[design219]

Thanks Laminar

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

*giggle*

Eek! Apologies to Sek929!!!

Originally Posted by design219 

I too laugh at passive aggressive stuff

Huh?!? Talk about totally off the ball! I confused two people and numbers they have in their nicknames.

Talk about passive-aggressive, look no further than your sig.

[ironknee]

Jesus' main point in his ministry is that the "Kingdom of God" is coming and we must get ready for it.

"I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
Matthew 16:28 (New International Version)

"standing here" as he spoke the words to the people that were there..2000 years ago. in other words,,, coming soon!

so, the question is why is it taking 2000+ years or so for what jesus was preaching?

i know some say only when certain things must happen before the "second coming" will happen... but why does God need things to happen before he comes back? God is God right?

please explain, thanks

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Talk about passive-aggressive, look no further than your sig.

Up until now, I always wondered what his sig meant, but I just got it.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

please explain, thanks

No, you wouldn't believe it anyways...

-t

[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Up until now, I always wondered what his sig meant, but I just got it.

actually you probably didn't. (no offense) rr put a possible suggestion into what it means, which is probably completely wrong. thoughts of religion were in your head due to the thread. so what rr said + the thread + the guys sig = you to come to a possible false answer to your curiosity into what the sig means.

don't worry about it, suggestions can be a strong thing. just like the suggestions in some religions to practice certain things or else you'll go somewhere not so good.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

actually you probably didn't. (no offense) rr put a possible suggestion into what it means, which is probably completely wrong. thoughts of religion were in your head due to the thread. so what rr said + the thread + the guys sig = you to come to a possible false answer to your curiosity into what the sig means.

don't worry about it, suggestions can be a strong thing. just like the suggestions in some religions to practice certain things or else you'll go somewhere not so good.

You don't know what "tithe" means do you?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

actually you probably didn't. (no offense) rr put a possible suggestion into what it means, which is probably completely wrong. thoughts of religion were in your head due to the thread. so what rr said + the thread + the guys sig = you to come to a possible false answer to your curiosity into what the sig means.

I can't think of any other likely interpretation.

[subego]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

don't worry about it, suggestions can be a strong thing. just like the suggestions in some religions to practice certain things or else you'll go somewhere not so good.

That was what I thought it meant from the moment I saw it, long before this thread.

Atheist here, BTW.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

Jesus' main point in his ministry is that the "Kingdom of God" is coming and we must get ready for it.

"I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
Matthew 16:28 (New International Version)

"standing here" as he spoke the words to the people that were there..2000 years ago. in other words,,, coming soon!

so, the question is why is it taking 2000+ years or so for what jesus was preaching?

i know some say only when certain things must happen before the "second coming" will happen... but why does God need things to happen before he comes back? God is God right?

please explain, thanks

I can explain it easily. In the "little Apocalypse" of Mark 13, Jesus "predicts" the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE, and his own "enthronement" in heaven "coming in the clouds of heaven with power and glory." While the prior prediction is easy, the latter is hard to understand. What Mark is doing here is "repurposing" the Son of Man myth from Daniel to explain Jesus being raised to heaven instead of staying in Hades/Sheol.

You see, the Jews of Jesus' time did not believe that anyone died and went to heaven. Everyone went to Sheol at death (whether this was regarded as literal or allegorical is still uncertain). Mark's fundamental theology is: Jesus was raised to heaven to be with YHWH, and if you follow his teachings you too can be raised to be with YHWH. That's the meaning of the gospel of Mark. Mark's theology knows nothing of any "second coming."

The "second coming" idea comes from Paul. Paul, being the good Pharisee, knows that scriptural requirements of the Messiah (the Davidic dynasty restored, the goyim rulers being ousted, etc) were not fulfilled by Jesus in his lifetime, except the "awakening" of the dead, of which Jesus is the first. So he is expecting Jesus to return and fulfill the remaining Messianic prophesies "sometime soon."

Mark and Paul knew each other; the story of their hostility is only briefly mentioned in Acts of the Apostles. Mark thought Paul's ideas were ridiculous, and he implicitly mocks them in his gospel: "beware the leaven of the Herodians and the Pharisees." Mark regards Paul's teaching as a corruption of Jesus' Kingdom of God message.

