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marden · 04:29 AM

New York High School Lifts Suspensions of 3 Students for Using 'Vagina' on Stage

Tuesday , March 13, 2007

WHITE PLAINS, New York —
The one-day suspensions imposed on three high school students for including the word "vagina" in a reading from "The Vagina Monologues" have been rescinded, one of the girls' mother said Tuesday.
[...]
"My short skirt is a liberation flag in the women's army," the excerpt went. "I declare these streets, any streets, my vagina's country."

FOXNews.com - New York High School Lifts Suspensions of 3 Students for Using 'Vagina' on Stage - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

I tell you there are folks across this country who are ready and eager to give away our rights. Maybe if they had to pay something to defend our rights they'd have a greater interest in protecting them than in surrendering them.

And where is the ACLU in these many instances I've cited?

Nowhere!

God bless Anne Coulter! She was the one taking heat over using the word faggot in public so that you and I and these school kids will have the right to say VAGINA (for example) in public.

Tiresias · Mar 14, 2007, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by marden

FOXNews.com - New York High School Lifts Suspensions of 3 Students for Using 'Vagina' on Stage - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

I tell you there are folks across this country who are ready and eager to give away our rights. Maybe if they had to pay something to defend our rights they'd have a greater interest in protecting them than in surrendering them.

And where is the ACLU in these many instances I've cited?

Nowhere!

God bless Anne Coulter! She was the one taking heat over using the word faggot in public so that you and I and these school kids will have the right to say VAGINA (for example) in public.

This reminds me of a certain list of airports in the Montreal area:

List of airports in the Montreal area.

Montréal-Pierre Elliott Trudeau International Airport (CYUL)
Montréal/St-Hubert Airport (CYHU)
Montréal-Mirabel International Airport (CYMX)
Montréal/Aéroparc Île Perrot (CSP6)
Montréal/Les Cèdres Airport (CSS3)
Montréal/St-Lazare Airport (CST3)
Montréal/Mascouche Airport (CSK3)
Lachute Airport (CSE4)
Alexandria Airport (CNS4)
Hawkesbury Airport (CNV4)
Hawkesbury (East) Airport (CPG5)
Hawkesbury (Windover Field) Airport (CPD8)
Valleyfield Airport (CBV7)
Lac Agile (Mascouche) Airport (CSA2)
Chambly Airport (CTT2)
Richelieu Airport (CSX3)
St-Jean-sur-Richelieu Airport (CYJN)
St-Mathias Airport (CSP5)
St-Mathias/Grant Airport (CSX5)
St-Mathieu-De-Beloeil Airport (CSB3)

marden · Mar 14, 2007, 04:31 AM

Originally Posted by Tiresias

This reminds me of a certain list of airports in the Montreal area:

Why? Because those are the only safe havens for saying "faggot" and "vagina" in all of politically correct Canada?

analogika · Mar 14, 2007, 04:42 AM

"vagina" and "faggot" are equivalent in the same way the words "Italian" and "n-i-g-g-e-r" are equivalent.

And Ann Coulter is still a rabid bigoted ****bitch.

Madrag · Mar 14, 2007, 05:12 AM

why did you censor the word vagina in the topic title?

marden · Mar 14, 2007, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

"vagina" and "faggot" are equivalent in the same way the words "Italian" and "n-i-g-g-e-r" are equivalent.

And Ann Coulter is still a rabid bigoted ****bitch.

And it's good to see that you and Ann are standing side by side on the front lines, braving the slings and arrows of outrageous politically correct censors, to defend our freedom of speech.

Except that you actually don't, but Ann actually does.

marden · Mar 14, 2007, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by Madrag

why did you censor the word vagina in the topic title?

Possibly NSFW.

Madrag · Mar 14, 2007, 05:27 AM

but that's the point of the topic!
the students where going to be suspended by using it, and I think to make a point about the liberty of speech I woulnd't have censored it.

BTW I don't see any problem with the word vagina, as also with penis.
now if you were using the "c**t" word, I think that one wouldn't be safe (also, if the students used the C instead of the Vagina, I still don't think a suspension would be a good idea, but if I were supervising the reading, I would advise to not use it...)

It all depends on the level of offense that words can have to different cultures/people, doesn't it?
In the right context they wouldn't offend me, and the vagina's monologue is the right context, I don't see why anyone would be offended, the title said it already dind't it?

marden · Mar 14, 2007, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by Madrag

but that's the point of the topic!
the students where going to be suspended by using it, and I think to make a point about the liberty of speech I woulnd't have censored it.

BTW I don't see any problem with the word vagina, as also with penis.
now if you were using the "c**t" word, I think that one wouldn't be safe (also, if the students used the C instead of the Vagina, I still don't think a suspension would be a good idea, but if I were supervising the reading, I would advise to not use it...)

