[Big Mac]

Now Obama really figured out how to offend average Christian voters. Is his campaign toast yet?

[Ghoser777]

Not toast yet, but his wording was awful. I don't even see the point in bringing it up. I think it is understood that there are issue voters out there - they vote on one issue, even if the person they are voting for will have no real impact on that issue. It's a validation of the importance of that issue, so they vote that way. So if you had a candidate with a good economic plan but wasn't a strong gun advocate, and another candidate with a weaker economic plan but was a strong gun advocate, some voters will vote based on the gun position even though gun control isn't a major issue in the election (although some would justifiably argue that it is always an important part). I don't really follow the bitterness part of it - nothing good can come out of the language.

As a sidenote, this is another reason why I wouldn't want to be a politician. I'm sure we've all had thoughts that come to us that sound really good until we say them out loud. It's hard to distinguish between deep seeded ideology and spur of the moment rambling, but the more you talk, the more likely you're going to same something stupid. I'm not trying to make an excuse, as "words matter" - everyone is accountable for what they say. But if you say a lot, there's a good chance you're going to say something dumb.

Congrats to Hillary - if things keep going this way, not only will the Democratic convention be a total mess, but it looks like McCain's path to the white house keeps getting easier.

[Eug]

You don't see the point of bringing it up? Of course there's a point. The point is he made a humungous PR faux pas that will hurt him, for good reason.

“So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations,” he concluded.

The stupidity of his statement boggles the mind. WTF was he thinking? This will most definitely negatively impact his campaign. The question is not if, but how much. I betcha Hillary broke out the Champagne yesterday. This is the best news yet for her in recent times.

[Chongo]

I wouldn't break out the bubbly just yet. Remember, she has Bill working against her

[Big Mac]

You think Bill is sabotaging her campaign? That he doesn't want to experience the indignity of being a First Gentleman?

[Eug]

Recent Pennsylvania polls

If the 2008 Democratic presidential preference primary were being held today between (names rotated) Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, for whom would you vote - Clinton, Obama, or someone else?

April 5-6 poll: Obama and Clinton - both at 45%
April 11-13 poll: Clinton 57%, Obama 37%

[wolfen]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

You think Bill is sabotaging her campaign? That he doesn't want to experience the indignity of being a First Gentleman?

One would think he'd be immunized for indignity by now.

I don't think anything Obama said was wrong, actually. Sad, yes, but not wrong. The fact that Hillary can relate better with uneducated views is hardly a vote of confidence by my reckoning. And every time she talks religiously I scream "DOES ANYBODY REALLY BUY THIS BULLSH*T?!" Then I see poll that the uneducated, religious, gun-toting Pennsylvanians do.

[Big Mac]

It was a bigoted statement. Yes for all those wondering, a black man can be a bigot too.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

One would think he'd be immunized for indignity by now.

I don't think anything Obama said was wrong, actually. Sad, yes, but not wrong. The fact that Hillary can relate better with uneducated views is hardly a vote of confidence by my reckoning. And every time she talks religiously I scream "DOES ANYBODY REALLY BUY THIS BULLSH*T?!" Then I see poll that the uneducated, religious, gun-toting Pennsylvanians do.

It's a matter of stupid vs. not stupid. Whether or not his bigotry has a shade a truth to it or not doesn't matter. Even if he feels that way, it was just extremely dumb to say it. I wouldn't be surprised if Hillary shares some of those feelings but she didn't say it, which is the point. Hence, she is now enjoying a little surge of popularity in Pennsylvania, at the time she needs it the most.

[wolfen]

So now we're upset because a politician said something unpopular and truthful, instead of being upset because a politician told us what we wanted to hear.

I think it's clear: The Terrorists Have Already Won.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

So now we're upset because a politician said something unpopular and truthful, instead of being upset because a politician told us what we wanted to hear.

The point is he made a really stupid public relations gaff, and one that will affect his campaign. Surely you must see that. If you don't, just take a look as his recent Pennsylvania poll.

It's not surprising that he may feel this way. That doesn't shock me in the least. What shocks me is that he was stupid enough to say what he did. That's a serious rookie "ooops" on his part. It's no surprise his campaign is damage control mode over this. Just about any political analyst could have predicted this reaction.

He should have just stuck with his previous game plan of being vague but positive. It seemed to be working for him.

I think it's clear: The Terrorists Have Already Won.

Yes, it's clear. The politically correct subversives are all members of Al Qaeda.

[wolfen]

I'm not disagreeing with you, Eug. I'm saying something like this highlights what a farcical circus politics is. Here we are upset over something said that was 1) sincere 2) truthful 3) relevant. Think how bizarre our political world is when we wish a politician was more banal, and disingenuous. So they could "win."

Regardless of our views on effective political marketing, the point is that the entire process is worthless, the system is doomed, and the aliens are coming. WHAT WILL YOU DO, THEN EUG! ZOMG ALIENS!

(I just used the Chewbacca Defense on you. You lose.)

[Eug]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

I'm not disagreeing with you, Eug. I'm saying something like this highlights what a farcical circus politics is. Here we are upset over something said that was 1) sincere 2) truthful 3) relevant. Think how bizarre our political world is when we wish a politician was more banal, and disingenuous. So they could "win."

Actually, I personally am not upset. I'm rather amused. This is the type of statement I'd expect from someone who fails to win a seat in a race for City Councillor. It's not what I expect for the Democratic frontrunner for prez of the US of A. Nobody's perfect, but this mistake is really, really bad. I can almost see the collective cringe of his entire staff when the news hit the wires.

Regardless of our views on effective political marketing, the point is that the entire process is worthless, the system is doomed, and the aliens are coming. WHAT WILL YOU DO, THEN EUG! ZOMG ALIENS!

Well, I wouldn't say it's completely worthless. However, events such as this most definitely add a lot to the jadedness of the average voter methinks.

(I just used the Chewbacca Defense on you. You lose.)

I had to look that up. I learned something today.

[el chupacabra]

Originally Posted by Eug 

He should have just stuck with his previous game plan of being vague but positive. It seemed to be working for him.

Yes you wouldn't expect this from someone so intelligent, and running for president... the thing is, he just couldn't hold back his hatred any longer; because it's soooooooooo strong and deep seated.

[el chupacabra]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

I don't think anything Obama said was wrong, actually. Sad, yes, but not wrong.

Oh, and you think wrong by the way.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

I'm not disagreeing with you, Eug. I'm saying something like this highlights what a farcical circus politics is. Here we are upset over something said that was 1) sincere 2) truthful 3) relevant.

You might know this point is debatable on a bunch of counts.
1) It may be sincere for some, not sincere for others.
2) truthful for some, untruthful for others.
3) relevant to some, irrelevant to others.

The slip-up is the sweeping generalization around the context of "embittered". Many people own guns and you simply cannot connect this with bitterness. Many people are religious, etc... and it has absolutely nothing to do with a negative disposition. This may be the outlet for Obama's religious experience, but there's no reason to pin that on the rest of this country. It was an absolutely moronic (and IMO telling) statement. Obama has speakidus. I thought this was going to be Hillary's undoing, but it seems Obama is striving for #1. Maybe too hard.

Think how bizarre our political world is when we wish a politician was more banal, and disingenuous. So they could "win."

Our political world is bizarre, but I'm certain we'd disagree on the symptoms.

Regardless of our views on effective political marketing, the point is that the entire process is worthless, the system is doomed, and the aliens are coming. WHAT WILL YOU DO, THEN EUG! ZOMG ALIENS!

(I just used the Chewbacca Defense on you. You lose.)

I always like it when people can make friends on the 'NN. Very cute.

[wolfen]

Nevermind...I remembered that the political lounge is all about polemic. I forgot to check my critical thinking skills at the door.

I'm leaving. Thanks for the reminder. Have a nice day.

[wolfen]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

Oh, and you think wrong by the way.

I'm not ignoring you just this one time. To tell you I ignore you.

[Eug]

Interesting. The person who published the comments originally wanted to hush it up, as she's an Obama supporter and actually has contributed the max $2300 to his campaign.

Katharine Q. Seelye - On Line - The New York Times - Politics - Election 2008 - New York Times

Ms. Fowler told me in an interview Sunday night that she was initially reluctant to write about what Mr. Obama had said because she actually supports him -- which partly explains why she was at the fund-raiser in the first place and why there was a four-day delay between the event and the publication of her post. Ultimately, she said, she decided that if she didn’t write about it, she wouldn’t be worth her salt as a journalist.

Ms. Fowler has spent a lot of time (and her own money) following the presidential campaign-- and participating in it. She has maxed out at $2,300 to Mr. Obama, starting in increments last fa