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Major Development on Osama Bin Laden (Page 2)
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May 2, 2011, 01:21 AM
 
The reporters on CNN have him reelected.
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May 2, 2011, 01:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
The only thing that bugs me about this is that the crowd in front of the White House is mostly made of annoying George Washington University students who were freakin' 8 years old on 9/11 and the media is lapping it up.

If they are happy about anything it's that otherwise they would be studying for finals right now.
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May 2, 2011, 01:30 AM
 
This reminds of Martin Sheen in the "Dead Zone"
Osama bin Laden killed, U.S. has his body - Local News - Portland, OR - msnbc.com
An adult son of bin Laden, and a woman used as human shield, were also killed in operation
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May 2, 2011, 01:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by smacintush View Post
It's not as if he is a rabid wacko animal that just HAPPENS to be a muslim. His muslim-ness is a key part of his own justifications for his actions.
Exactly.
     
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May 2, 2011, 01:46 AM
 
Thank God. I was wondering why my father was only able to come in for a few hours on Easter.

Osama stole so many parts out of my life, I can't help but celebrate his death.
     
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May 2, 2011, 01:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Is there a reason for being particular about calling him a Muslim?
I called him a muslim wacko. I acknowledge there are some or even plenty of Muslims that are NOT murderously animated by some savage, dark ages interpretation of their religion. But Bin Laden and a lot of other muslims *are* murderously animated by such an interpretation. For instance, there's the Times Square Bomber, and then those animals who murdered the UN workers, and then the teenage savage who tried to blow up a commercial flight two Christmases ago, and the chimpanzee who murdered Theo Van Gogh, and the missing-link primates who murdered hundreds of hotel-goers in Mumbai, etc etc etc etc. All of them will always be muslim wackos, because they act in the name of their religion.

Is there a reason for your always trying to sweep the religion of these wackos under the rug, when that's what motivates their actions? If a white supremacist murdered a black man, who would complain when people cited the fact that the murderer was a white supremacist, as if that had nothing to do with the murderer's actions?
     
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May 2, 2011, 01:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Maybe, but doesn't this imply that this is par for the course for being a Muslim?
He chose his faith as his public identity, his reasons for his actions, his motivation to lead people etc. Everything he did publicly, he did in the name of Allah. Describing him as a muslim in this context is perfectly fair, reasonable and proper.

IMNSHO
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May 2, 2011, 01:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by k2director View Post
Is there a reason for your always trying to sweep the religion of these wackos under the rug, when that's what motivates their actions? If a white supremacist murdered a black man, who would complain when people cited the fact that the murderer was a white supremacist?
Perhaps we can stop referring to Hitler as a Nazi?
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May 2, 2011, 02:10 AM
 
Oh for the love of God people, would you shut the hell up. This isn't political. This is a day of the US to embrace the fact that we accomplished something we set our minds to.

Osama was a genocidal maniac, and had no place in the modern world. Can you not remember 9/11 and the lives that we destroyed in the process?

Obama responded well. Petraeus responded well, and I congratulate them as a military family republican.
     
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May 2, 2011, 02:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by k2director View Post
I called him a muslim wacko. I acknowledge there are some or even plenty of Muslims that are NOT murderously animated by some savage, dark ages interpretation of their religion. But Bin Laden and a lot of other muslims *are* murderously animated by such an interpretation. For instance, there's the Times Square Bomber, and then those animals who murdered the UN workers, and then the teenage savage who tried to blow up a commercial flight two Christmases ago, and the chimpanzee who murdered Theo Van Gogh, and the missing-link primates who murdered hundreds of hotel-goers in Mumbai, etc etc etc etc. All of them will always be muslim wackos, because they act in the name of their religion.

Is there a reason for your always trying to sweep the religion of these wackos under the rug, when that's what motivates their actions? If a white supremacist murdered a black man, who would complain when people cited the fact that the murderer was a white supremacist, as if that had nothing to do with the murderer's actions?

So are you saying that hypothetically speaking if there were a serial killer in America that we found out considered himself Christian that you would be okay with me going on about a wacko Christian serial killer?
     
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May 2, 2011, 02:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by smacintush View Post
He chose his faith as his public identity, his reasons for his actions, his motivation to lead people etc. Everything he did publicly, he did in the name of Allah. Describing him as a muslim in this context is perfectly fair, reasonable and proper.

IMNSHO

So, and here's a better hypothetical for you k2director, you'd be okay with me going on calling the Westboro Baptist dudes Christian wackos?
     
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May 2, 2011, 02:23 AM
 
JSOC (Joint Special Operations Command)

Joint Special Operations Command - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I was just playing SOCOM 4 yesterday. Didn't get a chance to shoot Bin Laden.
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May 2, 2011, 02:27 AM
 
I have a question...

