[Orion27]

Take it from Reuters, now they say Bush's success breeds long term worries in addtion to and especially anti-American sentiment. Just another reason why the world dislikes America. How can we help the Democrats keep us from succeeding? This is getting dangerous.
Bush success vs. al Qaeda breeds long-term worries | U.S. | Reuters

[goMac]

I wasn't even aware Bush was succeeding against Al Qaeda. In fact, the article shows that we aren't even successfully combating them at all. We're falling into the same trap the Soviet Union did.

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I wasn't even aware Bush was succeeding against Al Qaeda. In fact, the article shows that we aren't even successfully combating them at all. We're falling into the same trap the Soviet Union did.

You must be reading another article, or analysis by NBC news.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Orion27 

You must be reading another article, or analysis by NBC news.

From page 2:

"Look at al Qaeda's plans," said Michael Scheuer, who once led the CIA team devoted to finding al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. "They're very simply defined in two phrases: spread out America's forces and bleed the United States to bankruptcy. I'd argue America has been under attack successfully every day since 9/11 from that perspective.

"If you're looking at it from the cave, or wherever al Qaeda is hiding at the moment, you have to be pretty happy with the way the world is moving," he said.

[Nicko]

Well, the US certainly has outspent the terrorists by a magnitude of a million or so.... Diminishing returns?

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Orion27 

Take it from Reuters, now they say Bush's success breeds long term worries in addtion to and especially anti-American sentiment. Just another reason why the world dislikes America. How can we help the Democrats keep us from succeeding? This is getting dangerous.
Bush success vs. al Qaeda breeds long-term worries | U.S. | Reuters

Um, you just might want to come back down to earth. Lots of Republicans have correctly concluded that it's time to get out of Iraq, as well, and I'd hardly think that John McCain briefly walking through a market with a flak jacket on, and 100 troops around him, and helicopters over him, along with three gunships above, makes for a resounding "success," especially since that market area was attacked not too long after he left. That's okay, though, you just keep believing your delusions; most people won't take it from Reuters, as they know better. Your blind hatred of the Democrats shows exactly how objective you are.

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I wasn't even aware Bush was succeeding against Al Qaeda. In fact, the article shows that we aren't even successfully combating them at all. We're falling into the same trap the Soviet Union did.

ATTACKS WANE

The Iraq war has been described by U.S. intelligence as both a cause celebre for new al Qaeda recruits and a militant training ground in explosives and urban guerrilla tactics.

"There may be individuals they've been able to recruit in Iraq who might have the credentials and capabilities to deploy elsewhere, even though the core al Qaeda has been damaged,"

Islamist groups have killed about 1,600 people in 53 attacks overseas since 2001, according to IntelCenter, an Alexandria, Virginia-based intelligence contractor.

The number and lethality of the attacks have fallen off since 2004. Last year, there were five attacks and 28 deaths, according to IntelCenter statistics, which do not include attacks in Iraq, Afghanistan or other war zones.

There have been successes. I think the best strategy is to keep a narrow focus on the negative such as car bombings and ignor anything positive the Americans may be acheiving.
When challenged, we'll point to our own narrowly focused negative reporting and offer that up as proof of American failure.

[tie]

"... which do not include attacks in Iraq, Afghanistan or other war zones."

How can you evaluate the war on terror while neglecting Iraq and Afghanistan? You've got to be joking.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by tie 

"... which do not include attacks in Iraq, Afghanistan or other war zones."

How can you evaluate the war on terror while neglecting Iraq and Afghanistan? You've got to be joking.

Sadly, he isn't joking.

[mac128k-1984]

Bush success

Where?
the war in Iraq, Afghanistan, domestic issues, The Attorney General, "working" with congress. The spending bill, getting the troops home, the economy. All of which are not doing great.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I wasn't even aware Bush was succeeding against Al Qaeda. In fact, the article shows that we aren't even successfully combating them at all. We're falling into the same trap the Soviet Union did.

We already destroyed Al Qaeda. I'm definitely no Bush fan, but his administration did destroy Bin Laden's network.

However, there are now thousands more clamoring to do as they did, but the organization that we created to "trap" the Soviets is gone.

[red rocket]

Originally Posted by Helmling

We already destroyed Al Qaeda. I'm definitely no Bush fan, but his administration did destroy Bin Laden's network.

However, there are now thousands more clamoring to do as they did, but the organization that we created to "trap" the Soviets is gone.

