[Kevin]

What was meant by "Mission Accomplished"

Did it just mean overthrowing Saddam? Or did it mean All of fighting in Iraq?

BEFORE answering, in Bush's "mission accomplished speech. He said this,

We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We are bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous. We are pursuing and finding leaders of the old regime, who will be held to account for their crimes.

NOW without spinning off about something else, and ignoring this statement above (Which is what all the Bush haters have been doing the past 3 days)

I want that statement explained as to what it meant.

Either Bush felt the war in Iraq was done, and contradicted himself, OR He knew that there would still be fighting left to do.

It's one of the two above. Pick

Logically I cannot be anything other than the two.

Either he contradicted himself, or he wasn't.

You CANNOT say Bush thought all battles and danger was over reading that statement. Unless of course you feel he was contradicting himself.

This is a NO SPIN zone. Any SPINS will be discredited and labeled so.

[Warren Pease]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

It's one of the two above. Pick

Shouldn't this be a poll then?

It's an inflated charge and is basically meaningless. There are plenty of bigger issues that should be looked at, such as:

The Redirection

To undermine Iran, which is predominantly Shiite, the Bush Administration has decided, in effect, to reconfigure its priorities in the Middle East. In Lebanon, the Administration has coöperated with Saudi Arabia’s government, which is Sunni, in clandestine operations that are intended to weaken Hezbollah, the Shiite organization that is backed by Iran. The U.S. has also taken part in clandestine operations aimed at Iran and its ally Syria. A by-product of these activities has been the bolstering of Sunni extremist groups that espouse a militant vision of Islam and are hostile to America and sympathetic to Al Qaeda.

One contradictory aspect of the new strategy is that, in Iraq, most of the insurgent violence directed at the American military has come from Sunni forces, and not from Shiites. But, from the Administration’s perspective, the most profound—and unintended—strategic consequence of the Iraq war is the empowerment of Iran. Its President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has made defiant pronouncements about the destruction of Israel and his country’s right to pursue its nuclear program, and last week its supreme religious leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said on state television that “realities in the region show that the arrogant front, headed by the U.S. and its allies, will be the principal loser in the region.”

How does this jive with Mission Accomplished? Fighting and funding insurgents at the same time?

[BlueSky]

It simply meant "I strutted on the deck of a carrier in my awesome flight suit, codpiece, helmet 'n stuff and I am awesome. And now our nation must come together to unite."

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Warren Pease 

It's an inflated charge and is basically meaningless.

What charge is that?

Originally Posted by Warren Pease 

How does this jive with Mission Accomplished?

Um what does overthrowing Saddam (The Mission) have anything to do with your quoted text?

And if you claim that "Mission Accomplished" meant more than just Saddam, how come Bush contradicted himself when he said

We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We are bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous. We are pursuing and finding leaders of the old regime, who will be held to account for their crimes.

So he either contradicted himself. Or "Mission Accomplished" was purely overthrowing Saddam. WHICH BTW is what that MISSION was about.

Explain.

This thread isn't about if you think Bush underestimated what would eventually happen.This is about what Mission Accomplished meant at that time.

Any other spin or gibberish will be ignored.

[Warren Pease]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

What charge is that?

Mission Accomplished (in this case) meant toppling Hussein and the taking of Baghdad. It is one of the successfull missions. It did not mean that all the problems in Iraq were over. It was a PR stunt that got a mixed reaction.

There are other missions that we can't call accomplished yet, because we appear to be undermining our own stated efforts.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Warren Pease 

Mission Accomplished (in this case) meant toppling Hussein and the taking of Baghdad. It is one of the successfull missions.

CORRECT!

It did not mean that all the problems in Iraq were over.

I can agree with that.

It was a PR stunt

Yup, been going on since there was Presidents and Leaders. Not new to Bush.

that got a mixed reaction.

Yes, some got it, some did not. A lot didn't on purpose.

WE are in agreement.

