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Osama Bin Laden: Myth or Reality? (Page 2)
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May 6, 2011, 10:19 AM
 
But I'm not the only one.

You know what would have been cool, is if Bin Laden and Santa Claus, when Bin was alive... if they would have covered that song as a duet. What would that have been like? I guess we'll never know.

Maybe Bin would have rested his head on Santa's belly throughout the song, both of them taking a turn at singing. And just when you thought it couldn't get any better, Bryan Adams, Tina Turner, Axl Rose, and 50 other hall of fame singers were to come out of the background and join in.

I could say-ayyyyy you're a dreamer...
     
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May 6, 2011, 10:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
That Bin Laden was a made up character in order for the US to manufacture fear and consent to go to war to kick start the economy and secure oil.
Good job, USofA, making even Al Quaida believe that Bin Laden was real.

When is the last time you heard someone admit that a fictional person really died

-t
     
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May 6, 2011, 10:34 AM
 
I know what we should do.

Please, hear me out.

Everyone... this Christmas. For all the parents out there. Instead of dressing up as Santa Claus, dress up as Bin Laden. Let's start a new chapter this coming Christmas. And instead of coming in on a sled, come in on a commercial airliner, maybe even crash into some stuff too for a nice effect.
     
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May 6, 2011, 10:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I'm listening. Who is he, then? Where's your evidence?
Still waiting. You keep making fun of people who do believe what evidence we have. If you want to persuade me, you'll have to show me evidence to the contrary, right? Otherwise, you're just talking random shit out of your ass.

Okay. So where is your evidence? Provide please.
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May 6, 2011, 10:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Please, hear me out.

Everyone... this Christmas. For all the parents out there. Instead of dressing up as Santa Claus, dress up as Bin Laden. Let's start a new chapter this coming Christmas. And instead of coming in on a sled, come in on a commercial airliner, maybe even crash into some stuff too for a nice effect.
Is this some sort of twisted Canuck humor, because I don't get it

-t
     
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May 6, 2011, 11:05 AM
 
I must have missed something. When did besson3c hack freudling's account?
     
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May 6, 2011, 11:07 AM
 
Sounds like someone's been reading The Bourne Identity or something.

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May 6, 2011, 11:17 AM
 
Surprise!

Al-Qaida vows revenge!!! Lock your doors, and change your laws to help curb the threat of imminent terrorism! I wrote my MP urging them to allow the government real-time access to my location data on my smartphone. Please do likewise and help protect ourselves from the terrorist threat that could get us at any time.

Al-Qaida confirms bin Laden death, vows revenge
     
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May 6, 2011, 11:19 AM
 


-t
     
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May 6, 2011, 11:38 AM
 
Now he's saying that Al-Qaida is also a made-up myth and in fact is a coordinated ploy by government(s).
/helpful
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May 6, 2011, 11:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Now he's saying that Al-Qaida is also a made-up myth and in fact is a coordinated ploy by government(s).
/helpful
I was driving through Moncton New Brunswick the other day, and I passed by this house with a sunken mid-level basement and saw this guy:

http://communitiesonline.homestead.c...ithtrolls.html
     
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May 6, 2011, 11:50 AM
 
I feel this thread creeping towards lock territory.
     
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May 6, 2011, 12:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Now he's saying that Al-Qaida is also a made-up myth and in fact is a coordinated ploy by government(s).
/helpful
Of course it is, ever herd of false flag operations. Look it up.
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May 6, 2011, 12:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Of course it is, ever herd of false flag operations. Look it up.
Existence of false flag operations ≠ Osama's killing was a false flag operation
     
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May 6, 2011, 12:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I was driving through Moncton New Brunswick the other day, and I passed by this house with a sunken mid-level basement and saw this guy:
Summary of Events:
  1. You claim Osama and Al-Qaida are all myths, presumably made up by a coordinated government attempt to unite everyone against Evil so they can take away our Freedoms.
  2. I ask, "Where's your proof? Do you have any at all?"
  3. You call me a troll.

That about good?
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May 6, 2011, 01:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Existence of false flag operations ≠ Osama's killing was a false flag operation
No I think 9/11 was a false flag operation and Osama was just the public figure used for the operation. I think hes been living a comfortable sheltered life as a former CIA agent for years and he died of natural causes due to age and health issues. The "kill" operation was a body recovery operation to dispose of the body and evidence.

