[Doofy]

So, apparently Barry's just signed the HIRE Act - H.R. 2847.

Here's the highlights:

- Imposes a 30% withholding tax on many types of U.S-source income and gross sales proceeds to foreign financial institutions (FFIs).

- Imposes a separate 30% withholding tax on payments made from the United States to certain non-financial foreign entities.

Slim people: You have until 1/1/2013 to pull all your money out of Amerika. South America's nice this decade.

[Laminar]

What...and give up all of our freedoms?

[Doofy]

I said "slim people", not you fatties.

[SpaceMonkey]

Context: the above provisions are part of the "offset," that is, the attempt to pay for the provisions of the law that are meant to encourage more job creation. These are taxes that were meant to be enforced even prior to this law, but the law closes several loopholes that were developed around new financial instruments.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I said "slim people", not you fatties.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

the law closes several loopholes that were developed around new financial instruments.

And also says to foreigners: Pull your money out of the US unless you like having the IRS messing around in your panties in an unpleasant manner. Which leads to less inward investment and thus less job creation. Kind of the opposite of what they're trying to achieve with the Act, no? Stupid politicians.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

And also says to foreigners: Pull your money out of the US unless you like having the IRS messing around in your panties in an unpleasant manner. Which leads to less inward investment and thus less job creation. Kind of the opposite of what they're trying to achieve with the Act, no? Stupid politicians.

I think you are reading it wrong. It is meant to curb efforts by American individuals/companies to avoid paying U.S. taxes by hiding their income in offshore accounts, not address foreign investments in the United States. There are various verification measures in the Act addressing the need to determine that the foreign financial accounts in question are "United States accounts."

[The Final Dakar]

Hey, hey, hey! Emoticon every other post, jerkface!

[Laminar]

Like this?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

I think you are reading it wrong. It is meant to curb efforts by American individuals/companies to avoid paying U.S. taxes by hiding their income in offshore accounts, not address foreign investments in the United States. There are various verification measures in the Act addressing the need to determine that the foreign financial accounts in question are "United States accounts."

Obviously it's CFC legislation, but it also means that foreigners who don't wish to attract that 30% withholding tax need to show their panties to the IRS (so the IRS can make sure that no Amerikans have a stake in the company/shell). The big money doesn't like to declare controlling interests to anybody (hence Panama being quite popular for shells), least not the IRS, so I can't see them continuing to invest in the US.

[SpaceMonkey]

Kind of absurd reasoning. The private sector is not any less suspicious of ultra-secretive "big money" than the U.S. government is.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

Kind of absurd reasoning.

If you like.

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

The private sector is not any less suspicious of ultra-secretive "big money" than the U.S. government is.

Aside from all the countries providing trusts and shells in which you don't have to declare anything to anybody, you mean? I take it they've wiped bearer shares out of existence over there then?

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

If you like.

Aside from all the countries providing trusts and shells in which you don't have to declare anything to anybody, you mean? I take it they've wiped bearer shares out of existence over there then?

As you have yourself argued repeatedly, the United States is already far from the most effective location for "big money" to hide to avoid taxes. So I would have to assume that most foreign investors in the United States have other interests that are subordinate to avoiding taxes and/or regulatory scrutiny.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

As you have yourself argued repeatedly, the United States is already far from the most effective location for "big money" to hide to avoid taxes. So I would have to assume that most foreign investors in the United States have other interests that are subordinate to avoiding taxes and/or regulatory scrutiny.

Yes. However, this legislation makes it easier to stage fishing expeditions (like the one to UBS recently), which will alienate almost everyone.

[SpaceMonkey]

Oh, so it's more nuanced than you originally let on? Thanks.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

Oh, so it's more nuanced than you originally let on?

Isn't everything?

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

That's twice you've cried here today, Lam. Here — here's a kitten for you:

[DrTacoMD]

This thread does not interest me. However, I originally read the title as "Take the monkey and run," which greatly interested me.

Political Lounge, you have disappointed me yet again.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by DrTacoMD 

This thread does not interest me. However, I originally read the title as "Take the monkey and run," which greatly interested me.

Political Lounge, you have disappointed me yet again.

Maybe this will change things?

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

Kind of absurd reasoning. The private sector is not any less suspicious of ultra-secretive "big money" than the U.S. government is.

Except for when they're working in concert of course; engineering winners and losers.

[Doofy]

OK chaps. Just been on to my financial boys. 9 months left to remove all your money from the U(IR)SofA. That includes shares so if you have any AAPL, pull them by the end of the year.

If you're Amerikan and are thinking of getting out, do so. Proceed to the nearest exit quietly and calmly.

9 months chaps. After that you'll be in a lock down, financially speaking.
You've been warned.