[OAW]

The latest random ridiculousness out of the mouth of conservative televangelist Pat Robertson in response to the recent earthquake (and subsequent devastation) in Haiti .....

Originally Posted by Pat Robertson

And you know, Kristi, something happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it. They were under the heal of the French. You know, Napoleon the third, or whatever. And they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, we will serve you if you will get us free from the French. True story. And so, the devil said, okay it's a deal.

And they kicked the French out. You know, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free. But ever since they have been cursed by one thing after the other. Desperately poor. That island of Hispaniola is one island. It is cut down the middle on the one side is Haiti the other is the Dominican Republic. Dominican Republic is prosperous, healthy, full of resorts, etc. Haiti is in desperate poverty. Same island. They need to have and we need to pray for them a great turning to god and out of this tragedy I'm optimistic something good may come. But right now we are helping the suffering people and the suffering is unimaginable.

Robertson's "true story": Haiti "swore a pact to the devil" to get "free from the French" and "ever since, they have been cursed" | Media Matters for America

The fact that this guy has a following as large as he does is at the same time utterly amazing yet definitely unsurprising.

OAW

[SpaceMonkey]

You could say the same thing about Canada as compared to the United States.

[turtle777]

Well, he seems to have an ardent following - in you !

-t

[LegendaryPinkOx]

Haiti should totally sue that guy.

[The Final Dakar]

I love the "True Story" part. Uh, what's you're source, Pat?

[sek929]

Why, Jesus...of course.

[Chongo]

true or not, here is a little background info
Dutty Boukman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dutty Boukman was a houngan, or vodoun priest whose death was considered a catalyst to the slave uprising that marked the beginning of the Haïtian Revolution.[1]

Background

Boukman was born in Jamaica, and later sold by his British master to a French plantation owner, who put him to work as a commandeur (slave driver) and, later, a coach driver. His French name came from his English nickname, "Book Man," which he earned due to his ability to read.

Ceremony at the Bois Caïman

On 22 August 1791, Boukman presided in the role of houngan (priest) together with an African-born priestess and conducted a ceremony at the Bois Caïman and prophesied that the slaves Jean François, Biassou, and Jeannot would be leaders of a slave revolt that would free the slaves of Saint-Domingue. A pig, which symbolized the wild, free, and untamable spiritual power of the forest and the ancestors, was sacrificed, an oath was taken, and Boukman and the priestess exhorted the listeners to fight bravely against their oppressors. Days later the Haitian Revolution began.[2] Boukman was not the first to attempt a slave uprising in Saint-Domingue, as he was preceded by others, such as Padrejean in 1676, and François Mackandal in 1757. However, his large size, warrior-like appearance, and fearsome temper made him an effective leader and helped spark the Haitian Revolution.[3]

Death and legacy

Soon after the uprising began, French authorities captured Boukman and executed him by beheading. The French then publicly displayed Boukman's head in an attempt to dispel the aura of invincibility that Boukman had cultivated. However it remained strong, and their attempt failed.

Haitians honored Boukman by admitting him into the pantheon of loa (Vodou spirits).[4]

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

true or not, here is a little background info
Dutty Boukman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And what exactly does any of this have to do with "the devil"? Interesting how the terms "devil", "Satan", "Lucifer", etc. appear nowhere in the article.

OAW

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

true or not

You think there's a chance it's true?

[Chongo]

Just providing some background info.
There are those that equate Voodoo with the Devil/Satan/Lucifer.

[The Final Dakar]

...are you one of them?

[Atheist]

On a positive note... he didn't blame us homosexshuls…

(I'm about 250 miles from the epicenter… we didn't feel much of anything on this side of the island.)

[The Final Dakar]

I thought it was commonly known the Devil was a homosexual. So you were implied.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I thought it was commonly known the Devil was a homosexual. So you were implied.

Gee thanks….. and here I was just starting to feel good about myself.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Just providing some background info.
There are those that equate Voodoo with the Devil/Satan/Lucifer.