Several politicians have said that "justice has been done". Technically speaking, wouldn't justice involve a trial? I'm not suggesting that Osama should have been tried in court, but my question is what exactly does our laws say about the appropriate course of action for an act like this? If the perpetrator is an international terrorist than an eye for an eye is considered just?

Again, I'm not insinuating anything, I'm just looking for clarification as to why "justice has been done" is being said repeatedly.
     
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May 2, 2011, 02:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I have a question...

Several politicians have said that "justice has been done". Technically speaking, wouldn't justice involve a trial? I'm not suggesting that Osama should have been tried in court, but my question is what exactly does our laws say about the appropriate course of action for an act like this? If the perpetrator is an international terrorist than an eye for an eye is considered just?

Again, I'm not insinuating anything, I'm just looking for clarification as to why "justice has been done" is being said repeatedly.
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May 2, 2011, 02:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I have a question...

Several politicians have said that "justice has been done". Technically speaking, wouldn't justice involve a trial? I'm not suggesting that Osama should have been tried in court, but my question is what exactly does our laws say about the appropriate course of action for an act like this? If the perpetrator is an international terrorist than an eye for an eye is considered just?

Again, I'm not insinuating anything, I'm just looking for clarification as to why "justice has been done" is being said repeatedly.
Justice according to whom/what?

They're not talking about justice according to the law. Justice according to their own view or belief.

Hell, if he was eaten by a lion, that would be justice. Karmic Justice?
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May 2, 2011, 02:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
So, and here's a better hypothetical for you k2director, you'd be okay with me going on calling the Westboro Baptist dudes Christian wackos?
Westboro inbreds absolutely are Christian wackos. They believe their extremist, hateful, tortured interpretation of Christianity is authentic Christianity, and their motivation comes from those religious beliefs. It's a pretty good analogy to draw with Bin Laden. His extremist, hateful interpretation of Islam was the motivation for his terrorism.

besson, why are you so fearful of people telling the truth about radical Islam?

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May 2, 2011, 02:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
So are you saying that hypothetically speaking if there were a serial killer in America that we found out considered himself Christian that you would be okay with me going on about a wacko Christian serial killer?
How do you always miss this fundamental point, Besson? It would not be okay to dwell on the serial killer's Christian religion if that religion had not motivated his murders. He might also be a Star Wars fan, and a lover of impressionistic painting. I would not cite those interests either in defining him. I cite Osama's Islamic religion, and the Islamic religion of so many other murderous savages because that religion is indeed the primary motivator for their actions. If you ask them why they kill innocent people in office buildings, hotels, train stations, airplanes, parks, army bases, etc., they would say "My religion compels me" (I'm paraphrasing). And so, it's quite fine to cite their religion when describing them, since that's at the heart of their actions.

However, if a Muslim happened to shoot up an office building, but did so because he had been laid off, or he was bankrupt, or his wife left him, I would not call him a "muslim wacko"....just a "wacko". Why? Because something beside his religion compelled him to do it.

But let's go back to your Christian Serial Killer example. Suppose a Christian did kill people because he felt Christianity compelled him to do it. I would *still* not dwell on his Christian religion because in the real world, he's just about the only person I can see who's killing people in the name of Christianity. He's an aberration, a fluke. But Muslims have been murdering or attempting to murder innocent people in the name of Islam for many many years. We have dozens if not hundreds of examples, from all over the world. When there are so many examples, it is proof of a real trend, and further bolsters the idea that there's something rotten about a religion that compels so many people in some many places of the world to murder civilians.

By the way, while I usually agree with Big Mac, I would not call the Westboro folks wackos the way I call Muslims wackos. Why? Because as obnoxious and obscene as the Westboro folks are, they're not killing anybody or physcially hurting them. They protest, they speak out, but they're not violent, and they're not trying to incite anyone to violence. As far as I'm concerned, they're acting within the bounds of civilization (the outer bounds, but still the bounds).
     
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May 2, 2011, 03:02 AM
 
Well written, k2. We should form a MacNN Left Coast Conservatives Club.

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May 2, 2011, 03:06 AM
 
Bessie, you are over thinking this. It's just a description of his/their particular sect of Islam. It's not wacko, Muslim. It's wacko Muslim. Sorta like Sunni Muslim.

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May 2, 2011, 03:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Westboro inbreds absolutely are Christian wackos. They believe their extremist, hateful, tortured interpretation of Christianity is authentic Christianity, and their motivation comes from those religious beliefs. It's a pretty good analogy to draw with Bin Laden. His extremist, hateful interpretation of Islam was the motivation for his terrorism.

besson, why are you so fearful of people telling the truth about radical Islam?

