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Hawkeye_a · May 4, 2008 , 10:53 AM

Was browzing YouTube and stumbled upon this video. Absolutely amazing stuff. It's on the 1973 attempted elimination of Israel by it's Arab neighbors. Israel vs (Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq). Israel was outnumbered by 10-to-1.

The reason i wanted to post this is because it was new to me, and thought some of you might find it interesting. Check it out.

YouTube - History - Yom Kippur War (1973)

Cheers

P.S>> The dude who put this video up has a lot of other interesting docos up, check em out.

Chongo · May 4, 2008 , 12:02 PM

I heard my first lie from a teacher after this war. She told us the '73 Oil Embargo was because we (US) had a huge GDP that year and OPEC wanted more money because of it. At 11 we could watch TV, and knew better.
Operation Nickel Grass - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hawkeye_a · May 4, 2008 , 02:54 PM

Yeah i know of the U.S. assistance to Israel and the massive assistance the USSR 'sold' to the Arab states. Just the sheer fact that that tiny sliver of the mediterranean could fend off such a massive attack is just plain amazing to me.

Talk about coincidence, if the U.S. hadn't helped Israel in 73.... Saddam would have probably had nuclear weapons in 82.

SSharon · May 4, 2008 , 04:35 PM

If Israel hadn't bombed the Osirak reactor in 82 Iraq probably would have had nukes in the first gulf war.

And if Israel hadn't bombed the reactor in Iran a year ago they might be causing even more trouble than they are.

Chongo · May 4, 2008 , 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by SSharon

If Israel hadn't bombed the Osirak reactor in 82 Iraq probably would have had nukes in the first gulf war.

And if Israel hadn't bombed the reactor in Iran a year ago they might be causing even more trouble than they are.

That would be Syria.

SSharon · 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

That would be Syria.

It was in 1981, not 1982, but Osirak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia does lead me to believe it was Iraq.

(and since the wikipedia article is factually contested)
BBC ON THIS DAY | 7 | 1981: Israel bombs Baghdad nuclear reactor

Oh wait. You mean Iran. Yea, oops, studying for finals does make things confusing.

Big Mac · May 5, 2008 , 07:50 AM

The ironic thing is that those currently in power there (who are really essentially the same leaders who have always been in power in Israel) seem determined to repeat the mistakes of the past. Any thought of giving away the vitally important Golan would prove that Israel learned absolutely nothing from 1973 and would be the worst mistake by a country in the history of world.

Hawkeye_a · May 5, 2008 , 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by SSharon

It was in 1981, not 1982, but Osirak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia does lead me to believe it was Iraq.

(and since the wikipedia article is factually contested)
BBC ON THIS DAY | 7 | 1981: Israel bombs Baghdad nuclear reactor

Oh wait. You mean Iran. Yea, oops, studying for finals does make things confusing.

Since it was brought up..here's the doco on that incident. YouTube - History - Israeli airstrike on Iraqi nuclear reactor (1981)

Enjoy

subego · May 5, 2008 , 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Any thought of giving away the vitally important Golan would prove that Israel learned absolutely nothing from 1973 and would be the worst mistake by a country in the history of world.

Well, I could certainly see an argument made that things have changed.

Not necessarily the Syrians, but Israel's ability to blow things up has vastly improved.

Again, I'm not saying this is way to do it, but Israel is in a position to say "go ahead, make my day" in a way that they couldn't in '73.

Chongo · May 6, 2008 , 10:35 AM

Happy 60th anniversary.

peeb · May 9, 2008 , 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by SSharon

It was in 1981, not 1982, but Osirak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia does lead me to believe it was Iraq.

(and since the wikipedia article is factually contested)
BBC ON THIS DAY | 7 | 1981: Israel bombs Baghdad nuclear reactor

Oh wait. You mean Iran. Yea, oops, studying for finals does make things confusing.

Iraq, Iran, Syria, aren't they all a bit brown? It doesn't seem like a knowledge of the region is very important in current US policy either, so don't feel too bad about it.

vmarks · May 9, 2008 , 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by peeb

Iraq, Iran, Syria, aren't they all a bit brown? It doesn't seem like a knowledge of the region is very important in current US policy either, so don't feel too bad about it.