And such people are woefully ignorant. But be that as it may, it's still a fundamentally illogical statement for Pat Robertson to make. Haitian slaves fighting for their freedom who were practicing their traditional African religion are associated with the "devil" .... but the French "Christian" slave masters are associated with "God".

OAW

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Gee thanks….. and here I was just starting to feel good about myself.

Don't worry about it, the Devil isn't real, and by extension homosexuals as well.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

On a positive note... he didn't blame us homosexshuls…

Well he blamed you guys for 9/11. Along with the abortion supporters. I suppose he's just "spreading the love" around.

Originally Posted by Atheist 

(I'm about 250 miles from the epicenter… we didn't feel much of anything on this side of the island.)

Glad to hear you and yours are ok.

OAW

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by OAW 

Glad to hear you and yours are ok.

OAW

Thanks… we've got a lot of Haitians here on the east coast, many waiting desperately to get any information they can on their friends and families back home.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Don't worry about it, the Devil isn't real, and by extension homosexuals as well.

Your logic is impeccable as always

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Your logic is impeccable as always

Thanks. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to running the banks and car companies.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

On a positive note... he didn't blame us homosexshuls…

(I'm about 250 miles from the epicenter… we didn't feel much of anything on this side of the island.)

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I thought it was commonly known the Devil was a homosexual. So you were implied.

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Gee thanks….. and here I was just starting to feel good about myself.

<Pat Roberston mode>
Sorry, you must be delusional. A sense of positive self-worth is incompatible with the contemptible sin of homosexshualtee. You MUST be self-loathing or else all my stereotypes about you will be wrong. And Lord knows, I am never wrong.
</Pat Roberston mode>

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Just providing some background info.
There are those that equate Voodoo with the Devil/Satan/Lucifer.

Do you equate 'Voodoo with the Devil/Satan/Lucifer"?

[turtle777]

Did he just say Jehova ?

-t

[smacintush]

Robertson is just scared that he may not be Satan's favorite anymore.

[spacefreak]

If that's Robertson's view, then so be it. He's not an elected official, and I don't think I've heard of him seeking office in the near future, so what's the problem?

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by spacefreak 

If that's Robertson's view, then so be it. He's not an elected official, and I don't think I've heard of him seeking office in the near future, so what's the problem?

You don't find it interesting when people respect and listen to people that are morally and intellectually bankrupt?

[OldManMac]

The best spin on the issue yet.

Pat Robertson: Haiti?! I Thought They Said "Hades" - Borowitz Report

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

You don't find it interesting when people respect and listen to people that are morally and intellectually bankrupt?

I don't think he's morally or intellectually bankrupt at all. He's getting wobbly with his age, and he sees religious context in events where I don't. But whatever. He doesn't hurt anyone, and I'd be willing to bet he is more generous with his money than most. He contributes to his community, and they seem to like the man. So I choose to him them be. If he runs for President, then I'll likely choose sides. But as of now, there's never been a need.

Anyone know what Art Bell said about Haiti?

EDIT: I do think it's interesting to hear what others believe, but mostly just for awareness' sake.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

The best spin on the issue yet.

Pat Robertson: Haiti?! I Thought They Said "Hades" - Borowitz Report

hahah...that honestly made me laugh.

He's just an old fart that happens to have extreme views. No big deal. Not thread worthy anyways.



@ the OP. Why the conservative label? By that standard all PETA nutjobs should be labeled as "liberal" and green peace as "moderate progressives."

[ghporter]

Pat is going to a Special Hell. Just not fast enough.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by spacefreak 

If that's Robertson's view, then so be it. He's not an elected official, and I don't think I've heard of him seeking office in the near future, so what's the problem?

The problem is that people like him perpetuate ignorance and he deserves to be called out and smacked down for it. There is neither an advantage, nor an obligation to to respect someone who perpetuates ignorance and intolerance in the name of superstitious beliefs.