Thank you.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Kevin

What was meant by "Mission Accomplished"

Did it just mean overthrowing Saddam? Or did it mean All of fighting in Iraq?
...
It's one of the two above. Pick

Logically I cannot be anything other than the two.

Nonsense. It meant neither of your choices. Of course he didn't mean ALL fighting in Iraq was over, and he said they still had "difficult work to do." No one has ever argued that. It is just your imaginary straw man.

But he also didn't convey (and, more seriously, I don't believe they planned for) what actually did happen after that speech.

He also clearly didn't refer just to overthrowing Saddam, because he barely mentioned it in his speech, and instead talked on and on about the grand meaning of what had just happened, comparing it to Normandy, Iwo Jima, the defeat of the Nazis, and the defeat of Japan.

Originally Posted by Bush

Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.

Originally Posted by Bush

Because of you, our nation is more secure.

Originally Posted by Bush

The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11, 2001 -- and still goes on.

Originally Posted by Bush

The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We've removed an ally of al Qaeda, and cut off a source of terrorist funding.

Originally Posted by Bush

Our war against terror is proceeding according to principles that I have made clear to all: Any person involved in committing or planning terrorist attacks against the American people becomes an enemy of this country, and a target of American justice.

Originally Posted by Bush

The advance of freedom is the surest strategy to undermine the appeal of terror in the world. Where freedom takes hold, hatred gives way to hope. When freedom takes hold, men and women turn to the peaceful pursuit of a better life. American values and American interests lead in the same direction: We stand for human liberty.

I could go on. According to Bush's speech under that sign, this wasn't the end of fighting in Iraq, but it was a huge turning point in the war on terror. He was, to say the least, very, very wrong. That's why people, absolutely deservedly, criticize Bush for the speech. Not because they're claiming Bush said "ALL fighting in Iraq" was over.

[Warren Pease]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Um what does overthrowing Saddam (The Mission) have anything to do with your quoted text?

By limiting Mission Accomplished to just the downfall of Hussein and Baghdad, you are undermining your own argument - that there are many missions (past, present and future) that may or may not have been accomplished (yet).

Missions range from daily patrols by soldiers in the streets of Iraq, to larger strategic missions (the "surge" in Baghdad) to the over-riding reason for our foray into Iraq, the War on Terrorism.

Gauging our success on one "Mission Accomplished" muddies our view of the bigger picture.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

Nonsense. It meant neither of your choices.

Yes yes it does. Warinpeace sees it.

Of course they believed they still had "difficult work to do."

No, not just difficult. Difficult AND DANGEROUS.

BTW He he believed there was more dangerous work to be done, AS YOU JUST ADMITTED. Then how could he believe that all of the fighting in IRaq was done?

That would be silly.

But he didn't convey (and, more seriously, I don't believe they planned for) what actually did happen after that speech.

I will repeat what I said in my OP Please pay attention BR

This thread isn't about if you think Bush underestimated what would eventually happen.This is about what Mission Accomplished meant at that time.

He also clearly didn't refer just to overthrowing Saddam, because he barely mentioned it in his speech,

BRussell do you know what a mission is? A mission is an active attempt in a war. A Mission isn't the war itself. The MISSION they are referring to was overthrowing Saddam. If you have ANY PROOF otherwise. Please present it. You keep claiming "He didn't mean just saddam cause he barely mentioned it" isn't proof. It's conjecture .

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Warren Pease 

By limiting Mission Accomplished to just the downfall of Hussein and Baghdad, you are undermining your own argument - that there are many missions (past, present and future) that may or may not have been accomplished (yet).

Right.During war there are MANY MANY missions. This was just ONE.I think you may have misunderstood or I didn't write clearly enough. Probably the latter.

Missions range from daily patrols by soldiers in the streets of Iraq, to larger strategic missions (the "surge" in Baghdad) to the over-riding reason for our foray into Iraq, the War on Terrorism.

And this is what I have been trying to say.

Gauging our success on one "Mission Accomplished" muddies our view of the bigger picture.

