[besson3c]

I suppose I have a rep in here as being Lefty Lefterson because I often disagree with many of you clowns, but this is not true as you will hopefully see for yourself. Perhaps if less energy was spent with your rant du jour and more listening and learning to other people this disconnect wouldn't be as apparent, but I digress... I disagree with the way many of you guys frame things and with your solutions, but I don't necessarily feel that what we're doing as a country is ideal, and this most certainly includes the Obama admin.

Bank bailouts: I wasn't sure whether there was an urgency here or not, but I agreed with them in principle under the condition that we make aggressive changes to help prevent the banking collapse from happening again. So far, it's been about a year and we've seen no change. I find myself agreeing with what Michael Moore seems to be saying on this based on some of his brief interviews about his upcoming movie. Obama admin fail.

Auto bailout: While the principle of preventing jobs from being lost seemed sound, I'm not sure that the bailout has really helped much. I've yet to hear how the benefactors of these businesses will be changing their auto production, for starters, or what this leads to and what our road map is moving forward. When you just throw money at a problem and don't fix the root causes, this is also a fail.

Iraq: we're still there, no end date in site. Fail.

Afghanistan: same

Gitmo: still open

Environmental reform: weak

Health care: yet to be seen, but the debate has spun out of control

Immigration reform: hasn't happened

Agribusiness reform: ditto



I cut the admin some slack for having a toonnnnn of stuff to work through, but it's hard to give them a complete grade for much of anything yet. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect that some piece of major legislation that is actual genuine reform and not band-aid/bail out type legislation be passed by now. I have a hard time understanding the argument that Obama is doing stuff "too fast", I'd say not fast enough. I don't know how much time they need, but the glacial pace of progress is extremely frustrating.

US politics suck. Several Republicans are flat-out nuts (particularly the birther, 9/12, Beck, tea party bunch), many Democrats are quick to defend mediocrity and/or lack a spine, and people are complete f-ing morons. When I work through that above list, it's beyond insane to me that we have time to be worrying about Obama's birth certificate, Palin's latest Twitter posts, and whatever else. I'm tired of the media catering towards morons, and simultaneously setting up everything to be a perpetual yelling match between the nuts on the far left and far right (or dumb vs. dumber, in no particular order). In the process nobody understands each other nor has the ability to restrain themselves from reactionary idiocy that I feel helps lead to this glacially slow rate of progress.

At times I feel like I'd be best off to sit this out and watch from the sidelines. It's so incredibly depressing... I often find the idiocy of the general populace to be even more distressing than the actual state of the nation, and US politicians on both sides of the aisle generally don't seem to dissuade me of this notion.

Please do not use this as a launch board for your latest partisan rant about how one party or the other can't get anything right, I don't care which side it is coming from. I'm just wondering if any of this resonates with any of you?

[turtle777]

Maybe we should have the mods lock this right here, so the thread doesn't get spoiled.

-t

[hyteckit]

Obama is a moderate capitalist.

Who we need is a liberal progressive.

Pres. Obama needs to stop being bipartisan and just tell the Republicans to go screw themselves cause all Republicans care about is pretend to work with the President, but sabotage him every chance they get.


Gitmo needs to be close. Date is set by the end of the year I believe.
Need to pull out of Iraq. Suppose to be pull out and let Iraqi government police the place.
Afghan War was suppose the war we should've gone in and should've won. Pres. Bush screwed it up by focusing too much on Iraq. Afghan War is a lost cause and losing support. I think we should pull out of Afghan as well.

Pull our troops out of Iraq and Afghan.
Cut our national defense by half.

Focus on our economy and healthcare reform.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I disagree with the way many of you guys frame things and with your solutions, but I don't necessarily feel that what we're doing as a country is ideal, and this most certainly includes the Obama admin.

This resonates with me. I've often wondered when the marriage between government and corporation evident in this Administration would become an affront to traditional liberalism. It took a while, but this post shows signs that it does. I would add to your list;

Policy on torture: now rendition, same if not worse in terms of humanitarianism.