As far as I'm concerned the fewer people like him in the world, the better off we will all be.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by spacefreak 

I don't think he's morally or intellectually bankrupt at all. He's getting wobbly with his age, and he sees religious context in events where I don't. But whatever. He doesn't hurt anyone

If some of his Christian followers were to abandon plans of volunteering money, time, or effort to help Haiti's victims because of their "pact with the devil", I'd say he is very much hurting anyone.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

@ the OP. Why the conservative label?

Ummmm .... because he is a conservative? And a pretty prominent one at that.

OAW

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

The best spin on the issue yet.

Pat Robertson: Haiti?! I Thought They Said "Hades" - Borowitz Report

Hades has a pact with the Devil ?

Other breaking news: grass is indeed green.

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Pat is going to a Special Hades.

Fixinated.

-t

[ort888]

I just realized that Rob Patterson is like a bizarro version of Pat Robertson's name. Coincidence? I think not.

This means something.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Pat is going to a Special Hell.

The one for child molesters and people who talk at the theater?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by spacefreak 

I don't think he's morally or intellectually bankrupt at all. He's getting wobbly with his age, and he sees religious context in events where I don't. But whatever. He doesn't hurt anyone, and I'd be willing to bet he is more generous with his money than most. He contributes to his community, and they seem to like the man. So I choose to him them be. If he runs for President, then I'll likely choose sides. But as of now, there's never been a need.

Anyone know what Art Bell said about Haiti?

EDIT: I do think it's interesting to hear what others believe, but mostly just for awareness' sake.

If being completely callous to the sudden deaths of hundreds of thousands of people isn't moral bankruptcy, what is? Kissing a dude?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

The one for child molesters and people who talk at the theater?

No, a special-er one. One for guys like Robertson that think it's ok for other people to get squished like bugs because guys like Robertson don't know one whit about Haiti, nor what people there are really like. This special-er hell will make the child molester hell look like Sea World on a spring day. I hope.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Robertson definitely suffers from foot-in-mouth syndrome.

Earth to Pat: Haiti's population is predominantly Christian (80% Roman Catholic, 16% Protestant). So basically, if any of this is brought on by God (in Robertson's mindset that is) then he believes that a Christian God puts more stock in some age old 'Voodoo curse' than looking after his own followers.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

If being completely callous to the sudden deaths of hundreds of thousands of people isn't moral bankruptcy, what is?

I don't think it's much different than what Danny Glover said...

.

“When we see what we did at the climate summit in Copenhagen, this is the response, this is what happens, you know what I’m sayin’?”

.

If Robertson or Glover were running for office to become a senator or president, or a representative of mine, then I will be more concerned. But not now, not these statements.

Personally, I think there a bit more to Pat Robertson's story. Haiti as a nation has a long history of making horrendous decisions that have led to their poverty. It's like New Orleans (Pre-Katrina). That's why people don't want Democrats and liberalism ruling their lives, because after a while, these places become complete sh-tholes. Look at cities like Detroit and Camden. Decades of Democrat rule, and the result is the complete opposite of the society I'd want as my backyard.

To Robertson and many others, liberalism, socialism and the strong-armed thuggery used to force these policies on populations... these are satanic, because they ultimately screw everybody. Had Haiti been a prosperous nation, they'd be so much better prepared to deal with their disaster. But the truth of the matter is, the place barely functioned at all. Many, many more people have died or will die as a result.

[RobOnTheCape]

[QUOTE=spacefreak;3925838]I don't think he's morally or intellectually bankrupt at all. He's getting wobbly with his age, and he sees religious context in events where I don't. But whatever. He doesn't hurt anyone, and I'd be willing to bet he is more generous with his money than most. He contributes to his community, and they seem to like the man. So I choose to him them be. If he runs for President, then I'll likely choose sides. But as of now, there's never been a need.

Generous with his money? It is not his money. It's money from many thousands of people who in many cases likely can't afford their tithings. Further, much of the money he does have seems to be quite ill gotten.