It all depends on the level of offense that words can have to different cultures/people, doesn't it?
In the right context they wouldn't offend me, and the vagina's monologue is the right context, I don't see why anyone would be offended, the title said it already dind't it?

In recent weeks there have been a number of examples of individuals and organizations which have voluntarily imposed censorship rules on Americans and there has been no real hue and cry about these infringements of free expression because of a growing acceptance of political correctness.

This political correctness is being embraced by Americans without our full knowledge of its implications even though it is EXACTLY what we were telling the extremists who protested in the Cartoon Riots that freedom of speech means.

Even though words might be offensive it's better to have freedom of speech than censorship and political correctness.

But that PC is creeping over America and only a few seem to be worried about these examples of censorship that we've not seen before.

PER3 · Mar 14, 2007, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by Madrag

why did you censor the word vagina in the topic title?

Probably because it's such an ugly word.

Kevin · Mar 14, 2007, 06:21 AM

Remember, freedom of speech doesn't just means things you want or like to hear. It also means those things you don't want to.

You have to take the good with the bad.

Can't say "this is ok, but this is not"

Well other than cases of screaming "fire" in a theatre etc.

marden · Mar 14, 2007, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by PER3

Probably because it's such an ugly word.

I said it was because it might possibly be NSFW* for some here. I reasoned that those who might work in repressive environments would be forewarned by the asterisks and would refrain from opening this thread until it was safe for them.

There are all kinds of faggots and vaginas here INSIDE the thread but I'm trying to keep people from getting in trouble by letting THEM make the choice of whether 'vagina' was safe for them to read or not.

*NSFW = NOT SAFE FOR WORK

Doofy · Mar 14, 2007, 06:30 AM

New York High School Lifts Suspensions of 3 Students for Using Vagina on Stage

The headline made me chortle. Must have been some show.

Oh, and the fact that, as a Brit vegetarian, I can say "I hate faggots" completely innocently makes me chortle too.

marden · Mar 14, 2007, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

The headline made me chortle. Must have been some show.

Oh, and the fact that, as a Brit vegetarian, I can say "I hate faggots" completely innocently makes me chortle too.

[img]http://www.cockeyed.com/naughty/faggots-01.jpg

I was so focused on the freedom of speech implications that I was completely oblivious to the double entendre in the headline. It is funny!

starman · Mar 14, 2007, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Madrag

why did you censor the word vagina in the topic title?

marden · Mar 14, 2007, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by starman

We all know MacNN and participation here is not a fair representation of real life.

In real life I could view X-rated pix but if I posted it here it would be censored. And borderline pix without a warning in the title would result in some reader getting in trouble at work.

The consideration I showed for those folks at work by ****** the word VAGINA in the title has everything to do with wanting to remain a poster in good standing.

starman · Mar 14, 2007, 08:17 AM

It wouldn't have killed you to PM 'Hood or something before posting. I just think it's terribly funny that you purposely remove the word from the topic but the post is about censorship.

marden · Mar 14, 2007, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by starman

It wouldn't have killed you to PM 'Hood or something before posting. I just think it's terribly funny that you purposely remove the word from the topic but the post is about censorship.

I can appreciate the irony.

analogika · Mar 14, 2007, 08:24 AM

It's because that's what Ann Coulter would have done.

I'm sure he wouldn't have censored it if this thread were about faggots.

marden · Mar 14, 2007, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

It's because that's what Ann Coulter would have done.

I'm sure he wouldn't have censored it if this thread were about faggots.

The two words are different. They have different meanings and the world reacts to them in different ways. My realization of this has nothing to do with my personal feelings as much as the recognition that in company CEO's will talk about faggots over the dinner table but not vaginas.

You got a problem with that?

Take it up with your bosses.

analogika · Mar 14, 2007, 08:51 AM

Look - now he thinks he knows my bosses!

Kevin · Mar 14, 2007, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by starman

It wouldn't have killed you to PM 'Hood or something before posting. I just think it's terribly funny that you purposely remove the word from the topic but the post is about censorship.

Depends on the reason he did it. He did it for a valid reason. And to make a point.

That was probably lost on some.

wallinbl · Mar 14, 2007, 08:59 AM

Congratulations on finding another example of profanity in public. Hey, did you watch the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame induction? There was profanity on that show. Also, when I go to the horse track, I hear a lot of people swearing about the horses. You know, I probably need new threads for these.

analogika · Mar 14, 2007, 09:02 AM

"Vagina"? Profane?

What?

centerchannel68 · Mar 14, 2007, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

"Vagina"? Profane?

What?

Indeed. What's wrong with vagina?

Chuckit · Mar 14, 2007, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by centerchannel68

Indeed. What's wrong with vagina?