Memo to Helmling:

Destroying "Al Qaeda" is impossible. Everybody who takes a proactive, military stance against US imperialism is an "Al Qaeda" operative, whether he likes it or not. Bush and pals need to have a label for their non-statist enemies, and "Al Qaeda" is it. Hey, I bet even Iran is "Al Qaeda", who cares about the Sunni-Shiite divide, anyway? Al Qaeda all over the place, one size fits all.

Sincerely,

Al Qaeda Identification Centre.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by mac128k-1984 

Bush success

Where?
the economy... not doing great.

You are either kidding, ignorant, or so agenda-driven that you have to lie.

The US economy is kicking butt. Unemployment is at a ridiculously low rate of 4.4% (2.5% if married or a college graduate), Treasury receipts continue to exceed expectations, inflation is low, home ownership is at an all-time high.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by goMac 

From page 2:

"Look at al Qaeda's plans," said Michael Scheuer, who once led the CIA team devoted to finding al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. "They're very simply defined in two phrases: spread out America's forces and bleed the United States to bankruptcy. I'd argue America has been under attack successfully every day since 9/11 from that perspective.

"If you're looking at it from the cave, or wherever al Qaeda is hiding at the moment, you have to be pretty happy with the way the world is moving," he said.

It's not fair to pull examples from the second page!

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by spacefreak 

You are either kidding, ignorant, or so agenda-driven that you have to lie.

The US economy is kicking butt. Unemployment is at a ridiculously low rate of 4.4% (2.5% if married or a college graduate), Treasury receipts continue to exceed expectations, inflation is low, home ownership is at an all-time high.

You are either kidding, ignorant, or so agenda-driven that you jave to lie.

You mean this economy? http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/...07/0314-31.htm

Or this one? http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwash...16760690.htm?t

[Jawbone54]

Or this one...

with a 4.4% unemployment rate.

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

You are either kidding, ignorant, or so agenda-driven that you jave to lie.

You mean this economy? http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/...07/0314-31.htm

Or this one? http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwash...16760690.htm?t

Job Growth Surged and Wages Rose in March Data

By JEREMY W. PETERS
Published: April 7, 2007
It just keeps going.
The New York Times

The job market showed little sign of losing its vigor last month as wages climbed and job growth rose, the Labor Department reported yesterday.

Economists said the numbers were consistent with an economy that was being supported by strong consumer spending, with considerable hiring in businesses like restaurants, bars, department stores and educational services.

In all, the Labor Department said that employment outside the farming sector grew by 180,000 in March. And in another sign of the job market’s resilience, employment growth in January and February was stronger than the government first reported.

The national unemployment rate also edged down last month to 4.4 percent, from 4.5 percent, matching a five-year low that it reached briefly in October.

With the economy showing signs of imbalance elsewhere — in the housing market, in business investment and in worker productivity — the job market has been the area that continues to show momentum despite a broader slowdown.

“Sometimes the pieces of the puzzle don’t fit together the way you’d expect them to,” said Jared Bernstein, an economist with the Economic Policy Institute. “And it’s the tireless American consumer who’s keeping the job market moving forward.”

The employment report offered a reason for consumers’ continued free spending: their incomes keep going up. The average hourly earnings for workers rose 4 percent in March compared with those a year earlier, to $17.22 an hour.

The jobs report appeared to confirm the Federal Reserve’s outlook for moderate economic growth, dimming hopes that interest rates will come down anytime soon. With wages increasing at a strong pace and the unemployment rate so low, the Fed is likely to continue to focus on rising inflation as the biggest threat to the economy. The yield on the United States Treasury’s 10-year note reflected this, rising to the highest level in eight weeks in a session that was shortened because of Good Friday.

While consumers are spending more, much of that money is borrowed. The Federal Reserve reported yesterday that consumer debt rose in February by $2.97 billion to a record $2.41 trillion. Americans are putting more of that debt on credit cards. The Fed’s measure of revolving debt, which includes credit cards, rose $2.494 billion, after rising $1.229 billion in January.

As the case has been for the last several months, the employment report was not only solid, but it showed that employers were even busier hiring in previous months than the government first estimated. The latest figures showed 32,000 jobs that were not included in the employment tallies for January and February.

“The fact of the matter is the job market is very, very healthy,” said Joshua Shapiro, chief economist of MFR. “And it’s not like this is a fluky one-off thing. There’s a whole host of evidence about the labor market that points to strength.”

