[subego]

Let's talk boobs.

Assuming most people aren't quivering in fear over this since no one else started a thread about it, but I don't think we should necessarily let the opportunity bounce right by.

Personally, after having viewed the video 6 or 7 times now, I agree with whoever said it was an "unfortunate" choice. Not just the dress, but the song and Miss Perry herself.

Somewhere, there's a line. There's a point where someone's schtick is too tied into sex and sexuality for them to be an appropriate guest on Sesame Street, and for me, Perry hovers around it.

On the other hand, how can this be even close to the most sexualized thing your child sees? Similarly, I can't be the only one who is far more troubled by the easy access to violence. Maybe some lightening up is in order?

I don't have kids, so maybe someone can set me straight on what I'm missing.

[besson3c]

The subject of this thread is confusing. Did a get it on with a muppet or not?

[ort888]

Sesame Street has a long history of showing off the hawt boobies.


YouTube - Sesame Street - milk crisis

[subego]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

The subject of this thread is confusing. Did a get it on with a muppet or not?

It's more like Elmo got flashed.

[SpaceMonkey]

As one commentary I saw pointed out, Elmo consistently declines to wear pants on the show, so it seems like they ought to rectify that before moving on to their guest stars.

Also...

Assuming most people aren't quivering in fear over this since no one else started a thread about it, but I don't think we should necessarily let the opportunity bounce right by.

...I see what you did there.

[subego]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

...I see what you did there.

Eyes up here, buddy.

[turtle777]

Personally, after having viewed the video 6 or 7 times now, I still can't find the boobs that you were talking about.

-t

[SpaceMonkey]

Do they have that garish animated background on Sesame Street all the time now? Man that is distracting. I miss Mr. Hooper and Bert and Ernie's old married gay couple antics of the old Sesame Street.

[subego]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Sesame Street has a long history of showing off the hawt boobies.


YouTube - Sesame Street - milk crisis

I feel bad for the pussies.

The music is awesome though.

[subego]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

Do they have that garish animated background on Sesame Street all the time now? Man that is distracting. I miss Mr. Hooper and Bert and Ernie's old married gay couple antics of the old Sesame Street.

I stopped watching after Snufflupagus became real.

You just can't have a Big Bird with schizophrenia these days.

Or, something like this:

YouTube - Classic Sesame Street - Roosevelt Franklin Loud & Soft


Edit: oh yeah, I was... umm... totally distracted by that background... couldn't pay attention to anything else... nosiree!

[subego]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Personally, after having viewed the video 6 or 7 times now, I still can't find the boobs that you were talking about.

Put your face closer.

[Chongo]

The outfit in question.

YouTube - Katy Perry sings "Hot N Cold" with Elmo on Sesame Street!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by subego 

Let's talk boobs.

If you insist.

Originally Posted by Chongo 

The outfit in question.

YouTube - Katy Perry sings "Hot N Cold" with Elmo on Sesame Street!

Nice boobs. Shame about the face.


Children have never seen boobs. Ever.
So this is an outrage!

[Face Ache]

Anyone seeing dirt where there is none probably has dirty lenses.


WOMAAAAAAN!

[lpkmckenna]

I see nothing wrong with Katy Perry's clothing. Miss Piggy dressed sluttier than that.

Of course, this is all deliberate media manipulation by Sesame Street. They knew in advance that parental prudes would react negatively, and so did Katy Perry. Both Sesame Street and Perry gained significant media exposure, which was the whole point all along.

[subego]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I see nothing wrong with Katy Perry's clothing. Miss Piggy dressed sluttier than that.

Of course, this is all deliberate media manipulation by Sesame Street. They knew in advance that parental prudes would react negatively, and so did Katy Perry. Both Sesame Street and Perry gained significant media exposure, which was the whole point all along.

Miss Piggy wasn't ever on Sesame Street AFAIK.

That this was a stunt crossed my mind.

[BLAZE_MkIV]

Remember the age range. Those little impressionable minds are to young to even catch sexual innuendo or provacative clothing. They'll see worse at Walmart and the deluge of advertising.

