[besson3c]

Basically the anti-Obama movement seems to be sort of entrenched in the "let's throw a bunch of stuff at the wall this week and see what sticks" tactic?

Throughout the campaign season we've gone from Wright to flag pins to Joe the Plumber to Socialism to whatever else (see the long list I assembled during campaign season). At the time Obama's enemies wanted people to believe that this "thing" was some smoking gun that had been uncovered and/or whatever was being said some incredibly salient, insightful argument. These sort of came and went in waves and eventually disappeared into oblivion. Listening to some of the stuff the Tea Party people have been recorded saying on video, and we have a mix of some reruns, a mix of whatever damaging sound byte has traction that week, and a mix of downright crazy stuff about Muslims and terrorists and citizenship and Obama being happy about 9/11 and Hitler comparisons and whatever else (as Bill Mahr would say, this is sort of the sit-on-a-park-bench-and-yell-at-pigeons crowd). Whatever can be used to back unwavering viewpoints is fair game for as long as it is useful, then on to the next thing.

There are also times when people say all of this stuff with such intensity and fervor for a while, and then just sort of stop or at least die down when new information surfaces. For instance, knowing that the government will not be subsidizing the public option with exception to the credits to what the administration says is 5% of the country will probably lessen the "we can't afford it" cries (true or not), as will the claims about illegal immigrants being debunked (or at least attempted to), etc. There are never any concessions, any "oh, I guess we were wrong about that", just cross out whatever was on that protest sign, replace it with something else, get back out onto the streets and continue to protest away with the same fervor and intensity until that next thing dies out, repeat ad nausea.

I appreciate the fact that many of you have been steady and consistent in many or most of the things you dislike about Obama's politics (although many of you have chosen to jump aboard the "Obama's out to destroy America express" from time to time as it has suited too). I realize that this is cyclical and that during the Bush administration we saw the same thing, I'm sure we've all done this.

I guess all of this works, but to many others the sorts of things that are said (I'm referring to the crazier Birthers/Muslim/Hitler comparison/etc. sort of stuff) either often come across as completely batshit crazy, or just completely and entirely transparent in trying to further a cause just because, with no real objectivity or reasoning. Can you go too far? Have any of you generally anti-Obama people ever thought "whoah, that dude is going a little too far" and worried about people taking the things you say less seriously out of association? Have you ever worried about coming across as just another one of those people who jump aboard whatever train is leaving the station for that week? Do you ever feel like you need to distance yourself from some of the stuff going on and being said? Do you find yourself torn between the idea of hurting Obama, yet not really agreeing with the tactics or the literal meaning of what is being said or suggested? What do you decide to do? What is your resolution?

I think there is definitely reasonable and worthy criticism that can be targeted at the things the Obama administration is doing (as is true for any administration), but a lot of what I'm seeing right now (or at least what the media has been focusing on) seems completely downright crazy like I've never seen before. Is this new? Am I the only one that thinks that the overall environment is really showcasing crazy and over-the-top like we've never seen before?

[Chongo]

Is the potential trade war with China fair game? Looks like he's been channeling Herbert Hoover.
FT.com / China - US tyre duties spark China clash

A full-blown trade row erupted between the US and China after Beijing accused Washington of “rampant protectionism” for imposing heavy duties on imported Chinese tyres and threatened action against imports of US poultry and vehicles.

Trade relations between two of the world’s biggest economies deteriorated after Barack Obama, US president, signed an order late on Friday to impose a new duty of 35 per cent on Chinese tyre imports on top of an existing 4 per cent tariff.

[Big Mac]

Why is besson obsessed with what conservatives think and say?

[smacintush]

Yeah, it's great isn't it Bessy? The 2010 mid-terms oughta be even more fun than watching the Bears choke last night!

[andi*pandi]

there is no truth; there is only who is shouting loudest.

[ort888]

I was arguing with my mom about wether anyone would even remember the whole "Joe Wilson-YOU LIE" thing a year from now during his race. My argument was that no one will even be talking about it (Nationally) in a week, because Obama would probably eat the wrong kind of hot dog or something, and all of the nation's focus will move on to that.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by ort888 

I was arguing with my mom about wether anyone would even remember the whole "Joe Wilson-YOU LIE" thing a year from now during his race. My argument was that no one will even be talking about it (Nationally) in a week, because Obama would probably eat the wrong kind of hot dog or something, and all of the nation's focus will move on to that.

People won't forget because his campaign won't let them. That one phrase is earning him tons of campaign money and support.

