[Snow-i]

CNN

With some recent members comparing radical islam to christianity, I'd like to see how the NNers respond to this act of barbarism. The teenage girls were 15 and 16, and witnesses say that the girls were crying and pleading for their lives as they were bound under a tree and shot in cold blood in the name of sharia law.

Is there no outrage for these girls among all of us? Obviously, this does not represent the majority of muslims but does further bolster the problem of radical Islam. Can we, as a civilized people, really continue to stand by as barbarians execute teenage girls in the name of sharia law? Can such a movement continue to be tolerated as a reasonable form of governance?

I wonder what the New York Imam, who favors sharia, would have to say of this? Anyone care to speculate?

[OldManMac]

This is no different than Americans who advocate killing people because they're homosexuals (and sometimes carry those threats out). There are fanatics on all ends of the spectrum; these just happen to be convenient to highlight, because they're Muslims, and they're the target du jour.

[Laminar]

Wait...advocating it is the same as carrying it out?

[imitchellg5]

We, as a "civilised" people can continue to let "barbarians" execute people because we don't give a shit about Africa. I know I'm absolutely generalising to the lowest common denominator, but as a society, it's certainly true.

Also, "sharia" in this sense is completely different than what any imam would believe. The dictionary and orthodox definition of "sharia" is a combination of the Qur'an and hadith. ANY Muslim advocates sharia. And outright killing of people isn't an part of that.

[ghporter]

"Execution" is something that a reasonably recognized authority carries out. The title should be use the word "murdered" instead of "executed." Big bad militants have to resort to shooting teenage girls to get some press. Very impressive.

[hyteckit]

I think you are twisting the story.

It's about a Somali militant group executing 2 girls because they believe they are spying.


How about US hired mercenaries who go to Iraq and kill a bunch of innocent Iraqi civilians?

Should we be angry with the US or the mercenaries?

Blame it on democracy? Blame it on Sharia?

[Wiskedjak]

This title is misleading. It seems to indicate that all Islamic Militants executed these girls.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Wait...advocating it is the same as carrying it out?

Don't fool yourself. There are people in the U. S. who would, and have, done some brutal things, in the name of their religion.

[besson3c]

I just don't understand what the practical take home message is here?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

Don't fool yourself. There are people in the U. S. who would, and have, done some brutal things, in the name of their religion.

Woah now. I don't think you even read my post.

[Big Mac]

Radical Muslims even murder their own. No revelation there.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

Don't fool yourself. There are people in the U. S. who would, and have, done some brutal things, in the name of their religion.

Don't fool yourself. There are people in the U.S. who would, and have, done some brutal things, in the name of their country/politics/environmentalism/football team.
And quite possibly there's also some people in the US who use too much punctuation.

[Doofy]

At best, my perfect plan for islam is to send all its adherents to Saudi and build a big wall around the place. I want it gone, finished.
But this story is a non-starter. It's just a paramilitary group doing what paramilitary groups do.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

This is no different than Americans who advocate killing people because they're homosexuals (and sometimes carry those threats out). There are fanatics on all ends of the spectrum; these just happen to be convenient to highlight, because they're Muslims, and they're the target du jour.

So...then its okay?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

At best, my perfect plan for islam is to send all its adherents to Saudi and build a big wall around the place. I want it gone, finished.
But this story is a non-starter. It's just a paramilitary group doing what paramilitary groups do.

There is nothing more practical than rounding up a third of the world's population, most of which are statistically not violent, and forcing them to go someplace.

Has it ever occurred to you that what you are saying might be extremely offensive to the many peaceful followers of Islam? Would you say this to people in real life?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

So...then its okay?

No, but pointing this out is about as practical as sitting around the remarking about how the Earth is orbiting around the sun. Simply observing that violent acts occur does not provide us with anything actionable that can be put into action, so why go through this pretty pointless exercise?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Has it ever occurred to you that what you are saying might be extremely offensive to the many peaceful followers of Islam?

There are no peaceful followers of islam... In much the same way that there's no peaceful followers of nazism.

The sooner you libs get this in your head, the better.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Would you say this to people in real life?

Yes.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

There are no peaceful followers of islam... In much the same way that there's no peaceful followers of nazism.

Yup, that guy who sits 20ft away from me in my office, the one who brought in candy for everyone yesterday, is clearly just itching to kill some non-believers.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Yup, that guy who sits 20ft away from me in my office, the one who brought in candy for everyone yesterday, is clearly just itching to kill some non-believers.

Convert or kill.
He's currying you up with candy to try the former first.

Is he an actual follower of islam or simply born into it and acquired a legacy tag?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Convert or kill.
He's currying you up with candy to try the former first.

Some of the Christians in the office try harder to convert (with the threat of Convert or Hell) than he does.

Is he an actual follower of islam or simply born into it and acquired a legacy tag?

The turban would indicate that he is an actual follower.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Some of the Christians in the office try harder to convert (with the threat of Convert or Hell) than he does.

So that's settled then - he's going for the kill. Fatten you up with candy so you're too fat to run away then it's off with yer heads.

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

The turban would indicate that he is an actual follower.