Only if you believed that the president commending those that committed that mission muddies things I guess.

This has been happening for centuries.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

You added NOTHING to this discussion. NOTHING.

Right Kevin, except point out the very obvious false dichotomy present in your thread topic.

It's as if we say: Either Republicans are racist war mongers or they are the saviors of mankind! It has to be one or the other! Which is it? And if you say anything else you're derailing my topic!

I've got an idea Kevin, how about you start another thread and ask people if it's a false dichotomy that Bush was either talking only about overthrowing Saddam or that ALL fighting in Iraq was over.

And the pathetic thing is that, even though both are obviously false, YOU have claimed one, but no one has claimed the other.

[Kevin]

Right Kevin, except point out the very obvious false dichotomy present in your thread topic.

No you did not.

I edited my post Brussell. Go read it again.
And please, this time stay on topic. And do go off in tangents. I will just ignore them and call them what they are.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

No you did not.

I edited my post Brussell. Go read it again.

I've read your posts enough, thanks. We can't move forward on this until you acknowledge that neither I nor anyone else has claimed Bush thought "ALL fighting in Iraq was done." That's the whole premise of your obsession with this topic, and until we bring clarity to that, this ridiculous topic, that I'm sure everyone else is sick of, will persist in being muddled. If you can get through that without the evasion on it you've shown for dozens of posts, we'll take the next step.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

I've read your posts enough, thanks.

Ah so just plug your ears and go NAW NAW NAW then please.

We can't move forward on this until you acknowledge that neither I nor anyone else has claimed Bush thought "ALL fighting in Iraq was done."

I wont even get into that argument BR. But ok, say if this is true, why even come into this thread? It's ABOUT THAT!

That's the whole premise of your obsession with this topic,

No, no, no.. stop projecting. *I* am not the one that keeps bringing up
"Mission Accomplished" in this part of the forum.

and until we bring clarity to that, this ridiculous topic, that I'm sure everyone else is sick of, will persist in being muddled. If you can get through that without the evasion on it you've shown for dozens of posts, we'll take the next step.

Again Why are you here? I told you what the thread is about. You still replied and did EXACTLY what I asked you not to.

And if you weren't arguing what my OP said, whats the big deal?

Do you agree or disagree if you have no qualms with what I said in the OP?

Since this isn't your complaint BRussell. WHAT did "Mission Accomplished" mean?

And please, don't go into spin and wiggle. Answer the question.

[BRussell]

Come on Kevin. Why am I here? Maybe it's because you claimed in the previous thread that I made this straw man argument you've now presented in this thread. And maybe it's because you're taking a debate we've been having the past few days, putting it into a new thread, and setting up this straw man as the other side to yours. Come on, Kevin, it's transparent. And now you refuse to even acknowledge it. It's hard to imagine a more perfect example of bad faith here on the MacNN political lounge.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

Come on Kevin. Why am I here?

Well I hope to find out...

Maybe it's because you claimed in the previous thread that I made this straw man argument you've now presented in this thread.

Ok, BRussell I apologize for accusing you of doing things you claim you did not. BTW this thread isn't a straw man.

And maybe it's because you're taking a debate we've been having the past few days, putting it into a new thread,

I was asked to. Don't jump to conclusions. BTW, this thread isn't just about YOU. I wasn't arguing with just YOU.

and setting up this straw man as the other side to yours.

No straw man here.

Come on, Kevin, it's transparent. And now you refuse to even acknowledge it. It's hard to imagine a more perfect example of bad faith here on the MacNN political lounge.

Hyperbole.

Please answer my question I asked you in my last post. You know, the part you claimed you had no issues with.

Thanks.

[BRussell]

I have stated my position very clearly, and you dismiss it as irrelevant or off topic. Well, sorry, but just because you start a thread under ridiculously false assumptions doesn't mean you can disregard the truth.