Policy on wiretapping: same

I have a hard time understanding the argument that Obama is doing stuff "too fast", I'd say not fast enough. I don't know how much time they need, but the glacial pace of progress is extremely frustrating.

Had they taken more than 10 hours to review and pass $780 billion dollars in stimulus, they may have attempted to curb some of the lost expenses for-naught you site above for example. They may have afforded themselves enough political capital for health care reform. i.e. so many "crisis", so little time. When people accuse Obama of "doing stuff too fast" they're not talking about actual legislation that facilitates positive change, they're talking about a lot of money thrown at a lot of different things building a whole bunch of little bureaucracies with little by way of a long-term plan to facilitate positive change. The complaint (take it or leave it) is that it seems there's a greater interest in growing the government real fast than doing something to actually mitigate the root cause of a problem.

Where I think this Administration deserves credit is in at least bringing these issues to light. I think we need to look at issues like health care reform, torture, wiretapping and other abuses of civil liberties, disparity between the poor and the rich, the motive and purpose of war, foreign policy-how to deal with rogue nations and civil unrest, the size and scope of government, fiscal policy, etc... These discussions are painful and contentious. They will invariably bring out the most vocal from both extremes, but this is not necessarily a bad thing. If your eyes are moving to and fro looking for morons and psychos, you will find an abundance of them, but it has always been this way. If you don't like them, don't give them a voice.

US politics suck. Several Republicans are flat-out nuts (particularly the birther, 9/12, Beck, tea party bunch), many Democrats are quick to defend mediocrity and/or lack a spine, and people are complete f-ing morons.

A Democrat started the "birther" issue with a lawsuit filed in August 2008; PHILIP J. BERG V Barack H. Obama
There is absolutely nothing "nuts" about the 9/12 movement, Glenn Beck, or the "Tea Party bunch". Besides, I've heard all kinds of criticism on Beck's delivery and inconsequential errors, but nothing of substance against the crux of his exposé. He spends a great deal of time railing on the exact same failures you are from both Democrats and Republicans, but too many hear something critical of Obama and assume he's some "voice of Republicans" without having a clue what he's talking about nor an argument against it. It just feeds into the hype of partisan antagonism. They are concerned folks with a dissenting opinion from yours. Are there nuts among them? You bet. Any time you gather over a million people in anything you're going to have nuts there. I could point to a bunch of folks at any number of gay rallies and say; "look at that crazy 'gay bunch', but that isn't really fair or honest. One could've cited any number of the anti-Iraq war protests prevalent during the Bush Administration (amazingly silent now) and say the "anti-Iraq war bunch" is nuts. Again, this is just feeding into the partisan divide, separating you from me and enabling the government inaction you're railing against here.

When I work through that above list, it's beyond insane to me that we have time to be worrying about Obama's birth certificate,

No one really is. I've not heard much on this. Is it making the rounds in liberal tabloid again? (under the guise of ridiculing it?)

Palin's latest Twitter posts

Honestly? No one really cares all that much about Palin. People who oppose her really give her a larger voice than anyone else. Any time she says anything (because of how it's said) she gets all kinds of attention from the left. Just ignore her. She'll go away.

and whatever else. I'm tired of the media catering towards morons, and simultaneously setting up everything to be a perpetual yelling match between the nuts on the far left and far right (or dumb vs. dumber, in no particular order). In the process nobody understands each other nor has the ability to restrain themselves from reactionary idiocy that I feel helps lead to this glacially slow rate of progress.

At times I feel like I'd be best off to sit this out and watch from the sidelines. It's so incredibly depressing... I often find the idiocy of the general populace to be even more distressing than the actual state of the nation, and US politicians on both sides of the aisle generally don't seem to dissuade me of this notion.

Please do not use this as a launch board for your latest partisan rant about how one party or the other can't get anything right, I don't care which side it is coming from. I'm just wondering if any of this resonates with any of you?

It really does resonate with me besson, but I don't have a problem with the yelling. I think we've gotten so scared of passion in this country and "taking a side" that we're unable to throw all the ideas on the table and hash 'em out. This one is too far to the left, this one is too far to the right, etc... while the rest of us are standing in the middle of the road facing oncoming traffic.