Only a few pockets of the job market last month showed any softness. Manufacturing continued to shed workers, eliminating some 16,000 jobs. That was the largest of any sector, and the losses came primarily from the assembly line. Real estate renting and leasing services cut 5,200 jobs; telecommunications businesses cut 6,200.

But construction, which has been hit by a slowdown in residential real estate, added 56,000 jobs after cutting 67,000 the month before. Of those new jobs, 45,200 were in the specialty trade contractor business. And most of those — 34,200 jobs — were in nonresidential contracting.

Most of the hiring last month was in businesses that typically get a lift when consumers spend freely. Retail businesses added 35,900 jobs, almost all of those in department stores, discount warehouses and other general merchandise outlets. Gains in those businesses helped offset job losses in building supplies stores, furniture stores and automobile dealerships. Restaurants and bars hired 19,000 new workers.

Doctors’ offices, hospitals and other health care service providers added 29,500 jobs. New jobs in educational services totaled 15,800.

Economists said this level of job growth suggested that any spillover from the housing downturn had been limited so far.

“If businesses were really losing confidence in the outlook, and if we were heading for a major downturn, then they’d be pulling back across the board,” said Nigel Gault, chief United States economist for Global Insight.

Other measures of the job market showed signs of strengthening as well. The employment-population ratio, the percentage of Americans who are working, rose to 63.3 percent, from 63.2 percent in February.

But some economists pointed to possible anomalies in the data and suggested that the jobs numbers might not be as strong as they look. One factor that raised some eyebrows was that the strength in the retail sector was almost exclusively in general merchandise stores.

“That kind of sticks out like a sore thumb,” said Richard F. Moody, chief economist of Mission Residential, a real estate investment firm. “It’s hard to explain a jump that large in one month. And in terms of sustainable job growth, it doesn’t really fit the bill.”

Others pointed to possible distortions in the data for construction. “Employment in residential construction is down by only 3 percent over the last year, even though construction is down by almost 20 percent,” Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington, said in a report. “Either productivity in the sector is crashing or, more likely, the data are not reflecting real employment trends.”

In general, however, economists took the Labor Department report as a sign that growth will remain steady, prompting the Fed to hold interest rates at 5.25 percent for the foreseeable future. After yesterday’s report, Goldman Sachs pushed back, to September, its estimate for when the Fed will lower rates. “It appears that it will take a bit longer to see the extent of weakening that would convince the Fed to ease,” a group of economists from the investment bank said in a research note.

[OldManMac]

Yes, that one too, where the rich are getting richer, and where 10% of the population makes over $100K, while 90% makes under that, and where the averages workers' wages have stagnated for at least the last decade, and where 47 million are uninsured, and where the housing bubble is bursting and where the savings rate is a negative, which is the first time since the depression; yes, that one. Posting a picture of the Dow Jones means nothing; you probably don't even realize that indicates only what are considered 30 "bellweather" stocks. That sure shows a lot about the economy, yup!

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Orion27 

Job Growth Surged and Wages Rose in March Data

By JEREMY W. PETERS
Published: April 7, 2007
It just keeps going.
The New York Times

The job market showed little sign of losing its vigor last month as wages climbed and job growth rose, the Labor Department reported yesterday.

Economists said the numbers were consistent with an economy that was being supported by strong consumer spending, with considerable hiring in businesses like restaurants, bars, department stores and educational services.

In all, the Labor Department said that employment outside the farming sector grew by 180,000 in March. And in another sign of the job market’s resilience, employment growth in January and February was stronger than the government first reported.

The national unemployment rate also edged down last month to 4.4 percent, from 4.5 percent, matching a five-year low that it reached briefly in October.

With the economy showing signs of imbalance elsewhere — in the housing market, in business investment and in worker productivity — the job market has been the area that continues to show momentum despite a broader slowdown.

“Sometimes the pieces of the puzzle don’t fit together the way you’d expect them to,” said Jared Bernstein, an economist with the Economic Policy Institute. “And it’s the tireless American consumer who’s keeping the job market moving forward.”

The employment report offered a reason for consumers’ continued free spending: their incomes keep going up. The average hourly earnings for workers rose 4 percent in March compared with those a year earlier, to $17.22 an hour.