Just Key Points
1) The Plane Crash site in Pennsylvania does not look like a plane crash. We have dozens of plane crash sites to compare against. What was left in the Pennsylvania site looked more like a missile impact missing all the evidence of a plane crash.
2) The Pentagon was also lacking the evidence of a plane impact. First no video has ever been released showing a plane crashing into the building. Chances are all the video records confiscated where to hide a missile smashing into the building. The approach and angle of the crash was impossible for a Jumbo Jet with out taking out polls and power lines in the way of the approach. The impact damage on the building was more consistent with a missile not a plane. The debree was also missing like Pennsylvania.
3) The way the Twin Towers collapsed was to perfect. Perhaps once is possible but 3 buildings collapsing in a perfect demolition fashion no way. Mini explosions seen through out the structure during collapse. Thermite residue and perfectly cut beams.
4) NATO failing 5 times in one day to intercept when they have trained for this for a decade and had a 100% success rate in training. Add to that 2 different war games going on that day making it impossible for NATO to respond. Al Qaida must have some people in real high places to get that kind of intel on US military operations to time a attack on the only day of the year that NATO would be unable to respond.

Aftermath
- Invasion of Iraq for links with 9/11 and weapons of mass destruction. Truth actually related to Iraq planning on moving OPEC to the Euro for Oil which would have been devastating to US economy
- American people scared and allows a wave of laws that took away a ton of rights and freedoms. Patriot act could never have been passed with out 9/11. Similar versions had been attempted for a decade.

Precedents
- USS Liberty attack by Israeli forces in a attempt to validate a reason for the US to invade Egypt in the 60's to change the middle east. Failed due to Russians witnessing the attack.
- In 1953, the U.S. and British-orchestrated Operation Ajax used "false-flag" and propaganda operations against the formerly democratically elected leader of Iran, Mohammed Mosaddeq. Information regarding the CIA-sponsored coup d'etat has been largely declassified and is available in the CIA archives
- The planned, but never executed, 1962 Operation Northwoods plot by the U.S. Department of Defense for a war with Cuba involved scenarios such as hijacking or shooting down passenger and military planes, sinking a U.S. ship in the vicinity of Cuba, burning crops, sinking a boat filled with Cuban refugees, attacks by alleged Cuban infiltrators inside the United States, and harassment of U.S. aircraft and shipping and the destruction of aerial drones by aircraft disguised as Cuban MiGs. These actions would be blamed on Cuba, and would be a pretext for an invasion of Cuba and the overthrow of Fidel Castro's communist government. It was authored by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but then rejected by President John F. Kennedy. This later came to light through the Freedom of Information Act and was publicized by James Bamford.
- The burning of German parliament for Hitler to pass through the enabling act which happens to look a lot like the Patriot act.

Just a few examples of False Flag operations with some of them sacrificing lives in order to achieve goals.

So you have motive, you have prior cases and you have a attack that nothing makes sense on.
( Last edited by Athens; May 6, 2011 at 01:25 PM. )
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May 6, 2011, 01:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
No I think 9/11 was a false flag operation and Osama was just the public figure used for the operation. I think hes been living a comfortable sheltered life as a former CIA agent for years and he died of natural causes due to age and health issues. The "kill" operation was a body recovery operation to dispose of the body and evidence.
Heh, you missed the point completely. You're making wild claims without backing them up.
     
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May 6, 2011, 01:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Existence of false flag operations ≠ Osama's killing was a false flag operation
Show us Osama's dead body. Oh ya, it was buried at sea.

As the fable goes, Osama was unarmed, yet they killed him anyway. Why wouldn't they take him alive? Now they vow revenge. The story of terror continues. Let me guess, our next war is going to be with Pakistan.

Funny, out of nowhere we 'kill' Bin. And the timing... just as we're pulling out of Afghanistan and just as Barack's approval ratings are in the crapper. Victory for the US! We'll buy the story!
( Last edited by freudling; May 6, 2011 at 01:19 PM. )
     
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May 6, 2011, 01:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Show us Osama's dead body. Oh ya, it was buried at sea.
Like you'd believe whatever proof they trotted out.
     