Again, I think it is possible that what you're witnessing here is not this Administration losing to the media or hamstrung by the partisan loudmouths and psychos, but a governing philosophy and methodology manifest in failure. I believe this Administration had mistaken the moratorium on Republicans as a moratorium on Conservatism. No one voted to "fundamentally transform the nation", they voted to fix a couple of the biggies, get rid of corruption and croneyism, increase transparency, etc... While trying to do too much and under what until recently was a filibuster-proof majority, you still have to maintain the vote of a people who have been sorely miscalculated by this Administration. What they've brought to the fore in public discourse however has been all good.

Besides, if you abandon hope in this Administration there will be no one left worth a sh!t to yell at.

[besson3c]

I completely disagree with most of what you have written ebuddy, but thanks for your post nonetheless (I don't mean this in a sarcastic fashion).

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I completely disagree with most of what you have written ebuddy, but thanks for your post nonetheless (I don't mean this in a sarcastic fashion).

Realistically, there are many kinds of possible disappointments in Obama

a) disappointment that his socialist / marxist agenda is a pipe dream and can't be implemented
b) disappointment that his socialist / marxist agenda is pursued nonetheless, even though it will kill our economy
c) disappointment that he doesn't get anything done, other than talking (which, coincidentally, is positive if you ask others)
d) disappointment that he and the Democrats are filthy politicians, just like the Republicans

etc...

-t

[besson3c]

Turtle: I stopped reading once I saw "socialist/marxist", because I respectfully disagree with that too...

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Turtle: I stopped reading once I saw "socialist/marxist", because I respectfully disagree with that too...

Point c and d might be more to your liking.

But what else are his proposals ? They are not Capitalistic or Market-Economy based...

-t

[turtle777]

FEUDALISM
You have two cows. Your lord takes some of the milk.
PURE SOCIALISM
You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows. You have to take care of all the cows. The government gives you as much milk as you need.
BUREAUCRATIC SOCIALISM
You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows. They are cared for by ex-chicken farmers. You have to take care of the chickens the government took from the chicken farmers. The government gives you as much milk and eggs as the regulations say you should need.
FASCISM
You have two cows. The government takes them both, hires you to take care of them and sells you the milk.
PURE COMMUNISM
You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take care of them, and you all share the milk.
RUSSIAN COMMUNISM
You have two cows. You have to take care of them, but the government takes all the milk.
CAMBODIAN COMMUNISM
You have two cows. The government takes both and shoots you.
DICTATORSHIP
You have two cows. The government takes both and drafts you.
PURE DEMOCRACY
You have two cows. Your neighbors decide who gets the milk.
REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY
You have two cows. Yours neighbors pick somone to tell you who gets the milk.
BUREAUCRACY
You have two cows. At first the government regulates what you can feed them and when you can milk them. Then it pays you not to milk them. Then it takes both, shoots one, milks the other one and pours the milk down the drain. Then it requires you to fill out forms accounting for the missing cows. In triplicate.
ANARCHY
You have two cows. Either you sell the milk at a fair price or your neighbors take the cows and kill you.
CAPITALISM
You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.
SURREALISM
You have two giraffes. The government requires you to take harmonica lessons.

-t

[turtle777]

I think Obama fits the description of BUREAUCRACY.

-t

[Dork.]

I think the problem is that since Obama didn't have a long record in politics to run on, he ran on things like Hope and Change. And many folks projected either their hopes or their fears (depending on what side of the aisle he or she roots for) directly onto him. So the Obama that actually got elected is not the same guy who some folks voted for (or against). Those folks were actually voting for Obama the Messiah, or against Obama the Antichrist. Both those folks are disappointed now, since he neither walks on water nor have his devils' horns emerged yet.

I think he's doing a decent job. Then again, the guy I voted for was a pragmatist, who articulates clear goals but is willing to adjust them to reality. (A far cry from our last President, who charged off toward faith-based goals and then expected reality to follow him.) In fact, his main problem may be articulating his goals a little too clearly -- like signing an order to shut down Gitmo by January. Is Gitmo going to be shut down by January? Probably not, but I believe it will be shut down. Since he made such a public deadline, is it really a failure if Gitmo closes down in April or June of 2010? I'm betting that there is nobody out there who wants Gitmo closed who won't be happy if it comes late.