Truth #1: Bush obviously did not believe "ALL fighting in Iraq was done."
Truth #2: No one has ever claimed that.
Truth #3: The reason people criticize Bush for the "Mission Accomplished" photo-op is because it symbolized how poorly planned the war was, not because anyone thought Bush was saying "ALL fighting in Iraq was done."

I'd like to continue this debate, but until you can either acknowledge or rebut those very basic claims, which I've repeated over and over and you have continued to evade, I'm done here. If you can bring yourself to finally directly address them, I'll be happy to respond.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

What was meant by "Mission Accomplished"

Did it just mean overthrowing Saddam? Or did it mean All of fighting in Iraq?

BEFORE answering, in Bush's "mission accomplished speech. He said this,

[b]

NOW without spinning off about something else, and ignoring this statement above (Which is what all the Bush haters have been doing the past 3 days)

I want that statement explained as to what it meant.

Either Bush felt the war in Iraq was done, and contradicted himself, OR He knew that there would still be fighting left to do.

It's one of the two above. Pick

Logically I cannot be anything other than the two.

Either he contradicted himself, or he wasn't.

You CANNOT say Bush thought all battles and danger was over reading that statement. Unless of course you feel he was contradicting himself.

This is a NO SPIN zone. Any SPINS will be discredited and labeled so.

It was the CARRIER that he was on and THEIR mission-supporting the invasion-that was "accomplished." Is there a transcript that shows Bush saying "mission accomplished" anywhere-especially on that ship? I don't think so.

Someone in the president's PR staff goofed up bigtime for not either having the ship's captain take down the banner or having the pres mention the ship's mission being "accomplished" in his speech. So there is a THIRD answer, not your dichotomy, and mine is based on fact, not conjecture. It's just that the press spent about 50 milliseconds on the reason the banner was there, and then chose to ignore that and reinterpret the banner as they wanted for a more sensationalist spin.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

It was the CARRIER that he was on and THEIR mission-supporting the invasion-that was "accomplished." Is there a transcript that shows Bush saying "mission accomplished" anywhere-especially on that ship? I don't think so.

Then why are people blaming Bush?

Someone in the president's PR staff goofed up bigtime for not either having the ship's captain take down the banner or having the pres mention the ship's mission being "accomplished" in his speech.

Why was it a screw up? The mission WAS accomplished. Why showing a banner saying such a thing wrong? The only thing I can think of, is by doing so those that hate Bush could spin it. Like they did.

So there is a THIRD answer, not your dichotomy, and mine is based on fact, not conjecture.

Noted

It's just that the press spent about 50 milliseconds on the reason the banner was there, and then chose to ignore that and reinterpret the banner as they wanted for a more sensationalist spin.

I agree. The press wanted a spin.

Too bad too many people in here believed it.

Thanks for your post gh.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

I have stated my position very clearly, and you dismiss it as irrelevant or off topic.

No, no you did not.

Well, sorry, but just because you start a thread under ridiculously false assumptions doesn't mean you can disregard the truth.

BR stop making up stuff. I did no such thing. This thread just isn't ABOUT YOU.

Truth #1: Bush obviously did not believe "ALL fighting in Iraq was done."

Good we are in agreement.

Truth #2: No one has ever claimed that.

Wrong.

Truth #3: The reason people criticize Bush for the "Mission Accomplished" photo-op is because it symbolized how poorly planned the war was, not because anyone thought Bush was saying "ALL fighting in Iraq was done."

Wrong again. Originally "Mission Accomplished was SPUN. Just like ghreporter said. JUST LIKE I WAS SAYING ALL ALONG.

I'll quote gh

It's just that the press spent about 50 milliseconds on the reason the banner was there, and then chose to ignore that and reinterpret the banner as they wanted for a more sensationalist spin.

THIS is what happened.

I'd like to continue this debate, but until you can either acknowledge or rebut those very basic claims, which I've repeated over and over and you have continued to evade, I'm done here. If you can bring yourself to finally directly address them, I'll be happy to respond.

BRussell you have a vivid imagination. That is all I have to say about that.

