Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Osama Bin Laden: Myth or Reality?

Osama Bin Laden: Myth or Reality?
Thread Tools
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 12:29 PM
 
I see all these news stories flooding the net about Osama Bin Laden being dead, killed by US Forces. Keywords like "victory" and the US "got him in the end"... all this seems so contrived.

I see pictures of Americans celebrating, taking to the streets. Rob Lowe even smiling and celebrating.

As someone with a background in security and the military... now far away from it... I find it fascinating how quickly people just believe what the media spits out.

I don't deny terrorism, real threats to security... But:

I don't know for sure either way, but personally my perspective is that the whole "Osama Bin Laden thing" is bullshit. There is no "devil" out to get all Americans.

That Bin Laden was a made up character in order for the US to manufacture fear and consent to go to war to kick start the economy and secure oil.

Now, the fact that he's "dead"... Americans have another reason to be afraid: revenge from Al Qaeda. The "terrorism" saga continues...

America: ~4000 killed at the WTC on 9/11. Afghanistan: hundreds of thousands of civilians killed during the US' occupation there... women... little babies in pieces rotting on the streets... Sounds fair, doesn't it?
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 12:52 PM
 
Great story bro
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Valley of the Sun
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 01:17 PM
 
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Rochester, NY
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 01:24 PM
 
If it were a myth, don't you think we would have "found" him sooner?
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 01:32 PM
 
So you're saying that in addition to the death certificate, we'll need Osama's long form birth certificate, college transcripts, and any notes he might have shared with Bill Ayers?

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 01:40 PM
 
Osama Bin Laden -> Real CIA Agent for the US Government during USSR invasion of the middle east in the 80s. Funding by the US government and armed.
Al-Qaeda - Myth, CIA Software Program originally turned into BS cover for internally created terrorist events to help sway American people to give more power to the Government. Exact same as the burning of the Reichstag allowing for the Enabling Act which the Patriot Act resembles.

What I suspect, Osama died of Natural Causes of old age and this just covers up his 10 year lavish life style paid by the US government for taking the blame of the Terrorist acts allowing the patriot act. He died of natural causes so they pretend they found and killed him and sank him at see to hide the evidence of a natural death. Or Obama wanted a diversion over the Birth Certificate stuff and decided to kill one of there own operatives, Osama saving the tax payer money of continuing to pay him off for taking the blame of the Terrorist acts.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 01:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Osama Bin Laden -> Real CIA Agent for the US Government during USSR invasion of the middle east in the 80s. Funding by the US government and armed.
Al-Qaeda - Myth, CIA Software Program originally turned into BS cover for internally created terrorist events to help sway American people to give more power to the Government. Exact same as the burning of the Reichstag allowing for the Enabling Act which the Patriot Act resembles.

What I suspect, Osama died of Natural Causes of old age and this just covers up his 10 year lavish life style paid by the US government for taking the blame of the Terrorist acts allowing the patriot act. He died of natural causes so they pretend they found and killed him and sank him at see to hide the evidence of a natural death. Or Obama wanted a diversion over the Birth Certificate stuff and decided to kill one of there own operatives, Osama saving the tax payer money of continuing to pay him off for taking the blame of the Terrorist acts.
Gut feeling?
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 01:45 PM
 
PS first photo out on the Internet of him being dead is fake


Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 01:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Gut feeling?
Evidence and Logic
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 01:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
PS first photo out on the Internet of him being dead is fake


Yep. You can tell, because in the second picture he wasn't shot in the face.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 01:53 PM
 
Look at the lips, beard, teeth, checks, its the same photo with another head of a dead person copied on top. Look at the skin color. Right photo Source, left photo fake using part of the source image on the right.....
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 01:57 PM
 