[ghporter]

While sexual innuendo is above most Sesame Street viewers, social issues are not. Including "how do people dress?" We have at least a whole generation of children (probably 2) that have been brought up to think that all females should show maximum skin at all times. So-called "mothers" dress up their little girls like whores because they have either no fashion sense or no clue what message the clothing sends. Sesame Street's producers pay attention to this sort of thing, and they try to avoid encouraging issues like inappropriate dress for children and so on.

[andi*pandi]

If the producers were paying attention, they would have given the wardrobe people a heads up to add an inch or two to the top. That they didn't complain until some parents complained, well...

It's not the worst outfit in the world. It was a cute video. Some parents need to chill out.

Did you see the Perry SNL skit? Now THAT was some over the top tatas.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Did you see the Perry SNL skit? Now THAT was some over the top tatas.

Yeah, that was funny as shit.

3D boobies

-t

[ort888]

Originally Posted by subego 

I stopped watching after Snufflupagus became real.

You just can't have a Big Bird with schizophrenia these days.

Or, something like this:

YouTube - Classic Sesame Street - Roosevelt Franklin Loud & Soft


Edit: oh yeah, I was... umm... totally distracted by that background... couldn't pay attention to anything else... nosiree!

I just started watching Sesame Street with my son and only the Elmo bits have that annoying background. Overall it's still a pretty entertaining and educational show. It's way more watchable than 99% of children's programming.

As for the outfit, yes, it wasn't really appropriate. Not because of kids seeing skin, but it sends a bad message to little girls about how they should dress. I'm not saying it should be censored or banned, or anything... but someone in the wardrobe department should have thought better of it. That said, who cares. It's really not that big of a deal... Why is this a news story?

It's not like they showed this Katy Perry clip...

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Yeah, that was funny as shit.

3D boobies

-t

I enjoyed it too! Shit can be pretty funny...

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by ort888 

It's not like they showed this Katy Perry clip...

[FireWire]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Miss Piggy dressed sluttier than that.

Exactly.. it's not like the Disney princesses never showed any skin under the neck...

[turtle777]

But they are not real.

Oh, wait, neither are most boobs. Nevermind.

-t

[Doofy]

Bagsy the brunette.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by FireWire 

Exactly.. it's not like the Disney princesses never showed any skin under the neck...

An interesting thing about the Disney princesses ... despite the low neck-lines, the early princesses where intentionally drawn without any cleavage. Even in the picture above, Cinderella, Snow White and Aurora don't have any cleavage.

[Laminar]

What about Mike Rowe and the "back door" joke while talking with Oscar?

[besson3c]

Even Archie comics have cleavage:

[brassplayersrock²]

mmmmm…… a red head.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

An interesting thing about the Disney princesses ... despite the low neck-lines, the early princesses where intentionally drawn without any cleavage. Even in the picture above, Cinderella, Snow White and Aurora don't have any cleavage.

I'm sure Snow White used to have much larger boobs than that.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I'm sure Snow White used to have much larger boobs than that.

A little messy childhood memory?

[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I'm sure Snow White used to have much larger boobs than that.

When Did Snow White Get So Dirty?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

A little messy childhood memory?

No, it wasn't messy at all.

Hmmm. Maybe they just looked larger because I was smaller. When you're small, everything looks big.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Hmmm. Maybe they just looked larger because I was smaller. When you're small, everything looks big.

THAT'S WHAT-


uhhh....nvm

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Hmmm. Maybe they just looked larger because I was smaller. When you're small, everything looks big.

Or change of geographic location.

When I was in Germany, everything was small.
Once I moved to the US, everything was bigger. But also more plastic.



-t

[ShortcutToMoncton]

THAT'S WHAT-


uhhh....nvm

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

When Did Snow White Get So Dirty?

That was the most puritanical nonsense I've read in a while.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

That was the most puritanical nonsense I've read in a while.

I'd call it ignorant rather than puritanical, but the conclusions are indeed nonsense. The RAND study the blogger mentions was focused on children and teens outside the Disney target audience. The Reuters story he links to does not provide enough detail on the RAND study for a rational connection to be made between Disney princesses and teen pregnancy-in fact it provides absolutely no connection at all.