*I* wasn't the one evading.

So lets gets this straight.

Mission accomplished = Removing Saddam.

You feel that the President underestimated the fighting that would go on.

Is this your stance?

[Kevin]

BTW I suggest BR read these threads again

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...raq-came-true/

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...predictions/2/

MANY people claiming what you claimed they did not.

Maybe you owe me an apology?

I think so.

[besson3c]

"We will be greeted in Iraq as liberators"

[Kevin]

I suggest you pay more attention.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Originally Posted by BRussell

Truth #2: No one has ever claimed that.

Wrong.

If it's wrong, then show me someone who has claimed that Bush meant "ALL fighting in Iraq was done." I'll be happy to say that they are wrong, but I can't believe anyone would ever say something as ridiculous as your straw man.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Originally Posted by BRussell

Truth #3: The reason people criticize Bush for the "Mission Accomplished" photo-op is because it symbolized how poorly planned the war was, not because anyone thought Bush was saying "ALL fighting in Iraq was done."

Wrong again. Originally "Mission Accomplished was SPUN. Just like ghreporter said. JUST LIKE I WAS SAYING ALL ALONG.

It was SPUN huh? What does that even mean? Bush failed to plan for what came after that speech, and I think everyone, even Republican supporters of Bush and the war, agree with that. That cocky "Mission Accomplished" sign is the clearest symbol of that lack of planning.

Originally Posted by Kevin

So lets gets this straight.

Mission accomplished = Removing Saddam.

You feel that the President underestimated the fighting that would go on.

Is this your stance?

Jeez. You've been shown this over and over and over again. "Mission Accomplished" meant what Bush said it meant: Iraq was free, a victory against terrorism had been won, major combat operations were over, Iraq had been liberated, etc. etc. Removing Saddam was a very minor part of his speech, barely even mentioned once.

But yes, I feel that the President underestimated the fighting that would go on. You don't? Because I believe Bush himself has acknowledged that, and everyone on the planet sees that he did. But let's get into endless games over what everyone acknowledges anyway!

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

BTW I suggest BR read these threads again

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...raq-came-true/

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...predictions/2/

MANY people claiming what you claimed they did not.

Maybe you owe me an apology?

I think so.

No one in those threads said Bush meant "ALL fighting in Iraq was done," as you claim. No one. One person said Bush meant the war was over. Defining war as "major combat operations," then yes, Bush did try to say that.

[hyteckit]

What does "Mission Accomplished" mean?

Does it mean Pres. Bush thinks the mission is done? Or is he and his admission so blinded to see what the actual mission is? Oh right, Pres. Bush admission actually has a plan? Whoa!!! So Pres. Bush with "Mission Accomplished" banner signifies how shortsighted the Bush Administration is. Insurgents in its last throes. Right. Mission Accomplished. Right indeed. WMD found?? World is safer? Iraq is safer? Bin Laden captured? New Orleans rebuilt?

[hyteckit]

New question.

Do you think Pres. Bush and his admission is shortsighted, thinking that it's "Mission Accomplished" after overthrowing Sadam?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

If it's wrong, then show me someone who has claimed that Bush meant "ALL fighting in Iraq was done." I'll be happy to say that they are wrong, but I can't believe anyone would ever say something as ridiculous as your straw man.

Go read the links I posted.

It was SPUN huh? What does that even mean? Bush failed to plan for what came after that speech, and I think everyone, even Republican supporters of Bush and the war, agree with that. That cocky "Mission Accomplished" sign is the clearest symbol of that lack of planning. Jeez. You've been shown this over and over and over again. "Mission Accomplished" meant what Bush said it meant: Iraq was free, a victory against terrorism had been won, major combat operations were over, Iraq had been liberated, etc. etc. Removing Saddam was a very minor part of his speech, barely even mentioned once.

You haven't been paying attention. Read ghporter's post

But yes, I feel that the President underestimated the fighting that would go on. You don't?