I'm not aware of any forms of islam which require a turban.
Are you sure he's not a Sikh?

[Snow-i]

I'm still unclear on the position of oldman and wiskedjak

Is this business as usual? and because you think Christians would do the same...its okay? Or just not newsworthy? Not outrage worthy?

Are you defending their actions, or simply downplaying it to support your political platform?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Convert or kill.
He's currying you up with candy to try the former first.

Is he an actual follower of islam or simply born into it and acquired a legacy tag?

That's exactly the point. If you would stop to think reasonably for a moment it might occur to you that there are a ton of westernized and/or less extreme Islamic believers. Maybe you aren't exposed to them where you are, but there are millions here.

[andi*pandi]

Somalia is a hellhole.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

This is no different than Americans who advocate killing people because they're homosexuals (and sometimes carry those threats out). There are fanatics on all ends of the spectrum; these just happen to be convenient to highlight, because they're Muslims, and they're the target du jour.

Obviously THERE IS A DIFFERENCE between organized barbarity as practiced by the Muslim extremists and the occasional christian nit-wits.

[olePigeon]

This is what happens when you mix religion and politics.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

That's exactly the point. If you would stop to think reasonably for a moment it might occur to you that there are a ton of westernized and/or less extreme Islamic believers. Maybe you aren't exposed to them where you are, but there are millions here.

A strange thing happens as more and more "mild" islamics arrive in a location - they all become more radical. Strength in numbers, etc..

Haven't you noticed the sharia courts popping up in your motherland? Have you not noticed the rise in honour killings?

islam is incompatible with western society and our idea of freedom. Period. The sooner you get that into your genetically deficient brains, the better.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

islam is incompatible with western society and our idea of freedom. Period. The sooner you get that into your genetically deficient brains, the better.

Which is why conservative leadership pushed for a war to rid of the only non-Sharia government in the Persian gulf, just to have it establish a Sharia based government.

Genetically superior conservative Muslims strapping bombs onto mentally deficient women and blowing up school buses full of children would disagree with you, Doofy.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Which is why conservative leadership pushed for a war to rid of the only non-Sharia government in the Persian gulf, just to have it establish a Sharia based government.

Genetically superior conservative Muslims strapping bombs onto mentally deficient women and blowing up school buses full of children would disagree with you, Doofy.

I don't understand what any of that has to do with what I've just said.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I don't understand what any of that has to do with what I've just said.

I would've figured that your genetically superior conservatism would be able to figure it out, so I'll use my asystematic genetically deficient left-of-center brain to explain it to you.

You're arguing against an ideological spectrum that is categorically identical to your own, e.g. it isn't genetically deficient. If liberalism is a genetic deficiency, and your conservative view is not, then neither is the view of the conservative terrorists who use disabled women to bomb civilian targets, and neither is the conservative administration (the administration who's actions you supported) that helped to establish a Sharia based government; a government, by the way, based on the very religion you claim only liberals can't see is a threat because of their genetically deficient brains.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

You're arguing against an ideological spectrum that is categorically identical to your own

islam is anarcho-capitalist?
How queer!

[finboy]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

This is no different than Americans who advocate killing people because they're homosexuals (and sometimes carry those threats out). There are fanatics on all ends of the spectrum; these just happen to be convenient to highlight, because they're Muslims, and they're the target du jour.

Alrighty then.

That's what we're up against folks.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Somalia is a hellhole.

Recently ranked #1 most corrupt country in the world.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

This is what happens when you mix religion and politics.

More accurately, it's what happens in certain theocratic regimes. Not all. And this isn't just a mix of Islam and politics - Islam is inherently political and inherently violent.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

I think you are twisting the story.

It's about a Somali militant group executing 2 girls because they believe they are spying.


How about US hired mercenaries who go to Iraq and kill a bunch of innocent Iraqi civilians?

Should we be angry with the US or the mercenaries?

Blame it on democracy? Blame it on Sharia?

Well... what do you blame?

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by finboy 

Alrighty then.

That's what we're up against folks.

There are real threats (generally the ones that end up in exponentially greater deaths) and perceived threats (perceived as such because there are a great deal of credible threats), but to regard them with the same degree of urgency is just preposterous IMO. You have only to look at the differences in the global, political impact of the Oklahoma City bombing and 9/11 to get an idea of scope. (and that's just here in the US)

Many would cite our actions in the Middle East as having perpetuated violence, but war is an unfortunate byproduct of survival among mankind. If you're not growing, you're dying. All major systems and philosophies of our planet acknowledge this. The world will come to a head of ideals. I'm not suggesting Islam is at the root of this problem because I know it is only the most radical elements among them that have served as catalysts to lost rights well outside their geographical confines. What I do know is that in spite of the imperialist nature of mankind, there are systems that would not support the cold-blooded execution of two teenage girls be they black, white, brown, yellow, gay, or straight. Ours is one such system.

In short, you're right. We're up against it.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Islam is inherently political and inherently violent.

Political yes, violent, no.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Political yes, violent, no.

Oh purlease - islam has been at war with everything around it from its very inception. There's about 50 years (in 1,400 ish) in which it hasn't been at war.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Radical Muslims even murder their own. No revelation there.