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May 6, 2011, 01:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Heh, you missed the point completely. You're making wild claims without backing them up.
Go back to the post, was still typing it out when you replied.
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May 6, 2011, 01:34 PM
 


"Remember: it's not a lie, if you believe it."

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May 6, 2011, 02:26 PM
 
In other words your faith in a ruling establishment blinds you to contradictory evidence which points to other possibilities. Important facts about critical thinking. Its the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action. Almost nothing in this world is as it appears. Everything is a agenda with a end goal and a lot of work is done to mask end goals. You can either accept everything at face value and believe its a perfect wonderful world or you can critically analyze every action every moment and come to conclusions based on critical thinking which is more likely to be closer to the truth.
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May 6, 2011, 02:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
In other words your faith in a ruling establishment blinds you to contradictory evidence which points to other possibilities. Important facts about critical thinking. Its the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action. Almost nothing in this world is as it appears. Everything is a agenda with a end goal and a lot of work is done to mask end goals. You can either accept everything at face value and believe its a perfect wonderful world or you can critically analyze every action every moment and come to conclusions based on critical thinking which is more likely to be closer to the truth.

This is the funniest post ever, thanks!

Wait, you're not serious, right?
     
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May 6, 2011, 02:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Almost nothing in this world is as it appears. Everything is a agenda with a end goal and a lot of work is done to mask end goals. You can either accept everything at face value and believe its a perfect wonderful world or you can critically analyze every action every moment and come to conclusions based on critical thinking which is more likely to be closer to the truth.
And here is where we diverge. Strategic thinking is hard. Very few people or institutions are any good at it, the U.S. government in particular. Most things in the world are as they appear, we just have some things hidden from us. But it is unusual for the hidden things to outright contradict the visible things. You appear to have as much blind faith in your conspiracy theories (your "evidence" posted above is simply a restatement of your hypotheses) as you accuse others of having in the U.S. government. The world is not "perfect" -- far from it. It is messy precisely because most things are as they appear, people are flawed, and institutions act with imperfect information and execution.

Conspiracy theories are psychologically comforting because they provide a premise of perfect order in an imperfect world.

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May 6, 2011, 02:43 PM
 
Ok just stick to the evidence. Explain the contradictions in the visible public evidence of the events of 9/11. which does relate to Osama being a terrorist or a fall guy.
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May 6, 2011, 02:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
And here is where we diverge. Strategic thinking is hard. Very few people or institutions are any good at it, the U.S. government in particular. Most things in the world are as they appear, we just have some things hidden from us. But it is unusual for the hidden things to outright contradict the visible things. You appear to have as much blind faith in your conspiracy theories (your "evidence" posted above is simply a restatement of your hypotheses) as you accuse others of having in the U.S. government. The world is not "perfect" -- far from it. It is messy precisely because most things are as they appear, people are flawed, and institutions act with imperfect information and execution.

Conspiracy theories are psychologically comforting because they provide a premise of perfect order in an imperfect world.
Why when having a discussion about surreptitious covert action by big business and government are their people like you who pull out the conspiracy theory label?

Governments and companies are corrupt and lie to people, period. End of story. It's been happening since forever and will continue as such. There is no conspiracy, it's just the truth. Period.

I'm not on here to engage in simplistic talking points about how the real world, outside of the MacNN universe, operates. I don't care what any of you believe. And who gives a shit what I believe. I'm just fascinated what people are willing to believe, and how quickly they are willing to do so. It's not just about Bin Laden, but about governments who have manipulated and lied to people in the past and how people have bought into it.
     
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May 6, 2011, 02:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Why when having a discussion about serruptitious cover action by big business and government are their people like you who pull out the conspiracy theory label?
That's a question that seems to answer itself.

Governments and companies are corrupt and lie to people, period. End of story. It's been happening since forever and will continue as such. There is no conspiracy, it's just the truth. Period.
I agree, institutions lie. I don't claim otherwise. That's not the same as a conspiracy of action, though.

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May 6, 2011, 02:46 PM
 
What's more believable.

