[Mark Larr]

Free trade doesn't work when every other country except the US is dishonest and down right criminal in it's activities.

First pet food, not medecines.

And they want to bring those rip-off death trap cars over here.

China says fatal drug outside regulator control - More Health News - MSNBC.com

BEIJING - Chinese companies accused of making and selling a fake drug ingredient that killed dozens of people in Panama did not fall under the nation’s medicine inspectors, Beijing said, leaving unclear what agency bore responsibility.

[Helmling]

The US is honest? We ship our toxic waste to other countries, deliberately undermine indigenous industries in favor of our imports, and control other nations through debt.

How is that honest?

[tie]

I think you missed that thousands may have been killed in Bangladesh.

Here's the article which broke the news:
From China to Panama, a Trail of Poisoned Medicine - New York Times

Here's the website of the company selling the poison: TAIXING GLYCERINE FACTORY

Scary indeed.

A couple quotes from the first page of that article:

Beyond Panama and China, toxic syrup has caused mass poisonings in Haiti, Bangladesh, Argentina, Nigeria and twice in India.

In Bangladesh, investigators found poison in seven brands of fever medication in 1992, but only after countless children died. A Massachusetts laboratory detected the contamination after Dr. Michael L. Bennish, a pediatrician who works in developing countries, smuggled samples of the tainted syrup out of the country in a suitcase. Dr. Bennish, who investigated the Bangladesh epidemic and helped write a 1995 article about it for BMJ, formerly known as the British Medical Journal, said that given the amount of medication distributed, deaths “must be in the thousands or tens of thousands.”

“It’s vastly underreported,” Dr. Bennish said of diethylene glycol poisoning. Doctors might not suspect toxic medicine, particularly in poor countries with limited resources and a generally unhealthy population, he said, adding, “Most people who die don’t come to a medical facility.”
...
Seventy years ago, medicine laced with diethylene glycol killed more than 100 people in the United States, leading to the passage of the toughest drug regulations of that era and the creation of the modern Food and Drug Administration.
...
When at least 88 children died in Haiti a decade ago, F.D.A. investigators traced the poison to the Manchurian city of Dalian, but their attempts to visit the suspected manufacturer were repeatedly blocked by Chinese officials, according to internal State Department records. Permission was granted more than a year later, but by then the plant had moved and its records had been destroyed.

“Chinese officials we contacted on this matter were all reluctant to become involved,” the American Embassy in Beijing wrote in a confidential cable. “We cannot be optimistic about our chances for success in tracking down the other possible glycerine shipments.”

In fact, The Times found records showing that the same Chinese company implicated in the Haiti poisoning also shipped about 50 tons of counterfeit glycerin to the United States in 1995. Some of it was later resold to another American customer, Avatar Corporation, before the deception was discovered.

[Sky Captain]

I've seen junk aircraft parts.
Had a propeller hub with replacement parts from China.
I was having problems in an ATR 72 setting my propeller speed on #2.
The metal was substandard and had wallowed out.

I'm convinced everything is substandard manufactured under state control.

[monkeybrain]

It's not manufactured under state control. Chinese companies can do whatever they want. It can be seen as unconstrained capitalism really. They need some state regulation (not control), especially for safety issues. I suppose more governments could push China to increase regulations, but they probably fear angering their own companies who rely heavily on Chinese manufacture. The Chinese, of course, also seem to defend their companies more because they have not developed a sense of accountability yet.

To the original poster; come on, every nation has dishonest practices. Moreover, many companies from the West have and still do practise business in other countries in a way they never would in their home country. The best example of this would be: Bhopal disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[tie]

Ten brands of poisonous Chinese-made toothpaste found in the US (after FDA testing).

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/02/us...hpaste.html?hp

[OldManMac]

Since when does the U. S. practice free trade? Obviously someone isn't aware of agriculture policies. Someone also hasn't seen what goes on in much of the food processing industry in the U. S., especially in meat processing.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

deliberately undermine indigenous industries in favor of our imports

Conspiracy theory. The US has spent billions on developing indigenous industries and American and European organisations have also helped raise the standards of developing world farmers. Just one of hundreds of examples would be the coffee culture America has helped spread around the world that under ever improving Fair Trade rule has helped lift South American and Far Eastern coffee bean farmers out of poverty.

On the other side of the coin US state governors and European countries have been penalising smokers more and more each year and have damaged the Anglo-American tobacco business. So much for the idea that we pursue self-interests at the cost of health.