Who killed Yitzhak Rabin? That's right, radical Jews also kill their own.

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

More accurately, it's what happens in certain theocratic regimes. Not all. And this isn't just a mix of Islam and politics - Islam is inherently political and inherently violent.

You're deluded. A theocratic Israel would be a bloodstained hellhole, even worse than today.

Originally Posted by Doofy 

At best, my perfect plan for islam is to send all its adherents to Saudi and build a big wall around the place. I want it gone, finished.

Oh, you anarcho-capitalists are such freedom-lovers.

Originally Posted by Doofy 

A strange thing happens as more and more "mild" islamics arrive in a location - they all become more radical. Strength in numbers, etc..

Stupidity. 10 times as many Muslims live in Indonesia as Saudi Arabia.

Originally Posted by Doofy

islam is incompatible with western society and our idea of freedom. Period. The sooner you get that into your genetically deficient brains, the better.

Anarchists don't understand freedom, so it's no surpise you'd say this.

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Obviously THERE IS A DIFFERENCE between organized barbarity as practiced by the Muslim extremists and the occasional christian nit-wits.

Yes there is. Most Christians grow up in liberal democracies and are indoctrinated with belief in freedom of religion and separation of church/state. Many Muslims grow up in theocratic tyrannies and are indoctrinated with belief in theocracy and terrorism. You tend to believe in the values you've been raised with. That's why Turkey and Indonesia don't export theocracy, while Christian Europe was plagued by religious warfare until the secular age. (Except for fascism, which was an attempt to turn back the clock.)

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

This is what happens when you mix religion and politics.

THIS.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Oh, you anarcho-capitalists are such freedom-lovers.

In order to preserve freedom, one has to remove those who seek to destroy it.
This is just basic common sense. You should ask your mom what "common sense" is.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Stupidity. 10 times as many Muslims live in Indonesia as Saudi Arabia.

And how did they get there?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Stupidity. 10 times as many Muslims live in Indonesia as Saudi Arabia.

And how did they get there?

You mean aside from being born there?

Islam was spread to Indonesia by trade. Through early part of the second millennium CE, it gradually supplanted the other two major religions of the archipelago, Hinduism and Buddhism. This was during the bright, progressive days of Islam, when science, medicine and learning were prized in both secular and religious life.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I'm not aware of any forms of islam which require a turban.
Are you sure he's not a Sikh?

become aware, then
Turban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

I'm still unclear on the position of oldman and wiskedjak

Is this business as usual? and because you think Christians would do the same...its okay? Or just not newsworthy? Not outrage worthy?

Are you defending their actions, or simply downplaying it to support your political platform?

Have I defended the actions of the killers?

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

There are no peaceful followers of islam... In much the same way that there's no peaceful followers of nazism.

The sooner you libs get this in your head, the better.

This is what happens when you live on a farm in the country by yourself. Having zero personal experience with a situation and drawing conclusions based on news reports and clippings is the stuff of crazies.

greg

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

This is what happens when you live on a farm in the country by yourself. Having zero personal experience with a situation and drawing conclusions based on news reports and clippings is the stuff of crazies.

You must be assuming that I don't own rental houses in the ghettos.
I do.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

become aware, then
Turban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The men of many Islamic cultures have worn or wear a headdress of some sort that may be considered a turban.

So is it a turban or is it a headdress of some sort which may be considered a turban?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Islam was spread to Indonesia by trade. Through early part of the second millennium CE, it gradually supplanted the other two major religions of the archipelago, Hinduism and Buddhism. This was during the bright, progressive days of Islam, when science, medicine and learning were prized in both secular and religious life.

Islam came to the Southeast Asia, first by the way of Muslim traders along the main trade-route between Asia and the Far East, then was further spread by Sufi missionaries and finally consolidated by the expansion of the territories of converted rulers and their communities.

These bright, progressive days of islam... ...absolutely no conquering (by force) of whole regions during that time then? No Seljuk wars then?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

So is it a turban or is it a headdress of some sort which may be considered a turban?

Turbans are clearly not limited to what you stereotypically think of when you see the word.

I've worked with him for over a year. I understand that it might be difficult for you to understand getting to know people of different cultures, but trust me when I say that he's a Muslim.

And, he hasn't yet tried to convert or kill me (also clearly difficult for you to grasp).

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

We, as a "civilised" people can continue to let "barbarians" execute people because we don't give a shit about Africa. I know I'm absolutely generalising to the lowest common denominator, but as a society, it's certainly true.

Nothing personal, but i'm sick of this line of argument. It's not the U.S.'s, nor Europe's nor anyone else's responsibility to "give a shit about Africa" or any place else. Maybe it's time for Africa to "give a shit about Africa" ?

As far as the OP.... agreed. The argument that they are the "target du jour" might have something to do with the fact that they are the biggest problem(of this kind) du jour (relatively speaking).

Cheers

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I understand that it might be difficult for you to understand getting to know people of different cultures

Why would it be difficult for me to understand getting to know people of different cultures? Attempting to stereotype those with opposing views, are we?

What do you take me for? One of your redneck neighbours?