Of course he did. And so did most everyone. But that has nothing to do with "Mission Accomplished"

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

No one in those threads said Bush meant "ALL fighting in Iraq was done," as you claim. No one. One person said Bush meant the war was over. Defining war as "major combat operations," then yes, Bush did try to say that.

LOL!

Originally Posted by BRussell 

I know what Donald Rumsfeld said: "It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."

He also said: "The idea that it's going to be a long, long, long battle of some kind I think is belied by the fact of what happened in 1990. Five days or five weeks or five months, but it certainly isn't going to last any longer than that."

Cheney said it would be "weeks rather than months."

I also know that Bush had a big "Mission Accomplished" photo-op banner. Three years ago.

What does that mean BR?

What does "Mission Accomplished" Have to do with how long we are going to be there BR?



If it was as you were saying, that mission, why bring it up? Now if that isn't what you MEANT, you worded it poorly! And it's of no fault but your own

Now spin spin spin for us! Make sure you blame it on me. AKA per usual.

And this one from Analog

Originally Posted by analogika 

I think what you're talking about may be *technically* correct, but only in a Clintonian sense.

YOU SAY NOW that they were referring to the toppling of the Iraqi gov. YOU ASSUMED THEN (as did all supporters of the Iraqi invasion) that it referred to military action, i.e. war. The rebuilding would take much longer. The fact that Bush defined the war as being over when he stood on an aircraft carrier in front of a sunset-lit "Mission Accomplished" banner doesn't mean any more than Clinton not defining a blowjob as "sex".

Come in BRussell you know you wanna spin. !

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

New question.

Do you think Pres. Bush and his admission is shortsighted, thinking that it's "Mission Accomplished" after overthrowing Sadam?

Um the "Mission Accomplished" WAS overthrowing saddam. THAT WAS THE MISSION. Pay attention.

[Powerbook]

http://www.angryflower.com/antarc.gif

PB.

[Kevin]

Powerbook thanks for that bit of irrelevancy to my thread.

BTW image size too large. I'd cut it down before a mod did

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Um the "Mission Accomplished" WAS overthrowing saddam. THAT WAS THE MISSION. Pay attention.

Exactly the problem with the Bush Administration. Can't think further than 1 step. Overthrow Sadam. Mission Accomplished!!!! What's next? Oh... um... make peace and establish government in Iraq. How? Who cares. Overthrow Sadam. Mission Accomplished.

Mission:
Phase 1: overthrow Sadam.
Phase 2: defeat the insurgency. stabilize the country.
Phase 3: put in place a new government and help Iraqi citizen establish new law and teach them how to police themselves.

Bush Admin's version:

Mission:
Overthrow Sadam.
Declare "Mission Accomplish"
We will be greeted as liberators.

Shortsighted Bush Administration. So sad the that Pres. Bush thinks Mission Accomplish is overthrowing Sadam. Very sad.

[hyteckit]

We are in this sad situation in Iraq because Pres. Bush and his administration thinks overthrowing Sadam is Mission Accomplish.

So to answer Kevin's question. Yes, Pres. Bush thinks overthrowing Sadam is Mission Accomplished. Sad, sad indeed.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Exactly the problem with the Bush Administration. Can't think further than 1 step. Overthrow Sadam. Mission Accomplished!!!! What's next? Oh... um... make peace and establish government in Iraq. How? Who cares. Overthrow Sadam. Mission Accomplished.

Mission:
Phase 1: overthrow Sadam.
Phase 2: defeat the insurgency. stabilize the country.
Phase 3: put in place a new government and help Iraqi citizen establish new law and teach them how to police themselves.

Bush Admin's version:

Mission:
Overthrow Sadam.
Declare "Mission Accomplish"
We will be greeted as liberators.

Shortsighted Bush Administration. So sad the that Pres. Bush thinks Mission Accomplish is overthrowing Sadam. Very sad.

What does your post have to do with the topic?

Other than partisan rah rahing?

Nothing.