It depends on which one we're talking about.

marden · Mar 14, 2007, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

Look - now he thinks he knows my bosses!

There you are thinking about the well being of others again...NOT!

If you insist on being self centered and insensitive to the other posters here I'll continue encouraging you to continue demonstrating that lack of regard for others so I can continue to criticize you for it.

Ladies and Gents analogika is employing anal logik by ass uming that everyone has HIS morality and he cares nothing about how your supervisor, manager or boss might react if they saw a big VAGINA on the menu page. Basically, he is using my concern for your job to criticize me.

I think you should let him know how you feel.

Thanks.

Jim Paradise · Mar 14, 2007, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by marden

There you are thinking about the well being of others again...NOT!

If you insist on being self centered and insensitive to the other posters here I'll continue encouraging you to continue demonstrating that lack of regard for others so I can continue to criticize you for it.

Ladies and Gents analogika is employing anal logik by ass uming that everyone has HIS morality and he cares nothing about how your supervisor, manager or boss might react if they saw a big VAGINA on the menu page. Basically, he is using my concern for your job to criticize me.

I think you should let him know how you feel.

Thanks.

analogika, keep up the good work. Your posts are almost always appreciated.

Kevin · Mar 14, 2007, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Paradise

analogika, keep up the good work. Your posts are almost always appreciated.

I could agree with this.

Madrag · Mar 14, 2007, 09:49 AM

what about the reaction of the boss when a worker is browsing a forum at worktime?

marden · Mar 14, 2007, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

I could agree with this.

What would Ali have been without the likes of Karl Mildenberger and others of his ilk?

We must appreciate their contributions.

I'm going to prove my point. Watch and see.

marden · Mar 14, 2007, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Madrag

what about the reaction of the boss when a worker is browsing a forum at worktime?

There are some employers who frown on ALL such browsing. Others draw the line at sexual content and profanity. That is why the abbreviation NSFW exists.

Madrag · Mar 14, 2007, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by marden

There are some employers who frown on ALL such browsing. Others draw the line at sexual content and profanity. That is why the abbreviation NSFW exists.

I've worked in places where *browsing* was forbidden, the internet was meant just for research, and damn you if the boss saw *something* that would he would think was recreational!

Fortunately I'm my own boss now and I could have playboy.com open in my second monitor all day long

I hate censorship.

andi*pandi · Mar 14, 2007, 11:07 AM

I should hope that vagina isn't--or doesn't become--a hate word like faggot. They are not the same at all, as analogika said.

The story is an example of the confusion between basic body parts and implied sexuality/immorality. If after all, we teach young children to use the proper names for their bodies, then how can those words be offensive? Is it any more offensive than elbow or shin?

Why have allow a reading from the Vagina Monologues if you can't say the word.

centerchannel68 · Mar 14, 2007, 11:27 AM

Except Vagina is not a sexual word, nor is it profane. It's a ****ing bodypart. I would agree with you if you used pussy, snatch, hatchet wound, bearded clam, cooter, etc....but you didn't, you used the proper medical term, and it is NOT a dirty word. It's accepted, and people need to get over their ****ing vagina phobia and be able to say vagina in public. Everybody can say penis, so you can say vagina too.

Madrag · Mar 14, 2007, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

(…) Is it any more offensive than elbow or shin?

you said shin (blush)

I agree 100% with you.

Originally Posted by centerchannel68

Everybody can say penis, so you can say vagina too.

Just so I understand better the American culture, you mean Penis is accepeted and Vagina isn't?

OldManMac · Mar 14, 2007, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by marden

FOXNews.com - New York High School Lifts Suspensions of 3 Students for Using 'Vagina' on Stage - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

I tell you there are folks across this country who are ready and eager to give away our rights. Maybe if they had to pay something to defend our rights they'd have a greater interest in protecting them than in surrendering them.

And where is the ACLU in these many instances I've cited?

Nowhere!

God bless Anne Coulter! She was the one taking heat over using the word faggot in public so that you and I and these school kids will have the right to say VAGINA (for example) in public.

In your usual rush to sensationalize everything you post, you completely forget, or ignore, that these are two different circumstances. Ann Coulter did indeed have the right to use the word "Faggot:" the question there was whether it was appropriate and it also showed her, and her defenders', lack of class and inability to discuss anything without lowering themselves to the trailer trash level. In other words, as you seem to be a little slow on the uptake, even though it's been pointed out to you before, there is a difference between rights and the responsibility to conduct oneself in an appropriate manner in public (unless of course, one doesn't care if they project the image of Jerry Springer behavior, which is obviously the case here).

These students were using the word in a context of being part of a play, which has been around for several years, and the word vagina, although it makes some uncomfortable is simply a part of the body, and as such, these students were wrongly punished.

