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We are entering a post-partisan age
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
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I have a theory I've been working on for a while now, let me know what you think...
The classic Democrat/Republican philosophical differences and the basis for the economic/social political compasses used to plot our political ideology essentially amount to differences in tax code/welfare/economic models and social liberties/government interference/religion. During this election cycle, most of these arguments have taken a back seat to issues such as energy policy, health care, education, the environment, etc. Even social security seems to not be discussed a whole lot this time around, and it wasn't long ago where issues such as stem cell research and abortion were debate issues (I remember these being discussed in a Kerry/Bush debate).
Regarding many of these issues, your average non-ideological American (i.e. the vast majority) likely do not care whether their transportation costs are lowered by a Democrat or a Republican, they just want to see progress. In a perfect world, several may prefer that the solutions to these problems do not contradict their political philosophy of choice, but based on the "is this country headed in the right direction" polls, clearly the vast majority of American citizens recognize that we are facing many problems right now, and this transcends the political parties and the 50/50 partisan deadlock we have seen recently.
I think one of the big reasons why Obama and McCain are where they are now and Hillary is where she is is the recognition of this climate. Instead of waging in the traditional political battles, McCain and Obama have been basing their platforms around change (Obama in a very obvious way, and McCain in being a "maverick" Senator that can work with Democrats). I'm wondering whether in a time of crisis such as this, people tend to put aside their political philosophies and vote for whichever candidate/party seems like they will be the most functional and able to get things done, the latter requiring a certain amount of popularity?
A lot of the Democratic criticism over the last 7 years has been heated, and very intense. Often times, Democrats blame Bush for failures he is not solely responsible for. For instance, the changing and emerging global economy is a product of the times, not a failure of Bush. Where criticism of this administration is fair, I think, is in being slow to notice things changing, slow to adjust, and in some cases flat out refusing to even acknowledge failures, changes, or things not working. This has helped feed an enormous mistrust and feeling of there being a severe disconnect between your average citizen and his/her government. What McCain has working against him is the natural projection of people that McCain will continue on in this direction, that he shares many of these values, and that things won't change where change is due. It will be enormously difficult for McCain to suggest that he will change what needs to be changed without alienating the party faithful that decided they were going to vote for a Republican long before they even knew who the Republican candidates would be...
I also wonder if we are entering a post-pandering, post-BS age of sorts...
A few years ago, if your died-in-the-wool Republican heard that Hillary Clinton would be cozying up to the-pro gun people, drinking beer with the "common folk", and giving rallies out of the back of a pickup truck, they probably would have thrown up in their mouths a little. I find it really interesting that Hillary started out appealing to the died-in-the-wool Democratas where Obama attracted far more Republicans and Independents, and then Hillary decided to take on a more populist tone in her campaign and do the pickup truck thing. This seemed to work to some extent, since Hillary has been doing well in many rural communities, but not enough to win her the nomination. Contrast this to Mr. straight talking McCain, and Obama, who really didn't change much about who Barack Obama is since the start of his campaign, and it might be said that people are slowly starting to see through the pandering, and wanting their politicians to be more "real". Unfortunately, the political climate of jumping down the throat of anybody who says something that smells remotely un-politically correct makes this difficult, but I digress..
What do you think? Do you think that most people really don't give a rat's ass about parties right now? I know how many of *you* feel about parties, but have you talked to enough people that are not terribly politically informed? What is your impression?
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
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I think we're seeing a post-Bush moderate vacuum. Everyone is getting sucked into the middle.
Everyone who isn't trying to hold onto politics from a decade ago, that is.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth
I think we're seeing a post-Bush moderate vacuum. Everyone is getting sucked into the middle.
Everyone who isn't trying to hold onto politics from a decade ago, that is.
I think there is more to it than that. If people are gravitating towards Obama moreso than Hillary, would you say that he is more moderate? Yet, in several recent primaries, Hillary has been dominating the rural vote.