That the US concocted not only a massive attack on its own country, killing thousands of its own civilians, but also invented a terror organization and manufactured an evil man as leader of that organization. Then went to war to grab oil from a country that doesn't even have that much of it, spending trillions in the process. Then waits until almost noone cares about OBL and decides to fake his killing to get a Democrat re-elected (since a Republican started the war).

or

An actual Muslim Extremist organization, led by a smart and powerful leader, planned for years and years to smash 747s into the WTC as a suicide attack. We invade Afghanistan to eliminate the organization, and OBL flees to a neighboring country to go into reclusive hiding for a decade relying on his close-knit band of brothers to keep him hidden and safe. Then we finally get info about where he is and take him out. Not being a wicked county ourselves, we don't parade his corpse around our streets and bury him at sea within the time-frame alloted by his religion.

Which sounds more believable? That is, which sounds more believable to people who aren't prone to believing the stupidest shit in the first place?
     
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May 6, 2011, 02:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Why when having a discussion about surreptitious covert action by big business and government are their people like you who pull out the conspiracy theory label?

Governments and companies are corrupt and lie to people, period. End of story. It's been happening since forever and will continue as such. There is no conspiracy, it's just the truth. Period..
con·spir·a·cy   
[kuhn-spir-uh-see] Show IPA
–noun, plural -cies.
1.
the act of conspiring.
2.
an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3.
a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose
The idea that 9/11 was a government-planned attack with Osama set up as a fall-guy fits definitions two and three perfectly; it's EXACTLY a conspiracy.
( Last edited by Laminar; May 6, 2011 at 03:08 PM. )
     
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May 6, 2011, 03:02 PM
 
     
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May 6, 2011, 03:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
What's more believable.

That the US concocted not only a massive attack on its own country, killing thousands of its own civilians, but also invented a terror organization and manufactured an evil man as leader of that organization. Then went to war to grab oil from a country that doesn't even have that much of it, spending trillions in the process. Then waits until almost noone cares about OBL and decides to fake his killing to get a Democrat re-elected (since a Republican started the war).

or

An actual Muslim Extremist organization, led by a smart and powerful leader, planned for years and years to smash 747s into the WTC as a suicide attack. We invade Afghanistan to eliminate the organization, and OBL flees to a neighboring country to go into reclusive hiding for a decade relying on his close-knit band of brothers to keep him hidden and safe. Then we finally get info about where he is and take him out. Not being a wicked county ourselves, we don't parade his corpse around our streets and bury him at sea within the time-frame alloted by his religion.

Which sounds more believable? That is, which sounds more believable to people who aren't prone to believing the stupidest shit in the first place?
Let me fix that up in a different more honest perspective.

What is more believable, the US government concocted a massive attack against itself killing a couple thousand people and invented a terror group to inspire fear in its people to help pass laws that would otherwise never been passable and to use the fear of the people to allow the invasion of a country that had nothing to do with the attacks but was planning on hurting the US economy by backing oil with the Euro vs the American dollar. A country that was very defiant of the US. Spending Trillions of dollars on US corporations who helped fund the political campaigns with a war.

OR

Low tech Muslim extremist organization working out of impoverished nations half way around the world, practically unheard of until this event run by a former CIA agent collaborator knew which was the perfect day to attack the US, hijacked 5 plans undetected and took over 4 of the 5 planes and crashed them into buildings and it was just by chance they never got shoot down because of secret NATO war games. By chance 3 buildings collapse perfectly, the plane that hit the Pentagon must have been flown by a ace pilot to achieve the hit he did with out smashing into obstacles in the way and both the pentagon plane and the one intended for the white house crashed with such impact that all bodies and even the engines are all vaporized unlike any other plane crashes.

Which sounds more believable?


Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
The idea that 9/11 was a government-planned attack with Osama set up as a fall-guy fits definitions two and three perfect; it's EXACTLY a conspiracy.

For the record im not saying its not a conspiracy, it is and its a theory because its not proven. I'm debating which is more plausible what we are being told to believe happened or the conspiracy. The evidence says the Government is a liar. Some of the evidence points to a conspiracy.


Originally Posted by rambo47 View Post
LOVE IT ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT
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May 6, 2011, 03:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Let me fix that up in a different more honest perspective.

What is more believable, the US government concocted a massive attack against itself killing a couple thousand people and invented a terror group to inspire fear in its people to help pass laws that would otherwise never been passable and to use the fear of the people to allow the invasion of a country that had nothing to do with the attacks but was planning on hurting the US economy by backing oil with the Euro vs the American dollar. A country that was very defiant of the US. Spending Trillions of dollars on US corporations who helped fund the political campaigns with a war.

