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turtle777 · Nov 21, 2009, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

So you don't believe it's possible for somebody to be a brilliant painter or guitarist without having their IQ tested first?

Personally, I *NEVER* buy music or paintings w/o checking on the artists IQ first. But that's just me.

-t

chabig · 03:46 PM

One definition of "brilliant" is "exceptionally clever or talented". Obama's delivery is talented, so call his ability brilliant, not the man.

besson3c · Nov 21, 2009, 04:14 PM

Of course, it would be silly to believe that somebody with his educational accomplishments, gift with language, and somehow managing to get elected president would be brilliant!

People who are brilliant are not brilliant at every feasible subject or skill in life, they are brilliant at one or more things that stand out and earn them respect and this label. Einstein was brilliant but he may have sucked at basketball or playing the clarinet, would his sucking at the clarinet make him less than brilliant?

Obama is an elite, if not brilliant political speaker of *this generation* as I made clear from the beginning. I'm not trying to put him above MLK or Reagan or something, that would be a whole other argument.

There is simply *no way in hell* that if Obama was the champion of the right you same guys would be making arguments about him being a lousy speaker because of his cadences and S's.

chabig · Nov 21, 2009, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Of course, it would be silly to believe that somebody with his educational accomplishments, gift with language, and somehow managing to get elected president would be brilliant!

Somehow I don't think you'd say the same thing about George Bush, who was a Yale graduate, an Air Force fighter pilot, an accomplished businessman, and got himself elected president.

SpaceMonkey · Nov 21, 2009, 06:20 PM

I can't believe this hasn't been used in the thread yet.

besson3c · Nov 21, 2009, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by chabig

Somehow I don't think you'd say the same thing about George Bush, who was a Yale graduate, an Air Force fighter pilot, an accomplished businessman, and got himself elected president.

Sure I could. I don't think George Bush was a dummy at all, I just think that public speaking wasn't one of his strong suits. I also think a few other things weren't his strong suits, but these things in no way make me think of the guy as a moron. Perhaps intellectually lazy at times, but not stupid.

BadKosh · Nov 21, 2009, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

How dumb do you think we are to think that vocal mannerisms are enough to evaluate what is an extremely difficult and challenging task for anybody, Republican or Democrat, as a "B- at best" and think that this is all there is to this assessment? From you of all people? Mr. 0bama?

At least more objective than you. You can't see the forest for the trees. The content of his speeches does not make him brilliant, but the delivery. The execution of those speeches without a teleprompter says much about his actual skill. Orson Welles, Paul Frees and others were far better at speaking and holding your attention. Perhaps if you had some background in communication, or worked in radio or TV, or in the entertainment industry you might be able to understand more of what brilliant really is.

besson3c · Nov 21, 2009, 07:29 PM

Was Orson Welles a political speaker of my generation?

Chuckit · Nov 21, 2009, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by chabig

One definition of "brilliant" is "exceptionally clever or talented". Obama's delivery is talented, so call his ability brilliant, not the man.

Do you not speak English natively? I can't imagine somebody ever using such a sentence. An ability cannot be talented. The ability is the talent, and the one who has the ability is said to be talented. (The word "brilliant" can be applied to either the talent or the person, though. A brilliant musician will give a brilliant performance.)

OldManMac · Nov 21, 2009, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by chabig

Somehow I don't think you'd say the same thing about George Bush, who was a Yale graduate, an Air Force fighter pilot, an accomplished businessman, and got himself elected president.

He got into Yale on connections, he was far from an honor student, he did all he could to keep from flying, he was the farthest thing from an accomplished businessman (having had his daddy and friends help him out, as favors to dad), and he got himself barely elected (and questionably at that) because of his connections and his daddy's connections.

BadKosh · Nov 22, 2009, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Was Orson Welles a political speaker of my generation?

No, but he was a brilliant speaker. Perhaps you might stretch the impact of his War of the Worlds radio program which illustrated the subliminal powers of radio and it's effect on the populace. In that sense, it might be seen as political.

Are you now going to change the discussion to just political speakers in an attempt to get in your obligatory Obama worship for the week?

besson3c · Nov 22, 2009, 12:06 PM

It was always about political speakers BadK0sh...

As far as the worship cheap shot, you can go jump in the lake.

BadKosh · Nov 22, 2009, 03:20 PM

The truth hurts doesn't it? Your multiple threads seem to validate my observation.

besson3c · Nov 22, 2009, 03:26 PM

The "truth" that Orson Welles is a better speaker than Obama?