I think there is a little more to it than a change in our political compass, although I agree that as a whole, we have shifted further to the left.
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Obama represents the new guard (overly idealistic, young voters), Hilary the old guard (older established voters). No surprise Hilary would appeal to the rural vote that way.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth
Obama represents the new guard (overly idealistic, young voters), Hilary the old guard (older established voters). No surprise Hilary would appeal to the rural vote that way.
So what does McCain represent? Why would many Republican states go for Obama when they are likely to vote for McCain in the general election?
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Dislike of the Clintons?
Or
McCain has always tried to portray himself as a straight shooter (think his Daily Show appearances). In my opinion Hilary has never come off as genuine. Perhaps this is because of her proximity to Bill or what I read as her very bald-faced aspirations. Obama, on the other hand, seems to believe what he's saying, even if we're not all in agreement as to what it is.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Do you think people care who ultimately makes their transportation cheaper, Dakar?
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
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Obama represents the politically naive left, and Hillary represents the politically seasoned left.
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Apple and Intel: As kosher as a cheeseburger.
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
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The idealists versus the connivers.
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Originally Posted by besson3c
Do you think people care who ultimately makes their transportation cheaper, Dakar?
I don't think so, but I honestly can't make a good read on what the hot-button issue is. If we actually go into a recession the Dems will make a play on that, and history favors them in such a situation.
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 2004
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I think Obama and Hillary are not that far left. It's just that our reference has shifted so much to the right in recent years.
The issues that are being called "left" are the things America has to obtain at this point: A workable healthcare system, an end to our crazy budget-draining escapade in Iraq, an energy policy that considers our future—not friends of the white house, a supreme court that is not stacked with conservatives, and on and on.
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Stay Home Sunday ... Save 10%!
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Originally Posted by besson3c
Do you think people care who ultimately makes their transportation cheaper
May I interest you in an engine that runs on ground up puppies?
I mean, the ****ers have it coming.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: the 30th Aether
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Originally Posted by subego
May I interest you in an engine that runs on ground up puppies?
I mean, the ****ers have it coming.
Can I get 0-60 in <4 secs? If so, drop it in my new M3.
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not all those who wander are lost
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Moderator 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
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Originally Posted by besson3c
Why would many Republican states go for Obama when they are likely to vote for McCain in the general election?
Because Republicans hate the hell out of Hillary Clinton?
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Chuck
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"If you mean time-traveling bunnies, then yes."
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Damn, I thought we were entering the 'Age of Aquarius'. 
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Mac Elite
Join Date: May 2001
Location: type 13 planet
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Originally Posted by Shaddim
Can I get 0-60 in <4 secs? If so, drop it in my new M3.
You got a new one? You suck.
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New, Improved and Legal in 50 States
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Forum Regular
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Beverly Hills
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Here's what I think is happening. Obviously it is the people in the middle, not the staunch R's or D's who decide the election. Usually in good times the middle goes slightly Republican, because they like the ego trip of complaining about taxes being too high and the government stepping into their lives. But then when big problems hit these very same Americans, like that they can't afford college, health care or gasoline, then the ego trip goes away and they want Democrats to make a social program to help them attain the American dream.
Another factor is that Bush and all the Republicans have lied so much on a daily basis about how the war is winnable that people are simply numb to anything they say. It is like the doublespeak from 1984. Eventually you just have to tune it out. So no matter how a Republican voter might like to believe that other Republicans can address energy independence it is simply impossible to believe these guys at this point. So all but the staunchest of Republicans have to simply go somewhere else to find some room to breathe.
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Originally Posted by pooka
You got a new one? You suck.
TODAY! I was out driving all day and most of the evening. TOO MANY GADGETS. I'm just trying to figure out what all the knobs do.
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not all those who wander are lost
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2005
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I'm so glad that we're now in a post-partisan era and that we won't have to deal with politics as usual. I'm pretty sure that utopia is just around the corner.
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