Two photos of the same person appearing to show similar features? No, I don't believe it. You'll need to show me the pixels.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 02:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Look at the lips, beard, teeth, checks, its the same photo with another head of a dead person copied on top. Look at the skin color. Right photo Source, left photo fake using part of the source image on the right.....
The photo was from 2009 story from an online Middle Eastern media website. It has nothing to do with the current events. Yes, it's fake.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 02:22 PM
 
TMZ is on the case:

Osama bin Laden -- BOGUS Death Photo | TMZ.com

Sounds like this photo did not originate with the U.S. government.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 03:25 PM
 
If we really wanted to start wars to secure oil we should have manufactured a Canadian terrorist, since...you know, most of our oil comes from Canada.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 03:55 PM
 
He is obviously a real guy (or was), I never heard anyone offer any reason as to why he was connected to 9/11 in the first place. The picture that was painted of him was of someone who publicly and proudly hated the west. I always thought it odd he never released any audio or video taking credit for the attacks. Plus such a hateful man would have scheduled the attacks a couple of hours later on an increased the death toll ten fold or more.

Al Qaeda is the more likely myth in my opinion. A terrorist organisation that is set up so that no cell knows about the operations of any other cell makes for great episodes of 24 but in reality is not so different from a number of small unrelated organisations. It stinks of a branding exercise.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 04:22 PM
 
You should get more...sleep
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Garden of Paradise Motel, Suite 3D
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 08:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I see all these news stories flooding the net about Osama Bin Laden being dead, killed by US Forces. Keywords like "victory" and the US "got him in the end"... all this seems so contrived.

I see pictures of Americans celebrating, taking to the streets. Rob Lowe even smiling and celebrating.

As someone with a background in security and the military... now far away from it... I find it fascinating how quickly people just believe what the media spits out.

I don't deny terrorism, real threats to security... But:

I don't know for sure either way, but personally my perspective is that the whole "Osama Bin Laden thing" is bullshit. There is no "devil" out to get all Americans.

That Bin Laden was a made up character in order for the US to manufacture fear and consent to go to war to kick start the economy and secure oil.

Now, the fact that he's "dead"... Americans have another reason to be afraid: revenge from Al Qaeda. The "terrorism" saga continues...

America: ~4000 killed at the WTC on 9/11. Afghanistan: hundreds of thousands of civilians killed during the US' occupation there... women... little babies in pieces rotting on the streets... Sounds fair, doesn't it?
I'll be willing to at least entertain this idea as plausible if you'll entertain the idea that the Left consciously uses
class warfare propaganda to manipulate the "poor" in this country against the "rich."

Throw in some admission that global warming is simply mass hysteria and I'll concede that OBL never gassed puppies for giggles, either.
He can be fixed -- you can't.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 08:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
He is obviously a real guy (or was), I never heard anyone offer any reason as to why he was connected to 9/11 in the first place. The picture that was painted of him was of someone who publicly and proudly hated the west. I always thought it odd he never released any audio or video taking credit for the attacks. Plus such a hateful man would have scheduled the attacks a couple of hours later on an increased the death toll ten fold or more.

Al Qaeda is the more likely myth in my opinion. A terrorist organisation that is set up so that no cell knows about the operations of any other cell makes for great episodes of 24 but in reality is not so different from a number of small unrelated organisations. It stinks of a branding exercise.
7/10. Good show!
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Valley of the Sun
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 08:22 PM
 
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Valley of the Sun
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 2, 2011, 09:23 PM
 
yep, he's announced the start of deatherism
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
     
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 3, 2011, 10:55 AM
 
I don't listen to Alex Jones really, but I did tune in last night. He is a bit of an alarmist ********, but on this issue, I'm right beside him 100%. Like me and others, he just can't believe that anyone is buying any of this.

The cherry on top? Bin Laden buried at sea? Jesus, this is worse than a Days of Our Lives episode. Please, America, don't be so gullible. What happen over the past decade was disgusting. The sad reality... if your country goes broke, which it seems on track to becoming, how many people in the world are going to feel 'sorry' for you?

