Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Guns, Guns, Guns!

Guns, Guns, Guns! (Page 2)
Thread Tools
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 2, 2010, 11:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by smacintush View Post
Most people don't see the possibility of the threat of real tyranny in America. I know I don't, not right now. This is why these debates always become about personal protection, hunting and sport. Tyranny, in the average Americans mind, is unthinkable and even if it were possible, there is NO way a few guns could stand up to the full force of the American army. This is the thinking anyway.

I think that this kind of thinking is dangerous. It is when we are complacent that we are at our most vulnerable. Maybe not this decade, or this lifetime, but eventually. As society lets go of the fear of tyranny and warms to the idea of bigger and more intrusive government, we become vulnerable. Like the man walking in a bad neighborhood dressed in expensive clothes, laughing and talking on a cell phone. But that's silly. Free people just don't vote themselves into oppression do they?

Wake me up when we no longer vote for our leaders or the Constitution is considered null and void.

There are *many* checks and balances in this country. To be afraid of them all collapsing simultaneously is downright paranoid.
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 3, 2010, 12:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
There are *many* checks and balances in this country. To be afraid of them all collapsing simultaneously is downright paranoid.
As dangerous as thinking that the government and politicians always mean best and will surely not allow anything adverse to happen to this country ?

[/dreaming]

-t
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 3, 2010, 01:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
As dangerous as thinking that the government and politicians always mean best and will surely not allow anything adverse to happen to this country ?

[/dreaming]

-t

Are you trying to infer that I think this, that it has to be one extreme or another?
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Across from the wallpaper store.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 3, 2010, 04:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy View Post
Just a point of contention, a society that "lets go of the fear of tyranny" will NOT automatically "warm to the idea of bigger and more intrusive government". Being fearful of tyranny does not mean one is in favor of small government just as not fearing tyranny makes one a fan of big government. It is quite possible to not fear tyranny and be in favor of small government or to fear tyranny and be in favor of big government.
I didn't mean to imply that they are automatically connected.
"Altruism is killing America. We who want to save America must repudiate this killer, root and branch. We must understand and explain to others that the acceptance of altruism necessitates the violation of individual rights... and that the arguments for altruism are baseless..."
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Across from the wallpaper store.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 3, 2010, 04:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Wake me up when we no longer vote for our leaders or the Constitution is considered null and void.
Like I sarcastically referred to…people installing totalitarian rule by means of a democratic vote HAS happened before.

There are *many* checks and balances in this country. To be afraid of them all collapsing simultaneously is downright paranoid.
Who says simultaneously? Our government is evolving, slowly and I don't think it is paranoid at all. It is paranoid to worry that Barack Obama is coming for us. it isn't paranoid at all to envision the eventual progression toward a day where we have become so complacent and our government so corrupt and dysfunctional that an opportunistic, paranoid, megalomaniac gets elected and turns this country on its head. All it takes is the right people at the right time.

Better safe than sorry?

Anyone?

Hello?
"Altruism is killing America. We who want to save America must repudiate this killer, root and branch. We must understand and explain to others that the acceptance of altruism necessitates the violation of individual rights... and that the arguments for altruism are baseless..."
     
OAW
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
Mar 3, 2010, 12:51 PM
 
I suppose I have a pretty moderate position when it comes to gun rights. I think any adult citizen has the right to own a firearm. Unless that right has been rescinded due to certain felony convictions (i.e. gun related crimes) or mental impairment. I disagree with across the board rescinding of a citizen's gun rights due to any felony conviction. For instance, why should someone convicted of embezzlement be restricted from owning a firearm to protect his family once he has done his time? I also don't think firearms need to be registered. It doesn't make much sense to me. A criminal isn't going to register his gun, and the only thing it does for a law-abiding citizen is let the government know what he has. Registering a firearm does absolutely nothing from a public safety standpoint. In my view, the sale of firearms should certainly be regulated ... but that regulation should be centered around A) What types of firearms can be sold to the public, B) Waiting Periods, C) Firearm Training, and D) Determination if the purchaser's gun possession rights have been rescinded. With respect to those categories ...

A. - I don't see any reason why the government can't restrict fully automatic machine guns or rocket launchers or grenades from being sold to the general public. At the same time, I see no reason why handguns, shotguns, and rifles should be restricted.

B. - I don't think it's unreasonable to mandate a waiting period of a few days to a week to purchase a firearm. This can go a long way towards preventing a crime by someone who may be seeking a firearm "in the heat of passion".

C. - I don't think it's unreasonable to have to take a simple training course on firearm safety, operation, and maintenance. I don't think you need to do it for every single purchase however.

D. - I don't think it's unreasonable to mandate a background check at the time of purchase to ensure that the purchaser hasn't had his/her gun possession rights rescinded. For gun store sales or individual sales. If the answer is "No", then the person should be able to purchase the firearm with respect to A, B, and C above.

I don't think citizens should have to maintain some piece of "registration paper" to prove they have the right to own a firearm. If a citizen encounters law enforcement they can certainly check to see if s/he has had his gun rights rescinded. If so, s/he is gets arrested for illegal firearm possession. If not, then keep it moving. I believe a citizen should have a right to keep a firearm in their home, place of business (i.e. the owner of stores, shops, gas stations, bars, etc. ... NOT the general workplace), or their vehicle. I generally disagree with "conceal & carry" (unless you are licensed, professional security). Carrying a firearm when you are out hunting or camping is fine. Inside urban areas ... not so much. Finally, I don't think firearm regulation should be at the state or local level. It's pretty silly to be "registered" in one state but if you move to another state you can be arrested if you fail to re-register. You should be able to have a firearm in your vehicle for a cross country trip and not have to worry about being arrested for crossing state lines with it.

So I'm not some rabid NRA type opposed to any firearm regulation whatsoever, but at the same time I'm not in the "ban all handguns" camp either.

OAW
     
 
Thread Tools
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:38 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2014 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2