OR

Low tech Muslim extremist organization working out of impoverished nations half way around the world, practically unheard of until this event run by a former CIA agent collaborator knew which was the perfect day to attack the US, hijacked 5 plans undetected and took over 4 of the 5 planes and crashed them into buildings and it was just by chance they never got shoot down because of secret NATO war games. By chance 3 buildings collapse perfectly, the plane that hit the Pentagon must have been flown by a ace pilot to achieve the hit he did with out smashing into obstacles in the way and both the pentagon plane and the one intended for the white house crashed with such impact that all bodies and even the engines are all vaporized unlike any other plane crashes.

Which sounds more believable?
The second one, of course your dishonest phrasing is splattered all over that post like a pornstar's back. First off the term 'buildings collapsed perfectly' is so hilarious i don't even need to touch it. Yes, they collapsed with all the grace of a ballerina. Also, hijacking a plane mid-flight and nailing a building isn't exactly flying to the moon, that also makes plenty of sense. Who flew them them, in your tinfoil-hat-wearing opinion? American pilots willing to die to start one of the flimsiest conspiracies in history?

Now on to this 'vaporized' nonsense. Stuff like this makes me certain all you have watched is the Loose Change video and believed every second of it. So let me help you by saying no information they present is fact-checked, within context, or cited by any reputable source. Who says there was no debri? Official statements or a grainy video taken by a parking lot camera?

Secondly, a body can easily be burned to ashes in the fires of thousands of gallons of jet-fuel. Do you think otherwise?

I won't refute the government used 9/11 as a tool to pass some pretty draconian laws and in general uses our fear of terrorism to push their agenda. But IN NO WAY does anyone with HALF A BRAIN believe that our own country concocted the entire attack and leveled two gigantic buildings to pass laws. That sort of conspiracy crap is as ludicrous as any theory on aliens building the pyramids or the US faking the moon landing. It has no evidence, no foot in reality, and only proves some people will be SO GULLIBLE that they fall for an even more ridiculous story than they claim is false.

With this post I can assure you I am done 'debating' this 9/11 conspiracy crap. I got sick of this nonsense in 02.
     
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May 6, 2011, 03:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
The idea that 9/11 was a government-planned attack with Osama set up as a fall-guy fits definitions two and three perfectly; it's EXACTLY a conspiracy.
First off, there is nothing wrong with the term 'conspiracy'. I never had any issue with anyone labeling something like this, or any other government bullshit covert action a conspiracy. My response was in relation to the label 'conspiracy theorist', which is a negative label placed on people.
     
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May 6, 2011, 03:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
The second one, of course your dishonest phrasing is splattered all over that post like a pornstar's back. First off the term 'buildings collapsed perfectly' is so hilarious i don't even need to touch it. Yes, they collapsed with all the grace of a ballerina. Also, hijacking a plane mid-flight and nailing a building isn't exactly flying to the moon, that also makes plenty of sense. Who flew them them, in your tinfoil-hat-wearing opinion? American pilots willing to die to start one of the flimsiest conspiracies in history?

Now on to this 'vaporized' nonsense. Stuff like this makes me certain all you have watched is the Loose Change video and believed every second of it. So let me help you by saying no information they present is fact-checked, within context, or cited by any reputable source. Who says there was no debri? Official statements or a grainy video taken by a parking lot camera?

Secondly, a body can easily be burned to ashes in the fires of thousands of gallons of jet-fuel. Do you think otherwise?

I won't refute the government used 9/11 as a tool to pass some pretty draconian laws and in general uses our fear of terrorism to push their agenda. But IN NO WAY does anyone with HALF A BRAIN believe that our own country concocted the entire attack and leveled two gigantic buildings to pass laws. That sort of conspiracy crap is as ludicrous as any theory on aliens building the pyramids or the US faking the moon landing. It has no evidence, no foot in reality, and only proves some people will be SO GULLIBLE that they fall for an even more ridiculous story than they claim is false.