Reality bites, hard.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, Washington
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 3, 2011, 11:26 AM
 
Thank goodness we have you to let us know that everything is horribly wrong.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 3, 2011, 10:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I don't know for sure either way, but personally my perspective is that the whole "Osama Bin Laden thing" is bullshit. There is no "devil" out to get all Americans.
Never mind the fact almost any expert of security and the military privy to such information would assure you of the contrary...

That Bin Laden was a made up character in order for the US to manufacture fear and consent to go to war to kick start the economy and secure oil.
Where's all this oil then? Can you show me some of those spigots in Iraq with U.S.A. stamped on them? I'd like to point this out to our government before gas goes to $4.50/gallon.

The war in Afghanistan was for poppies no doubt.
ebuddy
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 3, 2011, 10:54 PM
 
Craziness.
     
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2011, 02:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Never mind the fact almost any expert of security and the military privy to such information would assure you of the contrary...


Where's all this oil then? Can you show me some of those spigots in Iraq with U.S.A. stamped on them? I'd like to point this out to our government before gas goes to $4.50/gallon.

The war in Afghanistan was for poppies no doubt.
What makes you think prices of oil should be going down?
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2011, 08:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
What makes you think prices of oil should be going down?
That's not what I asked you. I asked you for the Iraqi spigots with U.S.A. stamped on them. If the ridiculously expensive action in Iraq was for oil and our economy; where is the oil and to what affect on our economy? Are we pumping oil and money out of Afghanistan too?
ebuddy
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2011, 09:54 AM
 
"Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid."

What is it about this place lately that makes this appropriate in almost every thread?
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2011, 10:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
"Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid."

What is it about this place lately that makes this appropriate in almost every thread?
Apparently the only thing keeping us together was Osama.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jul 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2011, 08:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
"Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid."
Here's me quoting you quoting me.

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
What is it about this place lately that makes this appropriate in almost every thread?
Lately?! I've been visiting this forum for nearly ten years, purely for the quality of stupid on offer here. Posters here are attracted like iron filings to the stupid magnet that is MacNN, revealing a rare Internet Stupidity Field.

Concentrated stupid such as this should be savoured like a fine wine, my friend. Relish every word.



Adam Curtis (Century of Self, Power of Nightmares) nails the Bin Laden situation here.

Bin Laden and his ideological mentor, Ayman al-Zawahiri, talked about "the near enemy" and the "far enemy". But from 2001 onwards they became America's "far enemy". Neoconservative politicians, who had last tasted real power under President Reagan during the cold war, took the few known facts about Bin Laden and Zawahiri and fitted them to the template they knew so well: an evil enemy with sleeper cells and "tentacles" throughout the world, whose sole aim was the destruction of western civilisation. Al-Qaida became the new Soviet Union, and in the process Bin Laden became a demonic, terrifyingly powerful figure brooding in a cave while he controlled and directed the al-Qaida network throughout the world. In this way, a serious but manageable terrorist threat became grossly exaggerated.

Journalists, many of whom also yearned for the simplicity of the old days, grabbed at this: from the outset, the reporting of the Islamist terror threat was distorted to reflect this dominant simplified narrative. And Bin Laden grabbed at it too. As the journalists who actually met him report, he was brilliant at publicity. All three – the neoconservatives, the "terror journalists", and Bin Laden himself – effectively worked together to create a dramatically simple story of looming apocalypse. It wasn't in any way a conspiracy. Each of them had stumbled in their different ways on a simplified fantasy that fitted with their own needs.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 4, 2011, 08:49 PM
 
Iraq was about oil, Afghanistan was just revenge to appease the voters.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2011, 07:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Iraq was about oil...
Okay I'll ask you then, where's the oil?

