mill investment company to buy you offsets as a perk? Is this what you are saying?

Shady is shady. I'm really not going to go the moral equivalentcy route. The fact is Gore is clearly a hypocrite and is profiting from pollution. THAT is what I'm saying.

[subego]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

I'm really not going to go the moral equivalentcy route.

How convenient for you.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by subego 

How convenient for you.

How UNconvenient for you. You want to play the "well..maybe it's not as bad as you think, so really Gore is doing good" game, when it's clear that Gore isn't doing anything other than helping himself.

Sorry for your inconvenience.

[subego]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

How UNconvenient for you. You want to play the "well..maybe it's not as bad as you think, so really Gore is doing good" game, when it's clear that Gore isn't doing anything other than helping himself.

Sorry for your inconvenience.

Where have I said anything about Gore doing good?

If you're going to argue with some bogeyman inside your head, why the **** bother posting it?

[tie]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

How UNconvenient for you. You want to play the "well..maybe it's not as bad as you think, so really Gore is doing good" game, when it's clear that Gore isn't doing anything other than helping himself.

Sorry for your inconvenience.

stupendous, if subego's information is correct, then the original article is wrong (and the title of this thread is wrong) and there is nothing at all shady going on. Read it again. I guess we need more details to be sure.

[stupendousman]

We need more information to determine that Gore is an energy hog who uses dubious methods to excuse his lack of desire to conserve?

Sorry...I don't see the "information" being THAT wrong.

[subego]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

We need more information to determine that Gore is an energy hog who uses dubious methods to excuse his lack of desire to conserve?

Sorry...I don't see the "information" being THAT wrong.

You have threadlexia.

That's the other thread. This is Gore Buys Offsets from Own Company.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by subego 

You have threadlexia.

That's the other thread. This is Gore Buys Offsets from Own Company.

Right. The "dubious" part.

[tie]

Read subego's post, stupendous. If correct, then the correct thread title should be:
Gore Does Not Buy Offsets from Own Company

If this is what you call "the dubious part," then I think we agree that there is nothing dubious.

[subego]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

Right. The "dubious" part.

No. The dubious part is from own company.

There are TWO whole other threads designed specifically so you can fling your poo.

Get some self control.

[Snow-i]

I'm not so sure the conservative movement shuold be scrutinizing so heavily over Gore's dealings here. Its really quite aparent that there is an agenda on BOTH sides of this one. Its a fruitless endeavor. Trying to prove an (ex?) politican corrupt or a moral saint will only end in arguments falling on deaf ears. This one is directly related to the GW debate thats going on in 3 other threads here, and I'm pretty sure Gore's innocence or guilt in having an alternate agenda will be inconsequential to proving GW Climageddon true or false.

Argue from the facts guys quit trying to get rid of everyone else's credibility, it really only deminishes yours.

---

To subego's credit he has done an excellent job of presenting/interpreting the evidence for this particular case. Props

[subego]

Thanks!