Because their motivations have no actionable benefit at best, and could be hateful at worst.
     
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May 2, 2011, 03:12 AM
 
     
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May 2, 2011, 03:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by smacintush View Post
Bessie, you are over thinking this. It's just a description of his/their particular sect of Islam. It's not wacko, Muslim. It's wacko Muslim. Sorta like Sunni Muslim.


I might be over-thinking this or tackling this from a less productive direction, but I do think that there is little to be gained by making it a point to isolate wacko Muslims this way, because the fact you can't easily identify a wacko Muslim in a crowd makes this sort of speech not particularly actionable, and at worst it might incite witch hunt type behavior.

Put it this way, I would not want to be a religious Muslim living in many parts of America right now, it must be particularly rough, and that it is is not a good thing.

For the record I recognize the existence of wacko Muslims. I'm not a fan of wacko anything, and I can buy into the notion that perhaps there is something to this faith and practice that makes them more prone to wackoism than other religions, but still, there are a hell of a lot of Muslims in the world, and I'm not a fan of the reality of my point in my last paragraph.
     
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May 2, 2011, 03:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Justice according to whom/what?

They're not talking about justice according to the law. Justice according to their own view or belief.

Hell, if he was eaten by a lion, that would be justice. Karmic Justice?

Thanks, I was sort of assuming that they were referring to justice in this non-literal way, but with so many politicians saying exactly this I wasn't sure if there was something I didn't understand and perhaps this was intended literally. I know very little about international law during war and stuff like that.
     
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May 2, 2011, 03:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
For the record I recognize the existence of wacko Muslims. I'm not a fan of wacko anything, and I can buy into the notion that perhaps there is something to this faith and practice that makes them more prone to wackoism than other religions, but still, there are a hell of a lot of Muslims in the world, and I'm not a fan of the reality of my point in my last paragraph.
I fail to see the value in sugar-coating or outright dishonesty either. If their religion is indeed as you suggest it might be, we have right to speak out about it. It would be wrong not to.

What exactly is to be gained by being pathologically respectful to those whose beliefs are dangerous?
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May 2, 2011, 03:38 AM
 
Found living in a large house only 30 miles from the Pakistani capital. Hard to believe the Pakistani govt didn't know where he was. And hadn't know for some time.
     
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May 2, 2011, 03:42 AM
 
I wouldn't say Religion motivated his crimes, I would say he twisted religion to enlist others to commit the crimes. Im sure his motives where Self Power related above all else.
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May 2, 2011, 03:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post

For the record I recognize the existence of wacko Muslims. I'm not a fan of wacko anything, and I can buy into the notion that perhaps there is something to this faith and practice that makes them more prone to wackoism than other religions
Or does Islam happen to be the major religion in those parts of the world with sufficient instability and/or other factors that allow it to be used by those in, or seeking power, as an excuse for their actions or as a force to motivate people into a power base.
     
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May 2, 2011, 03:45 AM
 
BBC just saying that the US have already buried him at sea. Apparently to avoid creating a focal point around his body and also out of respect for Islamic customs of quick burial. They must have knocked up some pretty solid CSi style evidence already. I can already hear the conspiracy theorists spinning up their net connections.
     
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May 2, 2011, 04:01 AM
 
But... but... wasn't Osama killed years ago? These highly informed George Bush, Jr. supporters here always said so!
And: Obama still rhymes with Osama!

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May 2, 2011, 04:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by smacintush View Post
I fail to see the value in sugar-coating or outright dishonesty either. If their religion is indeed as you suggest it might be, we have right to speak out about it. It would be wrong not to.

What exactly is to be gained by being pathologically respectful to those whose beliefs are dangerous?

You misunderstand me, what I wrote has nothing to do with respect for religion or beliefs, but about simply keeping the peace particularly domestically.
     
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May 2, 2011, 04:18 AM
 
No body no death i will not believe he is dead unless there is a body.
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May 2, 2011, 04:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
You misunderstand me, what I wrote has nothing to do with respect for religion or beliefs, but about simply keeping the peace particularly domestically.
The effect is the same.
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May 2, 2011, 04:33 AM
 
I'm more than a little surprised that the special forces didn't take Bin Laden alive. Wouldn't he be a valuable source of intel?
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May 2, 2011, 04:36 AM
 
They may not have had the opportunity. Dead is easier than alive. And some have theorized that his own guards may have killed him knowing that they were being overrun.