With this post I can assure you I am done 'debating' this 9/11 conspiracy crap. I got sick of this nonsense in 02.
My second one was no more dishonest then yours. Thats why I said in a different perspective. You think im Gullible for looking at the evidence, I think your Gullible for ignoring the evidence. We are kinda at a impass here. You asked who was willing to fly the planes into the buildings. Well it could have been automated. Empty planes. And I do not dispute that a body can be burned to ashes from Jet Fuel but no other plane crash in history has left no body parts at all (note talking about the pentagon and Flight 93. I wouldn't expect any bodies found at the towers identifiable to a passenger of the plane. But no plane crash has every vaporized entire engines made of titanium and other components of a plane such as what is the official release for Flight 93 and the Pentagon. A lot of stuff does not add up to what would be expected had it not been fake.

We still have the issue of prior examples of such tactics being used to achieve goals. Hitler is the prime example. Is it more unbelievable because it was such a large scale deception or that the act was on the American people killing thousands of innocent people. You could argue I want to believe because I hated the bush administration so much. I could argue you don't want to believe because its such a terrible possibility you don't want to accept such a thing. Fine Look at the evidence only and try and come to honest conclusions about it being what is expected under such a event or that something is wrong.
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May 6, 2011, 03:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
That's a question that seems to answer itself.



I agree, institutions lie. I don't claim otherwise. That's not the same as a conspiracy of action, though.
SpaceMonkey. Lets stop the pontificating. If you seriously, honestly, don't believe that governments and big companies lie, steal, cheat, and kill for their own gain, then you simply do not live in reality.
     
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May 6, 2011, 03:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
SpaceMonkey. Lets stop the pontificating. If you seriously, honestly, don't believe that governments and big companies lie, steal, cheat, and kill for their own gain, then you simply do not live in reality.
Again, I do not dispute that this occurs. But when you are promoting a specific conspiracy theory, it is not enough to simply offer "well, look, governments lie all the time!" as sufficient evidence for demanding that the theory be actively considered. Of course, conspiracy theories depend on this, because the more the evidence doesn't add up, the more a "cover up" must be in order.

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May 6, 2011, 03:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I won't refute the government used 9/11 as a tool to pass some pretty draconian laws and in general uses our fear of terrorism to push their agenda. But IN NO WAY does anyone with HALF A BRAIN believe that our own country concocted the entire attack and leveled two gigantic buildings to pass laws. That sort of conspiracy crap is as ludicrous as any theory on aliens building the pyramids or the US faking the moon landing. It has no evidence, no foot in reality, and only proves some people will be SO GULLIBLE that they fall for an even more ridiculous story than they claim is false.
The only thing gullible and with perhaps slightly less than half a brain is you. Forget about Bin Laden, clearly you've made up your 'mind'. And nobody really gives a shit what you think anyway.

But here's a question: What exactly is so hard to believe about a government killing its own people to advance its own agendas and corporate interests? What don't people like you not understand about how people don't really give a shit about you, including your own government, the people making decisions.

Terrorism, the threat of it, both real and imagined, is the ultimate tool that a government can use to manufacture fear and consent. They can infringe on your constitution with an appeal to national security, because it will 'protect' you from
'evil boogymen'. The constant, largely 'invisible' threat can be stretched for years and years to get the most possible mileage out of it. It'll give governments an excuse to go to war with anyone they choose if those people are perceived and said to be supporting the evil boogeymen.

Let's look at history.

It's public record that the US government has stated that there was a 'likely conspiracy' on behalf of the US government to kill JFK. The US government blew the brains out of their own president.

The US murdered thousands by dropping an atomic bomb on Japan.

The Clinton administration along with the Canadian government made a public apology about those surreptitiously recruited into mind control experiments in the 60s.

Hitler burned his own parliament.

Nixon was as corrupt as anyone else.

The Bay of Pigs. High ranking US military officials wanted to lure the US/JFK into a war with Cuba by staging an attack with "US Forces" in Cuba, then leaving those troops out to dry for capture by Castro.

Ya, go take your half a brain comments and gullible BS and go get out of the house and get some sun.
     
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May 6, 2011, 04:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Again, I do not dispute that this occurs. But when you are promoting a specific conspiracy theory, it is not enough to simply offer "well, look, governments lie all the time!" as sufficient evidence for demanding that the theory be actively considered. Of course, conspiracy theories depend on this, because the more the evidence doesn't add up, the more a "cover up" must be in order.
Osama Bin Laden is real. It's a victory for the US that he's now been killed. The story is over. And now with a new threat of more terrorism, we must continue to go to war with supporters of Al-Qaida. Sign me up. Good night everyone.
     