The jobs report appeared to confirm the Federal Reserve’s outlook for moderate economic growth, dimming hopes that interest rates will come down anytime soon. With wages increasing at a strong pace and the unemployment rate so low, the Fed is likely to continue to focus on rising inflation as the biggest threat to the economy. The yield on the United States Treasury’s 10-year note reflected this, rising to the highest level in eight weeks in a session that was shortened because of Good Friday.

While consumers are spending more, much of that money is borrowed. The Federal Reserve reported yesterday that consumer debt rose in February by $2.97 billion to a record $2.41 trillion. Americans are putting more of that debt on credit cards. The Fed’s measure of revolving debt, which includes credit cards, rose $2.494 billion, after rising $1.229 billion in January.

As the case has been for the last several months, the employment report was not only solid, but it showed that employers were even busier hiring in previous months than the government first estimated. The latest figures showed 32,000 jobs that were not included in the employment tallies for January and February.

“The fact of the matter is the job market is very, very healthy,” said Joshua Shapiro, chief economist of MFR. “And it’s not like this is a fluky one-off thing. There’s a whole host of evidence about the labor market that points to strength.”

Only a few pockets of the job market last month showed any softness. Manufacturing continued to shed workers, eliminating some 16,000 jobs. That was the largest of any sector, and the losses came primarily from the assembly line. Real estate renting and leasing services cut 5,200 jobs; telecommunications businesses cut 6,200.

But construction, which has been hit by a slowdown in residential real estate, added 56,000 jobs after cutting 67,000 the month before. Of those new jobs, 45,200 were in the specialty trade contractor business. And most of those — 34,200 jobs — were in nonresidential contracting.

Most of the hiring last month was in businesses that typically get a lift when consumers spend freely. Retail businesses added 35,900 jobs, almost all of those in department stores, discount warehouses and other general merchandise outlets. Gains in those businesses helped offset job losses in building supplies stores, furniture stores and automobile dealerships. Restaurants and bars hired 19,000 new workers.

Doctors’ offices, hospitals and other health care service providers added 29,500 jobs. New jobs in educational services totaled 15,800.

Economists said this level of job growth suggested that any spillover from the housing downturn had been limited so far.

“If businesses were really losing confidence in the outlook, and if we were heading for a major downturn, then they’d be pulling back across the board,” said Nigel Gault, chief United States economist for Global Insight.

Other measures of the job market showed signs of strengthening as well. The employment-population ratio, the percentage of Americans who are working, rose to 63.3 percent, from 63.2 percent in February.

But some economists pointed to possible anomalies in the data and suggested that the jobs numbers might not be as strong as they look. One factor that raised some eyebrows was that the strength in the retail sector was almost exclusively in general merchandise stores.

“That kind of sticks out like a sore thumb,” said Richard F. Moody, chief economist of Mission Residential, a real estate investment firm. “It’s hard to explain a jump that large in one month. And in terms of sustainable job growth, it doesn’t really fit the bill.”

Others pointed to possible distortions in the data for construction. “Employment in residential construction is down by only 3 percent over the last year, even though construction is down by almost 20 percent,” Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington, said in a report. “Either productivity in the sector is crashing or, more likely, the data are not reflecting real employment trends.”

In general, however, economists took the Labor Department report as a sign that growth will remain steady, prompting the Fed to hold interest rates at 5.25 percent for the foreseeable future. After yesterday’s report, Goldman Sachs pushed back, to September, its estimate for when the Fed will lower rates. “It appears that it will take a bit longer to see the extent of weakening that would convince the Fed to ease,” a group of economists from the investment bank said in a research note.

Nice to see you back. I hope you're not one of the average workers, who make $17.22/hour. If you are, you're not helping the economy.

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

Yes, that one too, where the rich are getting richer, and where 10% of the population makes over $100K, while 90% makes under that, and where the averages workers' wages have stagnated for at least the last decade, and where 47 million are uninsured, and where the housing bubble is bursting and where the savings rate is a negative, which is the first time since the depression; yes, that one. Posting a picture of the Dow Jones means nothing; you probably don't even realize that indicates only what are considered 30 "bellweather" stocks. That sure shows a lot about the economy, yup!

I think you forgot with the economy heating up the threat of inflation. Doom and gloom the glass half empty KarlG. Point us to a solution KarlG. You must have link somewhere.

[mac128k-1984]

Originally Posted by spacefreak 

You are either kidding, ignorant, or so agenda-driven that you have to lie.

The US economy is kicking butt. Unemployment is at a ridiculously low rate of 4.4% (2.5% if married or a college graduate), Treasury receipts continue to exceed expectations, inflation is low, home ownership is at an all-time high.

