[marden]

This is a report from the Sunday Times. Can we believe it? Or should we believe Mister Rogers?

From The Sunday Times
March 18, 2007
Iraqis: life is getting better
Marie Colvin

MOST Iraqis believe life is better for them now than it was under Saddam Hussein, according to a British opinion poll published today.

The survey of more than 5,000 Iraqis found the majority optimistic despite their suffering in sectarian violence since the American-led invasion four years ago this week.

One in four Iraqis has had a family member murdered, says the poll by Opinion Research Business. In Baghdad, the capital, one in four has had a relative kidnapped and one in three said members of their family had fled abroad. But when asked whether they preferred life under Saddam, the dictator who was executed last December, or under Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, most replied that things were better for them today.

Only 27% think there is a civil war in Iraq, compared with 61% who do not, according to the survey carried out last month.

Resilient Iraqis ask what civil war?

Violence slashed as troop surge hits Baghdad

By a majority of two to one, Iraqis believe military operations now under way will disarm all militias. More than half say security will improve after a withdrawal of multinational forces.

Margaret Beckett, the foreign secretary, said the findings pointed to progress. “There is no widespread violence in the four southern provinces and the fact that the picture is more complex than the stereotype usually portrayed is reflected in today’s poll,” she said.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1530762.ece

[OldManMac]

That paper must be the British equivalent of Faux News, or Newsminimum.

This also belongs in the Political/War lounge.

[marden]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

That paper must be the British equivalent of Faux News, or Newsminimum.

This also belongs in the Political/War lounge.

No, we are discussing whether the media can be believed. This just happens to be a compelling story which may be a false story, as you point out. Should we have every news story relegated to a room specifically for that topic?

How ridiculous!

[zro]

Mister Rogers.

[marden]

Originally Posted by zro 

Mister Rogers.

Well, maybe in that article.

But which one would you believe in this instance, the Times or Mister Rogers?

From The Sunday Times
March 18, 2007
Resilient Iraqis ask what civil war?
Marie Colvin

DESPITE sectarian slaughter, ethnic cleansing and suicide bombs, an opinion poll conducted on the eve of the fourth anniversary of the US-led invasion of Iraq has found a striking resilience and optimism among the inhabitants.

The poll, the biggest since coalition troops entered Iraq on March 20, 2003, shows that by a majority of two to one, Iraqis prefer the current leadership to Saddam Hussein’s regime, regardless of the security crisis and a lack of public services.

The survey, published today, also reveals that contrary to the views of many western analysts, most Iraqis do not believe they are embroiled in a civil war.

Officials in Washington and London are likely to be buoyed by the poll conducted by Opinion Research Business (ORB), a respected British market research company that funded its own survey of 5,019 Iraqis over the age of 18.

Violence slashed as troop surge hits Baghdad

The 400 interviewers who fanned out across Iraq last month found that the sense of security felt by Baghdad residents had significantly improved since polling carried out before the US announced in January that it was sending in a “surge” of more than 20,000 extra troops.

The poll highlights the impact the sectarian violence has had. Some 26% of Iraqis - 15% of Sunnis and 34% of Shi’ites - have suffered the murder of a family member. Kidnapping has also played a terrifying role: 14% have had a relative, friend or colleague abducted, rising to 33% in Baghdad.

Yet 49% of those questioned preferred life under Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, to living under Saddam. Only 26% said things had been better in Saddam’s era, while 16% said the two leaders were as bad as each other and the rest did not know or refused to answer.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1530526.ece

[besson3c]

Mister Rogers

[marden]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Mister Rogers

Well, if Mister Rogers were here I'm sure he'd be happy that life is getting better in Iraq and I bet he'd be very pleased to know that the Iraqis aren't in the middle of a civil war.

And I'm sure you'd believe him then as well.

Funny, but I thought you'd all be joyous at hearing this wonderful news seeing as how you and your fellows seemed so worried about the Iraqis' well being and our prospects for success. So why are you so subdued?

[OldManMac]

Keep trying to convince yourself.

[besson3c]

Well, I was reading an article that Mr. T wrote the other day that said that life in Iraq is very similar to life during the Vietnam war.

[Chuckit]

Mister Rogers always taught us to seek peaceful resolutions to our problems.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by marden 

No, we are discussing whether the media can be believed. This just happens to be a compelling story which may be a false story, as you point out. Should we have every news story relegated to a room specifically for that topic?

How ridiculous!

Guess who's ridiculous now?

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by marden 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1530526.ece

I've not seen a substantive refutation of this post Marden. My vote goes to the Times on this one.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Mister Rogers always taught us to seek peaceful resolutions to our problems.

Being an ordained minister, he taught and spoke of many things we're unlikely to follow. Peaceful resolutions are nothing more than contractual agreements among humans and only have as much integrity as the people behind them. They can lure the unwitting and naive to a false sense of security and facilitate their demise.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

I've not seen a substantive refutation of this post Marden. My vote goes to the Times on this one.

The Iraqis saying they're not in a civil war is like 19th-century Southerners saying they don't have a racism problem. Their entire area of the world is a giant civil war.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

That paper must be the British equivalent of Faux News, or Newsminimum.

This also belongs in the Political/War lounge.

Why? Because it doesn't tell you the gloom and doom you WANT BADLY to hear?

This post you just made says a lot.

"Can't be true, it's not negative"

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

The Iraqis saying they're not in a civil war is like 19th-century Southerners saying they don't have a racism problem. Their entire area of the world is a giant civil war.

You guys are so desperate and eager for failure nothing will change your mind.

Iraq could turn into Utopia and you'd still hiss and honk that is was junk.

Partisan political zealousness is the new terrorism.

[earthlings]

RIP Mister Fred Rogers

[Atomic Rooster]

An average of 100 civilians were murdered everyday in Iraq during 2006.

That's some scary ****.

Mr. Rogers rolls during his dirtnap.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

You guys are so desperate and eager for failure nothing will change your mind.

Iraq could turn into Utopia and you'd still hiss and honk that is was junk.

Partisan political zealousness is the new terrorism.

What are you on about?