Seven major contracts were granted via auction in 2009 projected to produce up to 12 million barrels per day by 2016 and comprise the lion's share of Iraqi oil output, can you tell me how many of those contracts went to the US or US firms? *Hint: it'll be hard to find the US influence in the majority contracts granted to Russia, China, and even Angola.
ebuddy
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2011, 07:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Apparently the only thing keeping us together was Osama.
ebuddy
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The Intertube
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2011, 08:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Apparently the only thing keeping us together was Osama.
hasn't this always been the doctrine of the US? a common enemy is the best way to unite the States.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2011, 08:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Sealobo View Post
hasn't this always been the doctrine of the US? a common enemy is the best way to unite the States.
How is this a US doctrine? Isn't this merely a facet of mankind or has the US become the common enemy that unites others like say... Russia, China, Syria, Iran...?
ebuddy
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2011, 09:20 AM
 
It's a pretty common political ploy to utilize (or introduce) a common enemy to distract people from your weaknesses.
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2011, 01:31 PM
 
I hear OBL was killed by his own body guard to keep him from spilling the beans.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2011, 01:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Okay I'll ask you then, where's the oil?

Seven major contracts were granted via auction in 2009 projected to produce up to 12 million barrels per day by 2016 and comprise the lion's share of Iraqi oil output, can you tell me how many of those contracts went to the US or US firms? *Hint: it'll be hard to find the US influence in the majority contracts granted to Russia, China, and even Angola.
IT was about the oil but not flowing oil. Saddam was going to switch Oil from being backed by US money to the Euro and was going to get all of Opec to make the switch. This would have been devastating to the US so they took him out.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2011, 02:26 PM
 
How would Saddam make all of OPEC switch currencies? Why would OPEC want to shun the largest consumer of oil in the world?
     
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2011, 02:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
IT was about the oil but not flowing oil. Saddam was going to switch Oil from being backed by US money to the Euro and was going to get all of Opec to make the switch. This would have been devastating to the US so they took him out.
What better way to manufacture fear and consent to go to war with Iraq... to take control of the oil situation there... than with a character like OBL. Now that the 'terrorism' threat is staged, we can find all these excuses to go to war. In Saddam's case, he was supposed to have been a supporter of terrorist groups, in addition to having WMD. The argument goes... someone who supports terrorists and has WMD... that terrorist groups could potentially launch nuclear weapons against the developed world... this is a person that must be taken out.

Aside from the oil situation, the threat to the US where Saddam was wanting to lean the price of oil against the Euro rather than the US dollar... aside from that, war is an excellent way to kickstart economies. Countless industries benefit from war with all of the munitions, supplies, and research and development and other contracts spit out from it. It's the good old military industrial complex at work.

In Russia's case, the occupation of Afghanistan... a big part of that was simply to lure the US into a war with them. But the US was smart: they sent munitions and money to the Afghan military, thereby indirectly fighting the big red machine without getting any blood on their hands. Russia was essentially "stumped" and was like a lost child in a department store. Eventually, they gave up and got out. By then, it was too late. They were so broke their whole system collapsed...

If you believe that America spent hundreds of billions of dollars a year for several years in a row without expecting an ROI... that Americans are "freedom fighters"... that war really is about idealistic purposes and not money and control of power, land, and people... you're truly sad.

From the experience I have... from the research I've done... from what I know... OBL is simply a myth who doesn't exist in the way the media has portrayed him to us. The media told a story, and people buy it. It's repugnant and terrible. But hey, if you want to believe in boogymen, go ahead...
( Last edited by freudling; May 5, 2011 at 02:51 PM. )
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2011, 04:19 PM
 
I'm listening. Who is he, then? Where's your evidence?
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Valley of the Sun
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2011, 05:48 PM
 
Someone's been listening to the Alex Jones show.
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
     
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2011, 10:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Someone's been listening to the Alex Jones show.
Jesus. No, I do not listen to Alex Jones, I think he's an alarmist jerk. I did tune in, like I said, once the other night. And the only reason is because I got a new iPod Touch and saw the App in the App Store. I downloaded it to try out streaming radio, among a boatload of other Apps and tuned in. Actually, glad I did. It was a good show and a nice App.