So, one more time; what Ann Coulter said was legal, although wrong in the context in which it was used. What these girls did was also legal, although they were wrongly punished. Also, you're a little behind the times. If you had bothered to even read the headline you posted, it noted that the suspensions were already lifted. And if you had bothered to read the article, you would have noted that the New York Civil Liberties Union did issue a statement in support of the girls. But, so much for your comprehension skills; it's more important to sensationalize something than it is to get it correct.

One thing you are correct about. In the thread about Ann Coulter, you mentioned that she had balls. That obviously confirms that she doesn't have a vagina.

centerchannel68 · Mar 14, 2007, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Madrag

Just so I understand better the American culture, you mean Penis is accepeted and Vagina isn't?

Yep. Retarded, isn't it? And it's perpetuated by people like whoever started this post and decided to censor vagina.

::maroma:: · Mar 14, 2007, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by marden

God bless Anne Coulter! She was the one taking heat over using the word faggot in public so that you and I and these school kids will have the right to say VAGINA (for example) in public.

So you equate ignorant hate speech used in a political context with the medical term for female genitalia used in a school play? You need to think a little deeper about what you're doing here Marden. Don't post about it, think about it.

invisibleX · Mar 14, 2007, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by marden

I tell you there are folks across this country who are ready and eager to give away our rights. Maybe if they had to pay something to defend our rights they'd have a greater interest in protecting them than in surrendering them.

This of course extends to anti-war protests during a war, right?

PER3 · Mar 14, 2007, 12:45 PM

Old lady: Oh, dear—the doctor says I've got acute angina

Her husband: Your legs ain't too bad, either

Chuckit · Mar 14, 2007, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by marden

In recent weeks there have been a number of examples of individuals and organizations which have voluntarily imposed censorship rules on Americans and there has been no real hue and cry about these infringements of free expression because of a growing acceptance of political correctness.

News flash: Schools have always had rules for their students.

And how is banning "vagina" politically correct? It seems to me that kowtowing to pressure over The Vagina Monologues is more PC.

besson3c · Mar 14, 2007, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

I should hope that vagina isn't--or doesn't become--a hate word like faggot. They are not the same at all, as analogika said.

The story is an example of the confusion between basic body parts and implied sexuality/immorality. If after all, we teach young children to use the proper names for their bodies, then how can those words be offensive? Is it any more offensive than elbow or shin?

Why have allow a reading from the Vagina Monologues if you can't say the word.

But... your boss wouldn't say vagina at his dinner table!

andi*pandi · Mar 14, 2007, 02:52 PM

My boss is a doctor! You never know!

centerchannel68 · Mar 14, 2007, 02:55 PM

Maybe I'll change my name to Vagina68.

Doofy · Mar 14, 2007, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Madrag

Just so I understand better the American culture, you mean Penis is accepeted and Vagina isn't?

That sounds more like Canada, actually.

besson3c · Mar 14, 2007, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by centerchannel68

Maybe I'll change my name to Vagina68.

I like Vagina69 more...

besson3c · Mar 14, 2007, 03:26 PM

Marden, you are in really rare form these days...

I love the threads that you make such a huge commotion about and try to inspire us to arms over things we see as nearly entirely insignificant. Maybe my Patrick Swayze thread needs a little more controversy?

Chuckit · Mar 14, 2007, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

If after all, we teach young children to use the proper names for their bodies, then how can those words be offensive? Is it any more offensive than elbow or shin?

If you consider casual mention of the reproductive system to be offensive, yes. It's not really rational to be offended by more vulgar names for your body parts either. Offense is an emotional response.

marden · Mar 14, 2007, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

I should hope that vagina isn't--or doesn't become--a hate word like faggot. They are not the same at all, as analogika said.

The story is an example of the confusion between basic body parts and implied sexuality/immorality. If after all, we teach young children to use the proper names for their bodies, then how can those words be offensive? Is it any more offensive than elbow or shin?

Why have allow a reading from the Vagina Monologues if you can't say the word.

There are two debates going on here. The important one being the recognition that banning use of the word, "vagina" is a step in the wrong direction. The second debate is whether I was being hypocritical by censoring that same word, "vagina" when I began this thread.

Addressing the larger issue, your point MIGHT WELL BE that vagina isn't a hate word and I think I already made that distinction. However, to the second debate, that isn't why I refrained from using it in this thread title.

I did so in recognition of those who might get in trouble for surfing MacNN's menu and having a big ole VAGINA in the thread title. It was simply a way of helping our fellow posters avoid problems and to give them a quick and easy warning that this word will be part of the discussion and if anyone might get in trouble for having a discussion about censorship using the word VAGINA they should steer clear.

The evidence necessary to show my true intent SHOULD be clear by the unrestrained use of the word VAGINA WITHIN the thread.