[besson3c]

Is frightening, actually. I love crazy, but real life crazy scares me.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ort888 

I was arguing with my mom about wether anyone would even remember the whole "Joe Wilson-YOU LIE" thing a year from now during his race. My argument was that no one will even be talking about it (Nationally) in a week, because Obama would probably eat the wrong kind of hot dog or something, and all of the nation's focus will move on to that.

There are wrong kinds of hot dogs??!! I always figured that whatever kind of wiener you can put in your mouth is fair game.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

There are wrong kinds of hot dogs??!!

Here's one:

[besson3c]

Well, that's more of a submarine sandwich, and everybody and their dog knows that there are wrong kinds of subs. That sub at least needs some mustard.

[Uncle Skeleton]

And that's only half the reason it's the wrong kind of hot dog

[BadKosh]

Even being a paid mouthpiece for ACORN seems to have worked against 0bama. Like him picking Van Jones. 0bamas fault. He and his admin are falling apart due in most part to the poorly qualified people working with him. 0bama picked them too.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by BadK0sh 

0bama. 0bamas 0bama

That is s0 sad

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Even being a paid mouthpiece for ACORN seems to have worked against 0bama. Like him picking Van Jones. 0bamas fault. He and his admin are falling apart due in most part to the poorly qualified people working with him. 0bama picked them too.

Great example here!

Are any of you guys worried about being taken less seriously by being associated with people like BadKosh who evidently can't resist spelling Obama's name without a zero while making an argument that I would imagine he wants us to take seriously?

[ort888]

If enough people keep saying Obama is falling apart people will start to believe it. That seems to be the tactic anyway.

Then a Republican will get elected and most lefties will do the same, and then a democrat will get elected and the right will go nuts again.

It's the circle of life. No common ground. Just endless pointless squabbling over pointless things like a congressman yelling in congress, or how a guy orders a burger, or one guy with one gun at one rally. Who cares.

The world is always ending, the country is alway in peril and the times are always dire. What a world we live in.

[besson3c]

Ort: surely there is a significant population of people that see this too and are far less inclined to take these "world is ending" types of people seriously? How do you compete with this as a savvy and informed Republican or Democrat who wants to be taken seriously? Does this dumbing down of the debate not have a negative effect to people of all political affiliations?

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Ort: surely there is a significant population of people that see this too and are far less inclined to take these "world is ending" types of people seriously?

That's why certain forces perpetually attack public education, to reduce the size of that population.

[besson3c]

No input from Republicans on this, huh?

[Big Mac]

What input are you looking for?

[besson3c]

Can you go too far? Have any of you generally anti-Obama people ever thought "whoah, that dude is going a little too far" and worried about people taking the things you say less seriously out of association? Have you ever worried about coming across as just another one of those people who jump aboard whatever train is leaving the station for that week? Do you ever feel like you need to distance yourself from some of the stuff going on and being said? Do you find yourself torn between the idea of hurting Obama, yet not really agreeing with the tactics or the literal meaning of what is being said or suggested? What do you decide to do? What is your resolution?

I think there is definitely reasonable and worthy criticism that can be targeted at the things the Obama administration is doing (as is true for any administration), but a lot of what I'm seeing right now (or at least what the media has been focusing on) seems completely downright crazy like I've never seen before. Is this new? Am I the only one that thinks that the overall environment is really showcasing crazy and over-the-top like we've never seen before?

These questions, for starters...

[besson3c]

This video ties in nicely with this thread:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mo...4-2009/mad-men

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

These questions, for starters...

No one of significance.


The only significant voices in this country aren't going far enough.

[besson3c]

Snow-i: what is that in response to? What do you mean?

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

this video ties in nicely with this thread:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mo...4-2009/mad-men

404

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Why is besson obsessed with what conservatives think and say?

That's a good question. On the other hand, why do we care what besson is obsessed with?

Responding to this thread with the correct completion of the title:

The next problem with whatever Obama wants to do = racism

is just spitting in the wind. Seems pretty obvious, but folks just don't want to admit it. It's a shame that Limbaugh is just now picking this up (or so I've heard): everyone I know has said this since he became the Democrat party frontrunner. Anything that anyone says is now about being a racist. I'm amazed that the Left burned through it's almost-legitimate rationale for policy changes so quickly, because the racism thing is about all they have left now.

They probably won't get to use it more than once, so the effort better be good this time.

[ebuddy]

besson;

Of course people get all riled up about the "issue of the day". You see this with those who kept calling for us to be in Afghanistan instead of Iraq thinking it was a great idea. Now, they're opposing Afghanistan. The President is the policies that come from and/or through his Administration. As you mention, this was so for Bush and it is no less the case for Obama.