I think it's way too early to judge his presidency. We still need to see if the economy improves, if Health Care reform passes (and is actually effective!), and if he can manage our interactions with Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran effectively. I know that our 24-hour pundit addiction requires us to give final grades to everything he does 10 minutes after he does it. If you're tired of it, I suggest you stop listening to the talking heads, turn off the TV, and just chill for a while....

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

I think it's way too early to judge his presidency. We still need to see if the economy improves, if Health Care reform passes (and is actually effective!), and if he can manage our interactions with Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran effectively. I know that our 24-hour pundit addiction requires us to give final grades to everything he does 10 minutes after he does it. If you're tired of it, I suggest you stop listening to the talking heads, turn off the TV, and just chill for a while....

Stop being reasonable! Don't you know where you're posting?

[besson3c]

I realize that it is still early to be putting the final touches on a report card, I guess I'm just frustrated with how slowly everything seems to move in politics, and how bogged down things get with silliness such as motions to get Joe Wilson to apologize to Congress and crap like that.

[besson3c]

Is now a good time to tell the Republicans in here that we "told you so" as far as how bad Bush's ideas were? I mean, Bush could have certainly started working on many of these very issues I have listed above.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Is now a good time to tell the Republicans in here that we "told you so" as far as how bad Bush's ideas were? I mean, Bush could have certainly started working on many of these very issues I have listed above.

I think it's pretty hilarious how Obama blames Bush (rightfully) for the fu*ked up economic decisions, and then goes down the same path with twice the speed, adding more idiocy on the way.

-t

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by AKcrab 

Stop being reasonable! Don't you know where you're posting?

You're right, I haven't been here in a while and I forgot. I need to get with the program.



Is this better?

[ironknee]

i've asked this many times and never got an answer.

when the economy was about to tank last september, bush acted with the 700 billion bailout. why?

forget how we got there, when the sh1t hit the fan, bush did a "liberal" thing, right? why? wasn't there a "conservative" option? you know free market..

"I'm a strong believer in free enterprise, so my natural instinct is to oppose government intervention," he said. But "these are not normal circumstances. The market is not functioning properly. There has been a widespread loss of confidence.

"Without immediate action by Congress, America can slip into a major panic." --Bush

what would you have done or wanted to have happen?

[besson3c]

ironknee: if that is directed at me, my problem is not so much the bailout, but not having reforms waiting in the wings to prevent this sort of thing from happening again. It's almost like we are supposed to forget that all of this happened? How do we address the root cause?

I think the problem is the forces that want to keep things the way it is are just way too powerful and have strong connections to both parties.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

i've asked this many times and never got an answer.

when the economy was about to tank last september, bush acted with the 700 billion bailout. why?

forget how we got there, when the sh1t hit the fan, bush did a "liberal" thing, right? why? wasn't there a "conservative" option? you know free market..

There is a common misconception: that Bush and his administration had a clue about the economy.

They were almost as bad as Obama, and screwed this country up more than once. At the core of our issues is the low interest policy that the Fed has been perpetuating since the Dotcom bubble burst.
Bush tried to avoid the necessary correction (a.k.a. recession), but inadvertently created the next, even bigger bubble: housing.

Now Obama is doing the same crap: trying to "fix" the economy and avoid the bad (necessary) correction by creating more cheap money. Awesome.

-t

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

ironknee: if that is directed at me, my problem is not so much the bailout, but not having reforms waiting in the wings to prevent this sort of thing from happening again. It's almost like we are supposed to forget that all of this happened? How do we address the root cause?

I think the problem is the forces that want to keep things the way it is are just way too powerful and have strong connections to both parties.

no dear beeson i was just asking the forum...but u make some good points

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

There is a common misconception: that Bush and his administration had a clue about the economy.