Put the pom-poms away.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

We are in this sad situation in Iraq because Pres. Bush and his administration thinks overthrowing Sadam is Mission Accomplish.
So to answer Kevin's question. Yes, Pres. Bush thinks overthrowing Sadam is Mission Accomplished. Sad, sad indeed.

No, you are in a sad situation because you haven't read the thread. If you had, you'd know that said statement you just made above is silly. BTW here is another one for ya BR.

[Krusty]

Mission Accomplished

[tie]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

What was meant by "Mission Accomplished"

hyteckit is right. Certainly in hindsight it is clear that only the smallest, easiest part of the mission was accomplished, a tiny fraction of what would have to be done and certainly not worth a huge sign and photo op from an idiot president who should have been planning even then.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by tie 

hyteckit is right. Certainly in hindsight it is clear that only the smallest, easiest part of the mission was accomplished

No, he is wrong because he isn't paying attention to what we are talking about. Instead of actually figuring that out, he went off in a tangent of anti-Bush silliness.

a tiny fraction of what would have to be done and certainly not worth a huge sign and photo op from an idiot president who should have been planning even then.

And you are doing it too.

Congratulation.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Is that just a single congratulation?

[olePigeon]

That speach had a lot of doublespeak in it and the banner was there for the same purpose.

[sek929]

BINGO! Olepigeon gets a cookie!

Once again, Kevin, to assume you know the situation 100% is reeeeaally pushing it.

You've made your assumptions, I've made mine. Only difference is you think your assumptions are fact.

In the very same speech that you take your convenient little snippet he also said major combat operations in Iraq have ended, which was totally out of whack.

So what's it gonna be? The rest of the speech doesn't support anything in your snippet, yet you hold on to it like that is the only thing Bush said.

You can't spin in circles and accuse the room of spinning.

[hyteckit]

A better question.

Do you believe the announcement of "Mission Accomplished" by Pres. Bush, right after overthrowing Sadam, premature and shortsighted?

My answer: "YES"
If I went and explain why, Kevin would say I'm going off on an anti-Bush tangent.

[ironknee]

we hit a homerun!

weee mision accomplished!

oh...it's only the 2nd inning?

[Timo]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

I could go on. According to Bush's speech under that sign, this wasn't the end of fighting in Iraq, but it was a huge turning point in the war on terror. He was, to say the least, very, very wrong. That's why people, absolutely deservedly, criticize Bush for the speech. Not because they're claiming Bush said "ALL fighting in Iraq" was over.

I'm reminded of Rumsfeld's "it'll all be over in six months" speech. Everybody was swigging the kool-aid.

[Timo]

Originally Posted by sek929 

You can't spin in circles and accuse the room of spinning.

quoted for truth

[tie]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

No, he is wrong because he isn't paying attention to what we are talking about. Instead of actually figuring that out, he went off in a tangent of anti-Bush silliness.

It is "silliness" only if you don't care about Iraq. Given that the whole speech was about Iraq and how our mission in Iraq was accomplished -- it isn't silliness!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

That speach had a lot of doublespeak in it and the banner was there for the same purpose.

Baseless accusation. I had no problem understanding the speech

Only those that already had their chips on their shoulders were "confused" and spun it. Thems are the facts.

We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We are bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous. We are pursuing and finding leaders of the old regime, who will be held to account for their crimes.

You guys can spin all ya want. You'll still be wrong.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Timo 

I'm reminded of Rumsfeld's "it'll all be over in six months" speech. Everybody was swigging the kool-aid.

LOL! I suggest you read the links I posted above for BRussell.

You guys crack my ass up.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

A better question.

Do you believe the announcement of "Mission Accomplished" by Pres. Bush, right after overthrowing Sadam, premature and shortsighted?

Bush never announced "Mission Accomplished" And how could have it been premature? Saddam didn't get back in power after it was announced did he?

If I went and explain why, Kevin would say I'm going off on an anti-Bush tangent.

Only if it wasn't valid. Like your rant above.