But let's just go believe Naomi Klein. She has books to sell and a publishing firm to make happy.

[Dakarʒ]

It seems to be the same nation over and over. Let's not paint with to wide a brush.

[Doofy]

I have a Chinese products avoidance policy in place. If I can at all avoid buying Chinese, I do so.

[peeb]

It's an interesting sig effect when Dakarz and Doofy post one after the other. Perhpas you guys could coordinate on scale issues?

[tie]

Some interesting developments... We have the contaminated seafood ban last week. Now,

For the second time in three months, a former high-ranking official at China’s top food and drug watchdog agency has been sentenced to death for corruption and approving counterfeit drugs, the state-run news media said on Friday.

Cao Wenzhuang, who until 2005 was in charge of drug registration approvals at the State Food and Drug Administration, was accused of accepting more than $300,000 in bribes from two pharmaceutical companies and helping undermine the public’s confidence in an agency that is supposed to be safeguarding the nation’s health.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/07/bu...mp;oref=slogin

[Dakarʒ]

Sentenced to death? Damn.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by monkeybrain 

It's not manufactured under state control. Chinese companies can do whatever they want. It can be seen as unconstrained capitalism really.

Yes, ironically the problem is that China's unregulated capitalism does not have the effective government consumer protections that the interventionist US nanny state has. That's why their food is toxic, toothpaste is dangerous, pet-food contaminated and machinery dangerous. You'll have to wait for them to develop a more socialist government to get fair and safe trade.

[Spliffdaddy]

When the government can sentence you to death for allowing faulty products into the marketplace - you live in a socialist country.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

When the government can sentence you to death for allowing faulty products into the marketplace - you live in a socialist country.

No. You live in a totalitarian country. Where did you go to school?

[Spliffdaddy]

I went to a public school.
The private schools had too many rich white kids...I didn't fit in.

[peeb]

Was this during the period when civics was a huge dose of Cold War propaganda with a fire-hose?

[Spliffdaddy]

Socialism is an economic model. Marxist and communist (see also CHINA) nations often employ a socialist economy.

[peeb]

Which has nothing to do with being sentenced to death for allowing faulty products into the marketplace.

[Spliffdaddy]

There exist no nations except where socialist economies are employed - that an employee can be sentenced to death for allowing a faulty product into the marketplace.

It has EVERYTHING to do with the subject at hand.

next.

[peeb]

Firstly, if you think China is employing a socialist economic model, your are gravely misinformed. Secondly, I have no idea whether there are other countries where someone can be sentenced to death for that, but it has nothing to do with social ownership, and everything to do with totalitarianism.

It's frustrating that you want to argue about something that you could look up in a dictionary if you chose to educate yourself. I suggest your local community college as a good place to get some basic courses on comparative politics.

[Spliffdaddy]

hahaha. um, ok.
I generally don't lecture at community colleges, but I'm not against doing so.

[peeb]

I'm sure you don't but a basic education at one would make your ramblings here less tedious, by helping you to avoid the more obvious mistakes you make.

[Spliffdaddy]

well I'll tell ya what. Get back to me when you actually win one of these debates. From what I've seen you're quick to call names and slow to deliver smackdowns.

[tie]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

When the government can sentence you to death for allowing faulty products into the marketplace - you live in a socialist country.

It was for corruption. And those faulty products have killed by poisoning tens of thousands of people. Makes sense to me.

[Spliffdaddy]

It would make more sense if a jury of his peers sentenced him to death. When your government sentences you to death, it just doesn't seem right.
edited: at least in Japan they jump out of buildings when they bring dishonor to their families. That's what makes Toyota and SONY such great companies.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

well I'll tell ya what. Blah blah blah.

'Winning debates' is about content, not just name calling. When you carry on parroting nonsense that even you must know is just incorrect, that's not 'winning debates'. Are you still arguing that socialism doesn't mean what the rest of the world says it means, or are your admitting that you got 'smacked down' on that?

[peeb]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

It would make more sense if a jury of his peers sentenced him to death. When your government sentences you to death, it just doesn't seem right.

I was not arguing about the rights and wrongs of the death penalty, or the efficacy of different judicial systems. I was simply refuting the claim that this was a characteristic of socialism. It is a characteristic of totalitarianism. I suppose people changing the subject is the closest I'm going to come to admitting they were wrong.