They were almost as bad as Obama, and screwed this country up more than once. At the core of our issues is the low interest policy that the Fed has been perpetuating since the Dotcom bubble burst.
Bush tried to avoid the necessary correction (a.k.a. recession), but inadvertently created the next, even bigger bubble: housing.

Now Obama is doing the same crap: trying to "fix" the economy and avoid the bad (necessary) correction by creating more cheap money. Awesome.

-t

turtle, it's all terrible, agreed

bush was/is a free market guy, right?

my question is what would a free market/small government point of view do on september 2008 instead of what bush did and obama continued?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

bush was/is a free market guy, right?

No, not by his actions. He said he was, but that's worth nothing.

Same as Obama, who says he is a free market guys.

-t

[ironknee]

^^ turtle ok...so what would be a "conservative" plus free market action should have been back then?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

^^ turtle ok...so what would be a "conservative" plus free market action should have been back then?

I'll let the expert speak.

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...ff-for-senate/

Listen to the two videos of Peter Schiff. Not only did he predict was was gonna happen more than two years ago, but he also tells what should have been done.

-t

[besson3c]

*restrains himself from making some sort of joke about gay people*

[Big Mac]

So I've gathered from this thread that besson is upset because Obama hasn't fully delivered on his leftist agenda, despite the fact he isn't even a year in yet. Wow. He's got three more years to fully wreck this country at least.

besson, are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?

[besson3c]

That depends. Have you ever killed any kittens?

[Big Mac]

Nope.

[besson3c]

Then no, I'm not a commie.

I don't understand the point of your original question, but I had fun answering it anyway, thanks!

[Big Mac]

My question was based on the premise that anyone annoyed by the fact that Obama has failed to carry out his leftist agenda must in fact be a communist. And I hate communism.

[besson3c]

Am I the only one feeling a little dizzy here?

Wait, is this one of those transitive property sort of things?

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Nope.

Are you white? (meaning, racist)

[Uncle Skeleton]

I'm getting really sick of hearing about drag racing, and about cars in general. What to do... what to do.....

I think I'll go to a drag racing forum and start a thread about it, and needle everyone who responds with incessant questions!

[Shaddim]

It started like this:


and now people are starting to understand that it's really this:


You guys are starting to see that Obama is just as crappy as any other politician in America? I'm just shocked, I tell you. Personally, I'm not disappointed, he's what I expected.

[BadKosh]

Where was ANY of the congressional oversite for the financial institutions? The Dem committee leaders ware all claiming no problems. Thanks Barney!

[olePigeon]

I voted to get the first black man or first woman in office. I had no illusions of his policies being any better or worse than any other President; the office and Senate are still run by briber- I mean lobbyists.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Lefty Lefterson

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I voted to get the first black man or first woman in office. I had no illusions of his policies being any better or worse than any other President; the office and Senate are still run by briber- I mean lobbyists.

You voted for Alan Keyes on 1996 and 2000?

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

You voted for Alan Keyes on 1996 and 2000?

I wasn't 18 in 1996, and Keyes didn't win the Republcian nomination in 2000. Otherwise, yes, I would have voted for him. I'm registered as Independent so I couldn't vote for him in the Primary.

[ironknee]

obama is like apple in 1981

wait follow me...

when the ibm pc came out in 81, the apple guys bought one and found that it was crap... they were so sure that when people compared the pc with an apple II, they will see how awesome the apple II was.

obama is not being bold enough...he's thinking we are the world and we should all come together...peace man.

but the conservative will not (let's be real) agree with him no matter what... chalk it up to idealism maybe but he's got to be more like bush was... forget the other side, let's do it our way...

the pc took over the market because apple trusted the taste of the people would be as high as theirs... they were wrong

obama trusts the optimism that we would all make peace not war with each other... he is wrong

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I'll let the expert speak.

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...ff-for-senate/

Listen to the two videos of Peter Schiff. Not only did he predict was was gonna happen more than two years ago, but he also tells what should have been done.

-t

impressive but i missed what he said should have been done... he did say no bailout(?)

it looked like a lot of his appearances was on cnbc and fox who laughed at him to his face...!

can you tell me what you would have wanted to happen?

btw michael moore also didn't support the bailouts

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

impressive but i missed what he said should have been done... he did say no bailout(?)