It will be interesting when this report is eventually released: One of Pat Robertson's Latest Frauds



Not quite the pillar of righteousness we should all look forward to watching and hearing on that inspirational show of his.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Robertson definitely suffers from foot-in-mouth syndrome.

Indeed.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Earth to Pat: Haiti's population is predominantly Christian (80% Roman Catholic, 16% Protestant). So basically, if any of this is brought on by God (in Robertson's mindset that is) then he believes that a Christian God puts more stock in some age old 'Voodoo curse' than looking after his own followers.

There's an old saying about Haiti. It's often described as "80% Catholic, 20% Protestant, and 100% Vodou". This reflects the reality of religion, slavery, and history in the Caribbean. In the US, the Africans who were brought here and enslaved were strictly forbidden from expressing their cultural heritage. They were stripped of their names, their religion, their culture and their God. Couldn't even play the drums anymore after the slavemasters realized that they weren't just for music and were being used to communicate across plantations and organize slave revolts. In the rest of the New World, however, these restrictions were not as pervasive. So while slaves in the Caribbean, Central, and South America were forced to convert to Christianity like their US counterparts ... they still managed to continue their existing West African religious practices by merging their existing beliefs and disguising them under the veneer of Christianity. This was very prevalent in those countries where Roman Catholicism was the dominant Christian sect because its veneration of "saints" in addition to worship of a Supreme God blended well with traditional West African religious practice where various "deities" were subordinate to and manifestations of a single Supreme God. This might also explain why this phenomenon is very limited in the US except in those regions (e.g. New Orleans) that were a) closer to the Caribbean and b) very Roman Catholic. In any event, what resulted was a number of syncretic religions where Catholic saints became stand-ins for traditional African deities. New religions that were an amalgamation of traditional beliefs and the Christianity that they were forced to adopt with the whip.

This phenomenon is manifested as Vodou in Haiti. Santeria in Cuba, Candomble in Brazil, etc. What it is NOT is "devil worship" or "Satanism". The only people who believe that nonsense are religious bigots like Pat Robertson who view anything non-Christian as such or those who've bought into similar erroneous notions promoted by Hollywood movies.

OAW

[amazing]

You have to put Robertson's incredibly dumb dingbat utterance in the context of all the other dumb things he's said:

The Haitian Curse - Top 10 Pat Robertson Gaffes - TIME

Every nation has its crazies--but we do seem to have more than our fair share...

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by OAW 

Ummmm .... because he is a conservative? And a pretty prominent one at that.

OAW

And this is relevant to the crisis and his comments about it how?

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

And this is relevant to the crisis and his comments about it how?

Oh I don't know. About as much as him being a "televangelist" is. Pat Robertson self-identifies as a "conservative" and as a "televangelist". Funny how you only seem to take issue with me referencing the one thing that he refers to himself as but not the other.

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[Orion27]

Originally Posted by OAW 

Oh I don't know. About as much as him being a "televangelist" is. Pat Robertson self-identifies as a "conservative" and as a "televangelist". Funny how you only seem to take issue with me referencing the one thing that he refers to himself as but not the other.

OAW

I don't think you realize how irrelevant Pat Robertson is. You take an extreme example of evangelism and try to elevate him as someone who is almost mainstream. I think you need to pick on someone your own size.

[The Final Dakar]

I don't think he's irrelevant, but if you'd like to claim the Left overrates his influence, I'd probably agree.

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I don't think he's irrelevant, but if you'd like to claim the Left overrates his influence, I'd probably agree.

Irrelevant to the national conversation. He can raise money, has probably done more "good works"
than most of his critics but Robertson's time has passed. Take him literally if you must, paint with the broad brush but really, contemporary thinking? Not!

[OAW]

I hear what you are saying. But it's not just me. Pat Robertson's comments are all over the national news because he is such a high-profile figure. While his political stature is not what it once was (like when he was a presidential candidate) ... to call him "irrelevant" is IMO "minimizing" him waaaaaaay more than I'm "elevating" him.

OAW