On this point about the myth of OBL, I agree.

To all the "The New York Times published an article that OBL was killed, that it's a victory for the US, so it must be all true!" people, I have a question: do you believe in Santa Claus?
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2011, 10:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Aside from the oil situation, the threat to the US where Saddam was wanting to lean the price of oil against the Euro rather than the US dollar... aside from that, war is an excellent way to kickstart economies. Countless industries benefit from war with all of the munitions, supplies, and research and development and other contracts spit out from it. It's the good old military industrial complex at work.
Right, so the claimant should be able to show the ROI, but you see... there isn't any. You can't tell me what appreciable gain in the economy has resulted from action in Iraq because action in Iraq, including the oil contracts it has granted out, has been a net-loss. The ROI is staging grounds in Iraq as a check to those Iraq was in an arms race against, evidenced by the massive embassy stationed there. Iraq has oil and commodities like this are critical for a burgeoning democracy to succeed. In short, 12 years of economic sanctions and 13 UN Resolutions wasn't working either. Prosperity is infectious and it works from the inside-out. Perhaps someday they'll share the spoils of their improved livelihood with those who shed blood helping them get it. I'm not holding my breath, but only time will tell. At present - no economic ROI.

In Russia's case, the occupation of Afghanistan... a big part of that was simply to lure the US into a war with them. But the US was smart: they sent munitions and money to the Afghan military, thereby indirectly fighting the big red machine without getting any blood on their hands. Russia was essentially "stumped" and was like a lost child in a department store. Eventually, they gave up and got out. By then, it was too late. They were so broke their whole system collapsed...
Correct. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. This is the way of things and is not exclusive to US foreign policy. It does work from time to time which is why governments employ the tactic. It has a tendency to backfire eventually because after all, you're dealing with despots in the Middle East. The implications of non-action too often beg for action. No one has all the answers. Not the ones who failed to protect their interests and not the ones bent on protecting them.

If you believe that America spent hundreds of billions of dollars a year for several years in a row without expecting an ROI... that Americans are "freedom fighters"... that war really is about idealistic purposes and not money and control of power, land, and people... you're truly sad.
Conversely, if you believe everything you see on low-budget French documentaries complete with spooky music and zippy frames for the short attention span; you're not only being duped by sensationalism, but get to enjoy the incredibly myopic misdirect provided you by anti-capitalists bent on fomenting concern over US black helicopters and oil interests so you'll forget that every governing ideal on the planet is attempting to position themselves geopolitically. Don't blame the US. Even animal predators fight over the gazelle-laden plains. It is the way of things.

From the experience I have... from the research I've done... from what I know... OBL is simply a myth who doesn't exist in the way the media has portrayed him to us. The media told a story, and people buy it. It's repugnant and terrible. But hey, if you want to believe in boogymen, go ahead...
There weren't thousands of people in the streets over Usama, maybe hundreds. Whatever media you're ingesting may be making more of him than anyone else. I think you'll find the hotness of this story fading rather quickly.
ebuddy
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2011, 10:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
To all the "The New York Times published an article that OBL was killed, that it's a victory for the US, so it must be all true!" people, I have a question: do you believe in Santa Claus?
No. This is why people who get their information on Santa Claus from the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, the Sandman, and the little green leprechaun make even less sense.
ebuddy
     
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 5, 2011, 11:06 PM
 
Imagine a world where people don't really care too much about you. Imagine a world where governments and big companies operate in connection with each other to control people, land, and resources. Imagine a world where companies like Good Year Tire hire private military soldiers to guard land that they annex abroad in order to mine for raw materials for their tires, so they can be more profitable. Imagine a world where the country of Georgia has been 7 years overdue on a $100 million bill owed to an American energy company, and how that can lead to tensions between both governments. Imagine a world where a government would kill its own president. Imagine a world where a developed country would allow the dropping of an atomic bomb on thousands of civilians. Imagine a world where a government would give fake Canadian passports to two military hitmen to assassinate two major Army leaders in Palestine. Imagine a world where the media has agendas and tries to manipulate people into buying products and ideas. Imagine a world where governments and companies send out astroturfers on the Internet to argue against and belittle anyone critical of their products, services, or policies.