You mentioned health care so I'll go with that for a sec.
- Sweeping paranoia and hysteria about "death panels", then they were removed.
- Sweeping paranoia and hysteria about a public option, but if Congress was on board, it'd pass no?
- Sweeping paranoia and hysteria about illegal immigrants and I hear now that an ID verification will be part of health care reform.

You see, this is politics. If the right has their way there will be no public option. That's the bottom line here. There are a number of aspects of a public option to oppose it, but there's no reason to shoot the entire wad out of the gate. You're going to pick those items that you feel will resonate most with the public. I'd say whatever tactic is being used to destroy the most contentious pieces of this legislation is working. It is up to the Obama Administration to thrust their idea more effectively. They have more money, they have more resources, they have the majority in office, and they have the bully-pulpit of the Presidency.

Instead, you have the .05% from the batsh!t crazy pro-Obama camp calling the opposition "hicks", "racists", "nazis", etc... You have the President calling the opposition liars. You have the President repeatedly invoking the prior Administration. None of these are working. It is eventually going to (if not beginning to already) connect the President to the batsh!t craziest of them.

I'll be honest with you besson. I think this entire rant is founded from the fact that Obama has had a very bad summer in terms of policy initiative. It is starting to affect his overall approval ratings and none of this sets well with you at all. You have made your favor of this President as evident as anyone I've seen on NN for any politician. Granted this is only my opinion, but I'd submit your hotdog thread as going into the abyss of the obvious and... shameless quite frankly.

It seems to me you're willing to point to the fringe .02% who are calling President Obama a Hitler, or Muslim, the birthers' claims, etc... because you want someone else to blame for this President's policy failures.

[besson3c]

Okay, no interest in addressing my questions then, I take it?

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Okay, no interest in addressing my questions then, I take it?

Oh. See I was just seeing your rant and raising you one. I wasn't under the impression that these were supposed to be construed as serious questions. I'll certainly give 'em my best shot though.

Basically the anti-Obama movement seems to be sort of entrenched in the "let's throw a bunch of stuff at the wall this week and see what sticks" tactic?

Of course, but I'd qualify that anti-Obamaism does not arrive in either a hot or a cold state, but a long continuum from the most vocal to the least. I think you're entrenched in extremes for reasons I explained above. I hope you got more than your missed questions out of that post.

Can you go too far? Have any of you generally anti-Obama people ever thought "whoah, that dude is going a little too far" and worried about people taking the things you say less seriously out of association? Have you ever worried about coming across as just another one of those people who jump aboard whatever train is leaving the station for that week? Do you ever feel like you need to distance yourself from some of the stuff going on and being said? Do you find yourself torn between the idea of hurting Obama, yet not really agreeing with the tactics or the literal meaning of what is being said or suggested? What do you decide to do? What is your resolution?

• Yes of course you can go too far.
• Of course I've thought; "whoa, that dude is going a little too far". in fact I heard it tonight from some country yokel singers that only perpetrates the madness, but it didn't surprise me because I've also thought; "whoa, that dude, Senator, or Governor, or President is going a little too far." I'm often intrigued by the prioritization here.
• I distance myself from them often.
• I don't get off on hurting Obama. I'd prefer a marionette who speaks well over a marionette who doesn't personally. I'm just being honest here. Of course, one can judge policy by its merits and acknowledge the President's role in it without it being relegated to nothing more than "wanting to hurt the President". I think this position stems from an emotional and defensive attitude.
• My resolution is to always try to separate the valid from the absurd. I have a political lean, but I'm generally discriminating in my battles. This means I often acknowledge the perspective of my respondent and can find solidarity a fair amount of the time IMO. I acknowledge that very few are the villainous creatures they are made out to be and that most want to help people and improve conditions. I try to address ideals as they are presented to me and people by how they address me. Questions and all.

but a lot of what I'm seeing right now (or at least what the media has been focusing on) seems completely downright crazy like I've never seen before. Is this new? Am I the only one that thinks that the overall environment is really showcasing crazy and over-the-top like we've never seen before?

• I'd take your statement in parenthesis above as a starting point to replace focusing on with selling. Then you'll have an answer to your question, but that depends on what you're watching or... watching for IMO.
• No it is not new and whenever I remind folks of this they immediately assume I'm consenting to it.
• It is by all measures, a media circus. It's not just you. Our focus is likely just different.

[besson3c]

Thanks for your response ebuddy. I agree that you are generally discriminating in your battles.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

404

It looks like their permalink thing is broken. Go to the Daily Show home page and click on the Mad Men clip:

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