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May 2, 2011, 04:39 AM
 
No body? Buried at sea? Hmm...
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May 2, 2011, 06:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
They may not have had the opportunity.
True enough.
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Dead is easier than alive.
But IMHO it would have been preferable to take him alive. I wonder if they've taken any prisoners during the operation.
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May 2, 2011, 06:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I have a question...

Several politicians have said that "justice has been done". Technically speaking, wouldn't justice involve a trial?
He always said he wouldn't be taken alive. There was never going to be a chance for a trial. Sometimes "justice" means that the person committing the crime takes actions which negates their right to a trial, and they are given summary judgement.

His decision.
     
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May 2, 2011, 06:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
So, and here's a better hypothetical for you k2director, you'd be okay with me going on calling the Westboro Baptist dudes Christian wackos?
I think it's an apt description.
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May 2, 2011, 07:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
/sigh

Seriously, do I have to explain when I'm just goofing off and making a joke?
Only to Secular Humanists and Marxists. Satire is not their forte.
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May 2, 2011, 07:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Stogieman View Post
That's friggin' awesome!
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May 2, 2011, 07:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
The only thing that bugs me about this is that the crowd in front of the White House is mostly made of annoying George Washington University students who were freakin' 8 years old on 9/11 and the media is lapping it up.

If they are happy about anything it's that otherwise they would be studying for finals right now.
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May 2, 2011, 07:33 AM
 
Anyone have a plausible explanation why it took almost 10 freakin' years to get him? Just seems odd. And buried at sea? Conspiracy theorists rejoice!!! (Just to clarify, I fully accept the governments claim that he is dead.)
     
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May 2, 2011, 07:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by k2director View Post
But let's go back to your Christian Serial Killer example. Suppose a Christian did kill people because he felt Christianity compelled him to do it. I would *still* not dwell on his Christian religion because in the real world, he's just about the only person I can see who's killing people in the name of Christianity. He's an aberration, a fluke. But Muslims have been murdering or attempting to murder innocent people in the name of Islam for many many years. We have dozens if not hundreds of examples, from all over the world. When there are so many examples, it is proof of a real trend, and further bolsters the idea that there's something rotten about a religion that compels so many people in some many places of the world to murder civilians.
Way to undermine your whole argument.

And seriously? A christian who kills for religious reasons is a fluke? The truth is that extremist muslims are just a few hundred years behind the modern world. Most christians have finally grown out of the idea of killing everyone who disagrees with them. Having said that, US presidents still talk about God and Jesus when they go to war.

The WBC ARE wackos. Violent or not. Its probably just a matter of time.
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May 2, 2011, 08:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
Anyone have a plausible explanation why it took almost 10 freakin' years to get him?
Finding one person on a planet of billions isn't all that easy, especially when they're hiding out in some of the lowest tech places.

Just seems odd. And buried at sea? Conspiracy theorists rejoice!!! (Just to clarify, I fully accept the governments claim that he is dead.)
Yep, certainly seems odd. But, it's probably true; it'd be a pretty big political risk to claim the death of someone who could very easily publish a video stating that news of his death was highly exaggerated.
     
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May 2, 2011, 08:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I'm more than a little surprised that the special forces didn't take Bin Laden alive. Wouldn't he be a valuable source of intel?
There's also the whole martyr thing.
     
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May 2, 2011, 08:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
Anyone have a plausible explanation why it took almost 10 freakin' years to get him? Just seems odd. And buried at sea? Conspiracy theorists rejoice!!! (Just to clarify, I fully accept the governments claim that he is dead.)
10 years? Because he changed his appearance, went into hiding, and was protected by a large, sympathetic group of people. They had to bury him within 24 hours, according to his customs, probably to avoid pissing off 20% of the world. Likely it was at sea so that it still conformed to Muslim law, but no one could dig him up and enshrine him as a saint.
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May 2, 2011, 08:41 AM
 
It should be leaked that his remains were cremated along with a pig.

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May 2, 2011, 08:45 AM
 
     
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May 2, 2011, 08:54 AM
 
It may be the first legitimate accomplishment of this administration.

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May 2, 2011, 09:02 AM
 
Folks at work here are spreading some interesting rumors they read overnight. Who knows if they're true, but what good is the Internet is we can't spread information of questionable truth?

- Pakistan wasn't notified of the raid at all.

- Osama's mansion was in the same town as the Pakistani military academy. wonder how hard they were looking for him?

- Some guy in that town was live-twittering the raid on the compound, completely oblivious to the fact that Bin Laden lived there. It was more like "Hey, there's some strange military exercise going on and a lot of noise, and some of those helicopters aren't Pakistani, WTF?"

- He was buried at sea because the Saudis refused to take his remains.
     
 
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