No bailouts
No cheap money from the Fed (i.e. low interest rates)
No mingling of the government in the housing market
No mingling of the government in the student loan market
No quantitative easing
No increase of government bureaucracies and spending
No tax hikes

Originally Posted by ironknee 

can you tell me what you would have wanted to happen?

See above.

-t

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

I think I'll go to a drag racing forum and start a thread about it, and needle everyone who responds with incessant questions!

Make sure your introduction to the drag racing forum is a lengthy diatribe about what's wrong with the forum and how it could be better.

Be sure to spend a lot of time complaining about how no one's conversations about drag racing meet with your approval.

"Why can't all of you talk about cars the way I say you should talk about cars? Why, oh, why can't all you sorry people elevate your drag racing debates up to my superb standards? I'm so tired of it. Gee whiz, none of this is helpful..."











...then derail every thread with unfunny jokes.

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

No bailouts
No cheap money from the Fed (i.e. low interest rates)
No mingling of the government in the housing market
No mingling of the government in the student loan market
No quantitative easing
No increase of government bureaucracies and spending
No tax hikes



See above.

-t

has this guy been on cnbc or fox since? and do they still laugh at him?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

has this guy been on cnbc or fox since? and do they still laugh at him?

Yes, he's back on a regular basis. You can see all his appearances on Youtube. Just search for Peter Schiff.

He's mostly still treated with disrespect. They don't like his message.
He's predicting a greater financial collapse if the Fed and Treasury continue with printing money, propping up banks, creating regulation that has worse unintended consequences than positive effects.

-t

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

He's mostly still treated with disrespect. They don't like his message.
He's predicting a greater financial collapse if the Fed and Treasury continue with printing money, propping up banks, creating regulation that has worse unintended consequences than positive effects.

The guy's been dead-on for years. What's most amazing to me, is all he's really saying is common sense. It's just that actual common sense has become uncommon.


Even the above prediction is pretty much a "No freakin' duh" in the old 'real world' where common sense was... common. In today's world, it's a radical position to be laughed at and dismissed by talking heads of the state-run media.

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Yes, he's back on a regular basis. You can see all his appearances on Youtube. Just search for Peter Schiff.

He's mostly still treated with disrespect. They don't like his message.
He's predicting a greater financial collapse if the Fed and Treasury continue with printing money, propping up banks, creating regulation that has worse unintended consequences than positive effects.

-t

that's strange... why would cnbc and fox still disrespect him?

[el chupacabra]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

but I agreed with them in principle under the condition that we make aggressive changes to help prevent the banking collapse from happening again.

society wouldn't have collapsed if the banks went under. Thats just what the banks wanted you to believe.
The government couldve prevented a black Monday simply by insuring people a little better and it would have cost much less. The bailout was more a means to preserve bubbles in real estate and wall street's casino games; you know the value of mortgage backed securities etc.

Auto bailout: While the principle of preventing jobs from being lost seemed sound, I'm not sure that the bailout has really helped much. I've yet to hear how the benefactors of these businesses will be changing their auto production, for starters, or what this leads to and what our road map is moving forward. When you just throw money at a problem and don't fix the root causes, this is also a fail.

The government could have just let them file chapter 7 and then purchase the entire company for under a billion.
but they chose the hard expensive way... that favored the banks, investors, and bond holders... all wealthy people. Now we're probably stuck with the same ol gm.

[besson3c]

Many of you will be happy to know that I'm feeling a little more happy and optimistic about this administration. It looks like some sort of health care reform is progressing (although I'm not sure how I feel about the public option trigger thing), Obama is ordering 50% pay cuts to the bank execs, the pot ban was reversed, there is talk of repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell... I'm sure there are a few other things not in my list, but it looks like very slowly **** is starting to get done.

I also feel more comforted knowing that it is less likely that I will be raped by KBR and/or Halliburton now.

[Shaddim]

Hell, everyone knows that you're more likely to get raped by Bill Clinton than you are by anyone in either of those companies.