Nice. Accuse racism in an underhanded manner, rather than address anything substantive. This remark seems out of character for you.

SSharon · May 10, 2008 , 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by peeb

Iraq, Iran, Syria, aren't they all a bit brown? It doesn't seem like a knowledge of the region is very important in current US policy either, so don't feel too bad about it.

Whatever. Didn't seem like the craziest mistake to make while dealing with finals. I admitted my mistake and made no attempt to cover it up, what more do you want? I was even kind enough to correct the mistake that no one else mentioned.

The terrorists that operate out of those countries don't seem to know much about geopolitical borders either. A nuke for any of the countries mentioned is a nuke for all of them since they all have their weapons pointed in the same place anyway.

peeb · May 11, 2008 , 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by SSharon

Whatever. ...
The terrorists that operate out of those countries don't seem to know much about geopolitical borders either. A nuke for any of the countries mentioned is a nuke for all of them since they all have their weapons pointed in the same place anyway.

I was affirming this. The idea that these countries are interchangeable and not distinguishable in practice, all of them scheming to 'nuke' their neighbors given half a chance is entrenched in the highest levels of policy, as well as the public mind. It's a perfectly reasonable mistake to make.

vmarks · May 11, 2008 , 02:37 PM

Sure, there wouldn't be anything in history that would lead one to make that error, would there?

Like when the surrounding Arab nations attacked Israel after Israel declared its independence? Or the 1967 war where the surrounding nations attacked again?

Or the fact that Iran controls Hamas, and HizbAllah of Syria, HizbAllah in Syria controls HizbAllah Lebanon, and Iran is friendly with North Korea, which explains why HizbAllah had North Korean rockets in last summer's war against Israel?

Or the fact that Iraq (Persians, not Arabs, but it didn't seem to matter much in their regard towards Israel) trained terrorists to attack Israel, and Hussein's regime gave stipends to the families of suicide attackers?

No, there's no reason why one couldn't confuse the countries at all.

Instead, you blame his confusion on them all being, well,

Originally Posted by peeb

aren't they all a bit brown?

Sheesh. It's almost like they form an axis of something.

peeb · May 11, 2008 , 04:21 PM

No need to be defensive Vmarks, I was saying that you grouping the 'Arab' nations into one mass of vaguely sinister brown people is a common thing in the US, don't feel too bad about it.

vmarks · May 11, 2008 , 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by peeb

No need to be defensive Vmarks, I was saying that you grouping the 'Arab' nations into one mass of vaguely sinister brown people is a common thing in the US, don't feel too bad about it.

Except that I didn't (note that I was careful to differentiate Arab from Persian), and you exposed your racist streak by making that accusation.

Don't worry, we understand why you might think it's all about brown people - your government has you conditioned! (or at least, that's what you said was your excuse.)

peeb · May 11, 2008 , 08:15 PM

Calm down vmarks. All I'm saying is that your inability to tell one group of scary brown people in the middle east from another is not unusual for where you come from.

vmarks · May 11, 2008 , 09:47 PM

What's really frightening is your complete inability to read.

In three separate posts, I've covered why there is a difference between these countries, and what they have in common historically and politically/militarily that would lead a person to be confused by them.

You missed the fact that I wasn't the person who was confused by them - I wasn't.

You also keep saying this ugly racist 'brown people' nonsense. It really makes you look like the racist for thinking this has to be the cause - there can't be any rational reason why SSharon might have mixed up the names of a country, can there? No, not to you.

So, when are you going to stop being a racist?

SSharon · May 11, 2008 , 10:36 PM

Wow. I knew I posted in a hurry and while distracted and stressed out because of finals but who would have known it would have started this.
My point was that Israel's overt and covert operations in many of the middle eastern countries has helped the U.S. (and arguably the rest of the world). So they knock out a reactor in one country and target a terrorist leader in another, the end result as far as the point of this thread is the same.

peeb · May 12, 2008 , 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by vmarks

So, when are you going to stop being a racist?

Nice personal attack Vmarks, calm down and do a little reading on the issue.

Chongo · May 12, 2008 , 08:49 AM

The problem is that Iran's nuclear program has been in the news for some time, where Syria's was not. The press on what exactly Israel took out in bombing the facili