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May 6, 2011, 04:16 PM
 
I don't see how dropping the Atomic Bomb on Japan fits into any of this...
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May 6, 2011, 04:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
I don't see how dropping the Atomic Bomb on Japan fits into any of this...
My point is that people seem to be in disbelief that governments are corrupt and have killed innocent people in the past to advance their own agendas. That the explanation of the US government killing their own people (911) is simply not believable or a good explanation of the events. That there is no way the US government would ever do that. It's impossible to accept that as a possible explanation of events. That they're not capable or willing to do that...
     
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May 6, 2011, 04:26 PM
 
I think its a poor example to further your arguments. I agree with your argument but the Atomic bomb fails to add to it. It was a time of war, and in war you will have civilian casualties. And the ferocity of the Japanese people and the disciplines they had made them a formidable challenge with conventional weapons. The war could have lasted a lot longer with a lot more causalities on both sides had it not been for the bomb. The USS Liberty incident is a great example of sacrificing the lives of your own solders for a political gain. Especially more so as now some of the Israeli pilots involved in that have spoken out a bit.
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May 6, 2011, 04:46 PM
 
Bottom line, If 9/11 was a false flag op, it makes Obama just as big a tool as W.
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May 6, 2011, 04:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by fruedling
Osama Bin Laden is real. It's a victory for the US that he's now been killed. The story is over. And now with a new threat of more terrorism, we must continue to go to war with supporters of Al-Qaida. Sign me up. Good night everyone.
Or Osama was responsible for planning the worst terrorist attack on the United States in history, and killing him is great but due to al Qaida's decentralized model the threat of retaliation is real. That's not any crazier than your conclusion.

Originally Posted by freudling View Post
It's public record that the US government has stated that there was a 'likely conspiracy' on behalf of the US government to kill JFK. The US government blew the brains out of their own president.
Source? If you are talking about the report of the Select Committee on Assassinations of the U.S. House of Representatives (1979), I think you misreading its conclusions. It stated that Oswald likely acted as part of a conspiracy, largely on the basis of concluding that there were likely two gunmen. In other words, a conspiracy in the most general sense of two or more people plotting together. It did not say that U.S. government agencies or personnel were involved or that the conspiracy was "on behalf of the U.S. government." It stated that "agencies and departments of the U.S. Government performed with varying degrees of competency in the fulfillment of their duties," and that the possibility of a conspiracy and an investigation into Oswald's associates was not adequately pursued by the Warren Commission.

Link to report: http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk...mittee-report/

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May 6, 2011, 05:47 PM
 
Why would the US government kill JFK? He was the only reason we didn't get blown to hell in the Cuban Missile Crisis?
     
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May 6, 2011, 07:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
My second one was no more dishonest then yours. Thats why I said in a different perspective. You think im Gullible for looking at the evidence, I think your Gullible for ignoring the evidence. We are kinda at a impass here.
     
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May 6, 2011, 07:24 PM
 
Carry on, guys, this is good stuff.



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May 7, 2011, 01:12 AM
 
You know what I want to know? Who thought of the name Osama Bin Laden? It's catchy. Guy's probably dead now... but cool name!!!
     
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May 7, 2011, 07:57 AM
 
Does anyone remember seeing or hearing a recording of Bin Laden actually taking credit for 9/11? I don't remember ever seeing it or even hearing it referred to at the time. I don't recall any explanation or evidence whatsoever of his involvement. They just kept saying he did it and not why they thought he did.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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May 7, 2011, 08:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
This is the funniest post ever, thanks!

Wait, you're not serious, right?
Serious enough to have found and posted verbatim; the definition of critical thinking.
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May 7, 2011, 09:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Does anyone remember seeing or hearing a recording of Bin Laden actually taking credit for 9/11? I don't remember ever seeing it or even hearing it referred to at the time. I don't recall any explanation or evidence whatsoever of his involvement. They just kept saying he did it and not why they thought he did.
So you missed the coverage and video footage of the meeting of OBL with his lieutenants discussing the success of the operation in November 2001? Taking credit? Oh... he took credit and in fact explained how the "martyrdom" mission was sold to the perpetrators of it and how the towers collapsed in many respects according to design.
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