Sorry, I'm not following you. Not sure I even care to...

P.S. how come it isn't "0rson" Welles?

turtle777 · Nov 22, 2009, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

P.S. how come it isn't "0rson" Welles?

Because he isn't as 0wesome as 0bama.

-t

Macrobat · Nov 23, 2009, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by OldManMac

He got into Yale on connections, he was far from an honor student, he did all he could to keep from flying, he was the farthest thing from an accomplished businessman (having had his daddy and friends help him out, as favors to dad), and he got himself barely elected (and questionably at that) because of his connections and his daddy's connections.

Sorry, but the truth is out now. He also has an MBA from Harvard - no "influence" was exerted to get him that. And you and others can carp about Bush's grades - because they have actually been released and we know what they were - unlike the "brilliant" guy sitting in the Oval Office right now.

You perpetuate the CBS lie about the man's military service - in FACT, several of his fellow pilots have now CONFIRMED that he volunteered 3 times to go to VietNam but was an F-102 pilot - and that plane, although one of the most dangerous to fly at the time - did not fit the mission in Nam at the time.

Jed Babbin on George W. Bush & National Guard on National Review Online

BadKosh · Nov 23, 2009, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

The "truth" that Orson Welles is a better speaker than Obama?

Sorry, I'm not following you. Not sure I even care to...

P.S. how come it isn't "0rson" Welles?

Hollow replies? Are you even old enough to know who Orson Welles was? Pull your lips off Obama's butt and do some research.

Chuckit · Nov 23, 2009, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Hollow replies? Are you even old enough to know who Orson Welles was? Pull your lips off Obama's butt and do some research.

How on earth is Orson Welles relevant? I mean, yeah, he was an extraordinary orator, but it's not like there can be only one and the rest get their heads cut off.

SpaceMonkey · Nov 23, 2009, 01:26 PM

"*Rosebud...* Yes, Rosebud Frozen Peas. Full of country goodness and green pea-ness. Wait, that's terrible. I quit! Just a handful for the road..."

BadKosh · Nov 23, 2009, 01:29 PM

Welles is a better orator than Obama. Simple and straightforward. You had to listen when he talked. he didn't exhibit strange pauses or have problems with an excessive "S" sound when he spoke. I also suggested Paul Frees, who's voice was similar. I don't think Obama is that good to be considered as Brilliant at all. I even suggested Rush Limbaugh is a better speaker, so NO it's more I disagree with Obama being Brilliant, than trying to cut heads off.

besson3c · Nov 23, 2009, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Hollow replies? Are you even old enough to know who Orson Welles was? Pull your lips off Obama's butt and do some research.

WTF is with all of this Orson Welles obsession? The comparison is apples vs. oranges, is this not obvious?

One spoke on a radio show a message that was preconceived and where the visual aspect was irrelevant and dialogue was one way, the other reads from a script at times, answers questions under pressure at other times, deals with content he knows always warrants an extreme amount of calculation, careful presentation, and has profound consequences. You get the idea, right?

Chuckit · Nov 23, 2009, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Welles is a better orator than Obama. Simple and straightforward.

And Steve Wozniak was a better programmer than Linus Torvalds, but that doesn't mean they're not both standouts in their field. Orson Welles is irrelevant. Just because Welles — who died before recent college grads were even born — was better than Obama doesn't mean Obama isn't great in his own right and his own time.

besson3c · Nov 23, 2009, 01:56 PM

It's also completely apples vs. oranges. If we are going to throw in other totally unrelated forms of public speaking we might as drag in famous sportscasters, newscasters, CEOs, religious leaders, etc.

BadKosh · Nov 24, 2009, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

WTF is with all of this Orson Welles obsession? The comparison is apples vs. oranges, is this not obvious?

One spoke on a radio show a message that was preconceived and where the visual aspect was irrelevant and dialogue was one way, the other reads from a script at times, answers questions under pressure at other times, deals with content he knows always warrants an extreme amount of calculation, careful presentation, and has profound consequences. You get the idea, right?

You are displaying your obvious ignorance of history, and the impact Orson Welles had. This is why your comments seem pointless. His War of the Worlds Broadcast caused him and his staff and those at the network level to answer lots of questions from both news reporters and law enforcement officials and government officials. His WotW broadcast highlighted the problems of mass hysteria, and the real power of the media, which in 1938 was radio and movies. Welles was considered a genius in his work in film, radio, and in his public persona. Obama is a flash in the pan.