Imagine a world where people bullshit each other all the time.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 6, 2011, 01:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Imagine a world where people don't really care too much about you. Imagine a world where governments and big companies operate in connection with each other to control people, land, and resources. Imagine a world where companies like Good Year Tire hire private military soldiers to guard land that they annex abroad in order to mine for raw materials for their tires, so they can be more profitable. Imagine a world where the country of Georgia has been 7 years overdue on a $100 million bill owed to an American energy company, and how that can lead to tensions between both governments. Imagine a world where a government would kill its own president. Imagine a world where a developed country would allow the dropping of an atomic bomb on thousands of civilians. Imagine a world where a government would give fake Canadian passports to two military hitmen to assassinate two major Army leaders in Palestine. Imagine a world where the media has agendas and tries to manipulate people into buying products and ideas. Imagine a world where governments and companies send out astroturfers on the Internet to argue against and belittle anyone critical of their products, services, or policies.

Imagine a world where people bullshit each other all the time.
Don't have to imagine it. I just look south and see it.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 6, 2011, 08:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Imagine a world where people don't really care too much about you. Imagine a world where governments and big companies operate in connection with each other to control people, land, and resources. Imagine a world where companies like Good Year Tire hire private military soldiers to guard land that they annex abroad in order to mine for raw materials for their tires, so they can be more profitable. Imagine a world where the country of Georgia has been 7 years overdue on a $100 million bill owed to an American energy company, and how that can lead to tensions between both governments. Imagine a world where a government would kill its own president. Imagine a world where a developed country would allow the dropping of an atomic bomb on thousands of civilians. Imagine a world where a government would give fake Canadian passports to two military hitmen to assassinate two major Army leaders in Palestine. Imagine a world where the media has agendas and tries to manipulate people into buying products and ideas. Imagine a world where governments and companies send out astroturfers on the Internet to argue against and belittle anyone critical of their products, services, or policies.

Imagine a world where people bullshit each other all the time.
Imagine a world where a proud citizen of his country, which has competitively low corporate tax rates compared to other highly developed countries, would move himself and his entire business to another country just to save himself from having to pay said home country several percentage points in taxes for the pleasure of having free healthcare, free primary education and heavily subsidized higher education, and other associated benefits of a country with a moderate tradition of socialized safety nets.

Now imagine a world where that person complains about the steps other corporations take in order to become more profitable.

Imagine a world where people bullshit each other all the time.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 6, 2011, 08:30 AM
 
Imagine a forum like MacNN providing a pulpit from which to preach whatever unsubstantiated, xenophobic ill has been perpetuated by a contrarian ideology and its sensation-peddling media. Imagine this right being protected by law. Imagine a programmed ignorance with so much focus on one nation and its folly that it fails to recognize the folly that stares it in the face. Imagine a world where human nature doesn't exist and a nation at war would not expend every last man, woman, and child available to it. Imagine a sect of people collecting onto a small, undeveloped sliver of territory only to have it usurped and flanked by hostility when it becomes productive. Imagine a world that does not empower individuals with their own opportunities of prosperity and where your contributions are dictated by your government from birth; where women and children are used as cogs in the wheel of an imperialism that would never represent or protect them.

Imagine a world with no competing interests, no disagreements, no differences in ideals, and no desire to spread them. A world run by little, white snow seal pups... or Santa Claus.
ebuddy
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 6, 2011, 10:09 AM
 
I could say-ayyyyy you're a dreamer...
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
 
Thread Tools
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:44 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2014 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2