Wow the only way to truly support yout thesis is to call me ignorant, perhaps if you wish to have a debate you should refrain from name calling. You only have to look at msnbc.com to see that the economy has slowed down, inflation has increased, the housing market is dragging the economy, the sub-prime loans are further endangering the anemic housing market and forclosures are out of control.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Orion27 

I think you forgot with the economy heating up the threat of inflation. Doom and gloom the glass half empty KarlG. Point us to a solution KarlG. You must have link somewhere.

Says the master of cut and paste, and then run.

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

Says the master of cut and paste, and then run.

Come on KarlG, we have to square the impact on Global Warming when we bring all the poor people up from the poverty level. By the way what minimum level do you propose and are illegal aliens eligible?

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by goMac 

"If you're looking at it from the cave, or wherever al Qaeda is hiding at the moment, you have to be pretty happy with the way the world is moving," he said.

I'm ALMOST half tempted to make that my sig. Did the guy who said it, (or the people quoting it who think it somehow is positive to al Qaeda) have any idea of the irony saying that people hiding in caves for fear of their lives are happy with the way the world is? A perfect example of myopia if I ever saw it. Too funny.

Originally Posted by KarlG 

Yes, that one too, where the rich are getting richer, and where 10% of the population makes over $100K, while 90% makes under that, and where the averages workers' wages have stagnated for at least the last decade, and where 47 million are uninsured, and where the housing bubble is bursting and where the savings rate is a negative, which is the first time since the depression; yes, that one. Posting a picture of the Dow Jones means nothing; you probably don't even realize that indicates only what are considered 30 "bellweather" stocks. That sure shows a lot about the economy, yup!

Bush hasn't been in office for "the last decade". I think it appears that your complaining about something that has been a trend for years and years - including the last administration where the economy was praised. Either it sucked then with great numbers, or it doesn't now. Have we had a terrible economy for at least a decade or not?

[ApeInTheShell]

Obviously there is this bias in the media so how can we trust a source that says President Bush is or is not successful? According to many people on these forums he is an imperialist swine and others would have him impeached. His only successes were bringing the country together after 911 and the battle in afghanistan. Although, we didn't find the right man.
The war in Iraq as it stands will not be a success. The history books like usually will be changed to match what is popular.
Nor will the amnesty to illegal aliens top the charts. But hey, we got a lot of potential democratic voters and new social security numbers so I bet the next President will be a hit!

[OldManMac]

I'm well aware that Bush hasn't been in office for the last decade: I didn't say he has been. He has been in office for six years, and during that time the number of poor in this country has increased, the wage gap between the wealthy and the rest has increased rapidly, and the number of uninsured has gone up significantly as well. We are now at a negative savings rate, which is the first time since the depression, and the housing market needs only someone with a needle to pop the bubble. Inflation is also a possible threat. People look at numbers like the Dow Jones Index and a low unemployment rate, and make all kinds of assumptions from that, which aren't necessarily valid. The country could have a zero unemployment rate and it wouldn't mean a thing, especially when the average worker is earning $17.22 an hour, such as in the article Orion27 pasted here. That works out to just under $36K/year, which, for a family of three or four isn't much. That's even worse for those working below the average. Wal-Mart is the largest employer in the world, and there are very few of their employees that earn anywhere near that amount, plus they don't have insurance. One quarter of Wal-Mart's customers don't even have a checking account! Those people, plus their customers, rely almost entirely on public health subsidies and assistance with food stamps, Head Start, etc. Credit card balances are rising, and with the credit card insiders getting to rewrite the rules since he's been in office, minimum payments are rising, at the same time as income is stagnating. IIRC, the average person carries something like $7,000 in credit card debt, which, if he makes only the minimum payment, will take over thirty years to pay off! Something has to give. With the war in Iraq added, we're leveraging our childrens' future. Somebody has to pay that debt, and all these factors, coupled with foreign countries financing over 20% of our debt, don't paint a rosy picture.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

I'm well aware that Bush hasn't been in office for the last decade: I didn't say he has been. He has been in office for six years, and during that time the number of poor in this country has increased, the wage gap between the wealthy and the rest has increased rapidly, and the number of uninsured has gone up significantly as well.

So, by that standard, WHEN did we have a good economy? How far back do we have to go? Reagan? Ford? Johnson? By that standard, we haven't had a good economy for at least 15 years or so.