The study, published in the November, 2008 issue of the journal Pediatrics, looked at a cohort of children ages 12-17 and followed them for 3 years. It counted up total TV viewing and used a measure of how "sexy" that viewing was (developed for a larger study) to assess the total amount of "sexy television" each study member was exposed to. There is a minor mention of "animated" programming, but the study focuses on programming with "high levels of sexual content" and used programming selected for it's popularity among teens at the time the study was conducted. In short, they probably included South Park, The Simpsons, Futurama, and similar animated programming, while they did not likely include any Disney programming.

The blogger is correct that there is an unacceptable level of teen pregnancy in the country overall, and especially in Texas. In Texas, we have a very poor structure for teaching kids about sexuality-we can thank W and his BOE for that, along with Rick Perry's sticking to that precedent to keep voters polarized. And the low level of actual parenting skills exhibited by modern parents is almost certainly far more to blame than anything kids see on TV. But his connection and implied conclusion of a causative link between Disney animation and teen pregnancy is laughable.

I gotta give him some credit though. His blog entry is really about the history and development of Snow White as a character in the first feature-length animated movie, and he hits all the high spots pretty well. Too bad he used a faulty "hook" to get people to pay attention to him.

[subego]

I'll probably get dog-piled here, but I find most (if not all) the Disney female protagonists to be pretty horrible role-models. Walt was a hard-core chauvinist, and it shows.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I remember Lilo not fitting the mold. Of course, she's not a "princess".

[ghporter]

Yeah, it's kind of hard to evade the "princess in need of saving" problem when you're a princess in need of saving. Even Jasmine wasn't all that independent, nor was Pocahontas. Belle wasn't a "princess," but she was a dame in a jam; she did, however, provide a little strong moral fiber through the story.

But you're right-when it comes down to it, most animated Disney "heroines" were nothing but damsels in distress that needed saving because they couldn't keep themselves out of a jam.

[Laminar]

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I can't look away

[Shaddim]

I'm still not seeing the issue here. Half the world has them and everyone likes playing with them.


yeah, even gay guys.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I'm still not seeing the issue here. Half the world has them and everyone likes playing with them.


yeah, even gay guys.

The issue, as I see it, is that for a long time "mothers" have gone to some pains to sexualize their small daughters. This has had the effect of making "slutty dressing" seem to be appropriate, ignoring the not so subtle message that such clothing sends. I'm not sure whether or not these "mothers" understand that there's a message in what they dress their daughters in. But it's something that helps diminish the innocence level of everyone involved. It makes adults behave differently-adult males are seen as potential predators, whether there is any reason to think that or not, and adult females are recast in light of how the little girl is dressed.

All of society is a costume drama, and wearing the wrong costume casts you as the wrong character, with the expectations and assumptions that go with that wrong character. If Katy was supposed to look like a pixie or a princess, there are much more appropriate costumes for her to wear, costumes that would put less emphasis on skin and more on behavior, which frankly is something Sesame Street has always put more focus on anyway.

For adults, who have the developed cognitive skills to allow them to make informed decisions, skin is fine, and boobies are wonderful things to have around. But children should vaguely remember breasts as something they had access to before they started eating solid food, not something that's the central focus of both sexes and all ages. This is particularly troubling as the age girls are beginning to mature has been falling for several decades, and a 9-year-old with real breasts but no concept of what they mean in personal and societal contexts, doesn't need to have the rest of the world going bonkers all around her about her "boobs."

[andi*pandi]

^nicely said.

Originally Posted by subego 

I'll probably get dog-piled here, but I find most (if not all) the Disney female protagonists to be pretty horrible role-models. Walt was a hard-core chauvinist, and it shows.

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Yeah, it's kind of hard to evade the "princess in need of saving" problem when you're a princess in need of saving. Even Jasmine wasn't all that independent, nor was Pocahontas. Belle wasn't a "princess," but she was a dame in a jam; she did, however, provide a little strong moral fiber through the story.

But you're right-when it comes down to it, most animated Disney "heroines" were nothing but damsels in distress that needed saving because they couldn't keep themselves out of a jam.

To give Walt a little credit, most of the old "princess" movies are based on old fairy tales where the female characters had even less character. They did get adapted in various ways. I think they tried really hard in Beauty and the Beast to also make her brainy. Ariel and Jasmine were fiesty. And Mulan went to war and kicked ass (but yes, still needed some help).

As a feminist, I don't hate the Disneyfied versions of the stories... but I plan to read my daughter lots of other versions too.