The most important thing to know about the New Testament is: each writer has his own theological agenda. There is no single, consistent theology. Later writers like Matthew and Luke make clumsy attempts to merge Mark and Paul's ideas, but the results are uneven and transparently inconsistent.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Then explain all the conversion in Africa, Asia and India. Those are areas that do not have a history of cultural Christianity.

Actually, Ethiopia and India were exposed to Christianity by the early second century. The principle reason that Christianity didn't expand was linguistic. Judea, Egypt, Ethiopia, and India were linked by sea-trade via Alexandria. Where there was no trade (ie, deep Africa), there was no expansion.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

The atheists on this forum are against the Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. on this forum, not just their lifestyles, but the individuals themselves. There have been years of baiting, attacks, and belittlement.

Your persecution complex is clouding your understanding. I don't care in the slightest about you or your lifestyle.

I've very critical of Biblical inerrantists and Biblical literalists when they suggest that their religious views should guide public policies.

The Amish are among the most "extreme" religious group in the US, but they aren't shoving their religion on others, so they're fine with me; live and let live. Your typical "religious right" person is far less "extreme" religiously, but expect their views on gays, science education, or whatever to be implemented politically.

I've no interest in living in a theocracy. Don't drag your religion into politics and I won't make fun of your beliefs.

[ghporter]

Just to keep this lively (and somewhat on topic), I'll point out that EVERYONE has a faith. Even subego-the conviction that there is no deity at all is in itself a point of faith. I'll even posit that the OP had promise in starting this thread, because how one comes to his or her current faith is part of one's life development, socialization, culture, education, etc. Around me, most people claim to be Christian, but most of 'em wouldn't let Christ in their churches-too much hair, and those sandals!!!

Growing up in a religion is not necessarily a good marker for both understanding and following that religion. For example, we know a family of quite devout Orthodox Christians. Wonderful people, who actually know about the theology behind their religion, and observe what they observe because they believe in it-all of it. I have in-laws who grew up "Christian" but later actually took out their souls and examined them critically and thoroughly-their "hearts were changed by God," and they are now quite different people. Then there are the "Sunday Christians" we all see-they claim to have God on their side, but they almost all forget about those few very important teachings that Jesus went around spreading around like "love" and "accept". I kinda wonder if they ever wonder about the price of hypocrisy. Or know the definition...

[subego]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Your persecution complex is clouding your understanding. I don't care in the slightest about you or your lifestyle.

I think it's funny that you talk about persecution complexes, yet feel you need to respond to an accusation that wasn't made directly to you. I also find it funny that if somehow you don't care, that means there must be no persecution going on.

I may have my own persecution complex, after all, my real name is Joshua, but I don't have one with regards to my religion, since as I said I'm an atheist.

So it is with a complex free conscience that I state Shaddim's observation is unequivocally correct.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by subego 

I think it's funny that you talk about persecution complexes, yet feel you need to respond to an accusation that wasn't made directly to you. I also find it funny that if somehow you don't care, that means there must be no persecution going on.

I may have my own persecution complex, after all, my real name is Joshua, but I don't have one with regards to my religion, since as I said I'm an atheist.

So it is with a complex free conscience that I state Shaddim's observation is unequivocally correct.

Obviously, I need to school you some.

Shaddim was attacking me directly in this post. So yes, it was directed at me. Apology accepted.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Just to keep this lively (and somewhat on topic), I'll point out that EVERYONE has a faith. Even subego-the conviction that there is no deity at all is in itself a point of faith.

Uh huh. And not collecting stamps is a hobby.

[subego]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Even subego-the conviction that there is no deity at all is in itself a point of faith.

Just to be clear, there is an implied acknowledgment from me (as there is with almost everything I say) that I'm never 100% sure about anything.

Stating absolutely that there is no God would be exceedingly arrogant on my part. I think you'll find that even someone as hardcore as Richard Dawkins wouldn't make such a statement.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Because God changed my heart. Seriously, that's the only way it can happen. To say I had any input into it is to be theologically wrong.

So I can blame God for my atheism? Awesome.

[subego]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna