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Isn't our democracy centered around our constitution? You could make the argument that the Neocons have not been upholding the constitution, couldn't you? But, that would just contribute to the noise that is pointless and unproductive conversation, so I'll shut up...

One could also make the point that the Neocons aren't actually Republicans.

At this point, I just want to dig up Goldwater and prop him up in the Oval Office, even in his present state he'd do a better job than the 3 currently running (or the one holding the job, for that matter).

Ah, the PL at it's best.

I think it's pretty apt, actually. Democracy is defined by Aristotle as one of the corrupt forms of government because it's a rule by mob system. The Framers detested Democracy because they held that classic view of it. Democrats are often demagogic populists who seek to give in to the base demands of the electorate.

It's the Republican party that sadly hasn't lived up to its name.

Dimetapp Party?

Democracy is mob rule. Since they control the House & Senate, I'd say it's pretty accurate.

I find it interesting that the Democratic Party's namesake and symbol were adopted from insults by the Whig party.

Oh yeah, well the Republicans and Neocons *suck* and can't do anything right except mess up this country...

I think this post is apt to this rapidly devolving conversation...

P.S. you suck too.

Someone hasn't had his nap time.

You're a nap.

From what I can tell, you're just a comment or two away from the mods singing you a lullaby.

ha ha ha... read the whole thread again.

Obama could have denounced Wright from the start of the controversy. I said that about a half dozen times but I guess your reading comprehension is struggling again. Hell, he could have just addressed the congregation or even just his local constituency any time while he represented that community and avoided this situation.

If he had done ANYTHING that supported the ideals he claims to represent it would have gone a long way to show he had some actual conviction in those ideals.

No one actually believes that Obama was unaware of some of these controversial and divisive speeches Wright gave. Wright even acknowledged Obama spoke to him about the need to distance himself because of them at some point. Nothing Wright said this week was a departure from what he said in the past. In fact everything that precipitated yesterday's events was just Wright's explanation of his previous comments. Hardly new material to Barack.

Obama could not have only avoided my criticism but this whole mess if he just lived up to the standard he himself tells the public he embodies. Instead he showed an inability to stand up for those principles until he was shoved into the corner.
If he couldn't show leadership in front of one man who was like family to him even once over the course of 20 years it doesn't speak well of him or his character.

This is the second time you've claimed that you'd actually like to discuss something more profound. You made leaps of conjecture regarding my distaste for Obama's candidacy as if I had some larger problem with facing race issues head on. I gave you a very thorough and thoughtful presentation of my problem with the rhetoric having had very personal experience and you essentially had nothing to say.

If you'd like to stop dragging your knuckles, simply pick them up from the ground. I'll be the lonely one walking around here with an upright gait when you're ready.

Once again, The Onion is strangely prophetic in political matters:

POLL: BS Is The Most Important Issue for 2008 Voters

It looks like this is going to have to be decided in Denver, after the first ballot
My Way News - Obama closing in on Clinton's advantage among superdelegates
Obama backer predicts victory in Hill war - Amie Parnes and Josephine Hearn - Politico.com

Well, I've asked several questions in this very thread about race, and nobody seems to have taken an interest in them, so I was sort of writing them off... Are you interested in responding to some of them?

ABC News: Hillary Ally Switches to Obama; Expects Clinton 'Attack Dogs'

Sure, I just ask that you not make me read through the entire thread to find them. Please ask them again and I will be more than happy to respond. For example, I found this on the last page;

Obama did denounce Wright because as it turns out, the more Wright spoke in clarifying his initial messages, the more apparent it became that he is an absolutely fanatical, angry, anti-American, anti-white person cult-like figure. Wright's "ministry" was great for Obama's face-time in the black community, but it has now become a political liability. I've had the opportunity of listening to larger portions of his sermons and I found it interesting there was no Bible on his pulpit and no reading of any passages or claiming any biblical principle. His institution (the one that gave him a couple of mercedes among other things) is a cover for a political movement. One that Obama participated in for 20 years. I think it is disgusting too, but for completely different reasons. If you actually listen to full excerpts of Wright's sermons in context they become worse, not better. There is no excuse. There is no twist, no spin, and no defense evidenced by the lack of an ability to defend them in this forum. All I hear is; "they were taken out of context" when in context, they're twice as bad. These are messages of hopelessness, anxiety, hatred, and division. They are fruitful to no one, especially the black community.

The "knee-jerk" reactions are very real and legitimate reactions to Wright's rhetoric. I have no problem discussing these issues in productive ways unfortunately, there is nothing productive about Wright's delivery. I tear people like Wright down because they are tearing down hundreds every Sunday.

If you DON'T have a swift "knee jerk" reaction to Wright's histrionics, then there's something wrong there. The guy is a loon.

Chongo, I think alot of that is behind-the-scenes arm-twisting by Dean & Co. They are constantly in the news biatching about how they want this primary over.