[Spliffdaddy]

I think everyone would agree that you are light-years from being able to speak down to the almighty Spliffster. When the day comes that I can't defeat the likes of you in the arena of the Political/War forum I'll gladly pack my bags and move on.
I appreciate your effort. In fact, I wouldn't be here if there was no discourse. But, damn. You need to work your way UP to getting my attention. There are plenty of other better folks than you waiting in line.
I'm trying to take it easy on you. For real. Even though I've been drinking most of the day. On one of my more sober days I'd brush you off like a mere piece of lint on my lapel. I mean, you're just a youngster. A pup. I don't want to discourage you.
When I first got here there were no conservatives, whatsoever. In fact, this forum was created FOR me. Ask anybody. Back in the day I only had a handful of hoes. I wasn't clocking much dough. Doofy used to extoll the virtues of the UK. And Skycaptain was trying to promote liberal ideology. Do you see how much progress has been made?
i bet you a hundred bucks I'll have your lame ass voting for Newt Gingrich in 2008. Even if you have to write his name on the ballot.
Take a step back, buy yourself an eighth of chronic, and pay attention to the almighty Spliffdaddy. You are so far over your head that the sun is closer.
Seriously. You don't even know me. I'll hand you your ass along with your hand.

Spliff-out

[peeb]

Right. You've clearly been drinking. Go sleep it off, and if you're lucky, you won't embarrass yourself further.

[besson3c]

Spliffdaddy: you need to eat an f-ing can. Seriously. Cans are good, I eat them too. Go eat a can, you goat.

[Spliffdaddy]

re: peeb

heh. Then here's your chance to defeat me. I'll wait right here. And I'm *still* drinking. Hurry up. Hand me my ass. This should be easy.

Show me where I'm wrong.

It hasn't happened in almost eight years. Although Taliesin came really close a few years back. Bailed myself out, though. Since then I don't participate in Muslim-related threads. Actually, you won't see me in any religious threads. In ain't my forte'. Yeah I can't make the little ' thingy go where I want it to.

Seriously, peeb, I like your attitude. Don't get me wrong. I love anybody that takes an interest in politics. I'll defend you against anyone who strays into this forum that doesn't belong here. Still, my job is to point your brain full of mush in the right direction. I used to think like you. Then I got old.
Do you like redheads? (here's your chance to redeem yourself)

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Spliffdaddy: you need to eat an f-ing can. Seriously. Cans are good, I eat them too. Go eat a can, you goat.

cool it, you illegal immigrant. I'm sure, by now, you've overstayed your visa. If things get bad for you I'll act as your sponsor.
But, really, you're one of my favorite MacNN members. Which is odd considering we agree on practically nothing. Anyhow, I hope everything is going well for you.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

cool it, you illegal immigrant. I'm sure, by now, you've overstayed your visa. If things get bad for you I'll act as your sponsor.
But, really, you're one of my favorite MacNN members. Which is odd considering we agree on practically nothing. Anyhow, I hope everything is going well for you.

Why so melancholy and sentimental? Do you want to have sex with me or something? Were you told that you are going to die?


I'm perfectly legal, but how do we know that you're not a foreign agent, Spliffdaddy, if that is your real name? Why don't you tell us your real name so that we can verify you? What is your social security number?

I bet that handsome looking guy with that frightening mustache in those pics you posted is not even you, but some sort of decoy. I'd prefer the f-ing wooden duck over you though, goat, even though you want to bone me, illegal immigrant... I mean goat.

Yeah, your face is an illegal immigrant.

Well, I've layed down enough smackdowns for tonight, besson3c out.

P.S. is the plural for smackdown (i.e. the several I've layed down) "smackdowns" or just "smackdown"?

P.P.S. are you an internet predator?

[Spliffdaddy]

Wait. How in the hell are you legal? Nobody is here legally. I'm serious. I've never met anybody that managed to pull that off. I didn't believe it was possible. Well, Hell Yeah. At least my government has some common sense. I'd let you into the US. (even though you cancel out my vote).
Welcome. If nobody else has offered that to you.

edited: now how do I get into Canada legally? All the coolest mofos I ever met are from Canada. I can't get a visa that's valid for more then 60 days.

edited again: I'm sorry, but according to the official scoreboard you have zero *smackdowns*. Perhaps if you ever have multiple *smackdowns* I'll inform you what the plural form would be.

PS, absolutely I am an internet stalker. My real name is Alan. But that's my middle name. wtf is your name?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

Wait. How in the hell are you legal? Nobody is here legally. I'm serious. I've never met anybody that managed to pull that off. I didn't believe it was possible. Well, Hell Yeah. At least my government has some common sense. I'd let you into the US. (even though you cancel out my vote).
Welcome. If nobody else has offered that to you.

edited: now how do I get into Canada legally? All the coolest mofos I ever met are from Canada. I can't get a visa that's valid for more then 60 days.

Well, you could marry somebody, but that would probably involve shaving off the spliffstache and improving your hygiene. It would also require having somebody to marry.

You could also get a student VISA.

Or, you could just say you are visiting, and just decide to stay. If you could get a social insurance card you'd be set! Since you don't believe in insurance, you wouldn't even have to worry about getting your Ontario health card.

You do know that it is illegal to have sex with animals in Canada, right? Knowing this, are you sure you still want to go?

[besson3c]

In case you didn't notice boys and girls, I just issued Spliffdaddy yet another smackdown to add to my growing collection.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

wtf is your name?

If you want to go to Canada, you might need to prove to them that you are smarter than you actually are. My name is printed to the left of all my posts: besson3c. That's my name.

You'll also have to give up having sex with animals. Immigration can tell these things.

[Spliffdaddy]

Since I own the *smackdown* trademark, it stands to reason that I would have all the pertinent data relating to *smackdowns*. As it stands, there are exactly none associated with the besson3c name.

Furthermore, I am smarter than pretty much *all* Canadians, so that's not even an issue worthy of discussion. I just want to visit there because they have some good weed.

And I call BS on your name being besson3c. I think I established that a besson3c is merely a trumpet with a 3c mouthpiece thingy.
PM me with your real name. You fraidycat.

[ebuddy]

Ive ended three times more threads than you all have started... and counting.

ebuddy 1:1; I've come not to abolish the smack-down, but to fulfill it.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

re: peeb
I'm *still* drinking. Hurry up. Hand me my ass. This should be easy. Show me where I'm wrong.

Your ass has been handed already. You're just too drunk or too stupid to know it. Constantly showing you that the facts don't support your ridiculous positions, and getting irrelevant abuse in response is pretty tiresome. You're on the ignore list from here on - dealing with you is like arguing with a drunk bum on the street corner - you can keep showing him he's wrong, but he's living in his own delusion. Goodbye.

[Spliffdaddy]

You know what they say about members who have a populated ignore list.
It's the easiest way to spot a liberal.

I insist on being on your ignore list. You aren't worthy of reading my posts. But I guarantee you will read them anyway. Just like you're reading this one.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by peeb 

Your ass has been handed already. You're just too drunk or too stupid to know it. Constantly showing you that the facts don't support your ridiculous positions, and getting irrelevant abuse in response is pretty tiresome. You're on the ignore list from here on - dealing with you is like arguing with a drunk bum on the street corner - you can keep showing him he's wrong, but he's living in his own delusion. Goodbye.

Peeb,

Not to long before SpliffDaddy left us last, he told us that his SpliffDaddy character is just a character of his, a persona he has adopted very much like Stephen Colbert's.

Don't take him seriously, I don't think he wants you to either... Just pretend he is Stephen Colbert (except less funny), and take everything he says with a huge grain of salt.

[TheWOAT]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Peeb,

Not to long before SpliffDaddy left us last, he told us that his SpliffDaddy character is just a character of his, a persona he has adopted very much like Stephen Colbert's.

Don't take him seriously, I don't think he wants you to either... Just pretend he is Stephen Colbert (except less funny), and take everything he says with a huge grain of salt.

I view Peeb in much the same way.

[Spliffdaddy]

I would think that most people on the internet are merely portraying a character. While I believe in real life the same things Spliffdaddy believes - I don't care so much about those things in my real life.

But anyhow, I noticed in the Lounge that somebody mentioned they were glad I was back under my original username. In reality, I've never used any other name. I was simply not here at all. I was away for a while. Doing things that liberals claim conservatives never do. Hopefully I made a difference.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

I was away for a while. Doing things that liberals claim conservatives never do. Hopefully I made a difference.

You got kicked out of the peace corps?

[Spliffdaddy]

heh. Nothing as glamorous as that. More along the lines of teaching a man to fish. But there was no fishing involved. Nor any man.

[besson3c]

He was masterbating with a bunch of goats.

[TheWOAT]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

I would think that most people on the internet are merely portraying a character. While I believe in real life the same things Spliffdaddy believes - I don't care so much about those things in my real life.

Aint that the freakin truth.