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Osama Bin Laden: Myth or Reality? (Page 3)
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May 7, 2011, 08:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Why would the US government kill JFK? He was the only reason we didn't get blown to hell in the Cuban Missile Crisis?
That's just it, it doesn't matter why. All you have to do is take a collection of questions and mold and shape them into a conspiracy. None of the theorists will agree on the methods, means, or ends to the game, but that's okay because the purpose of conspiracy theories isn't about answers. It's about questions.
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May 7, 2011, 08:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Oh... he took credit and in fact explained how the "martyrdom" mission was sold to the perpetrators of it and how the towers collapsed in many respects according to design.
He also pointed out that the towers collapsed more dramatically than he had expected. He was trained as a. Mechanical engineer, after all.

It's kind of hard to take "he was made up" at all seriously though. Long before he was in the public's consciousness, he was being watched because of his completely un-secret organizing of anti-Western activities, including looking back at his upbringing and education. A real person, no doubt about it. And a very bad human being, too.

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May 7, 2011, 11:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
ya, go take your half a brain comments and gullible BS and go get out of the house and get some sun.
I work outside for a living, what do you do? Beside, of course, believing retarded theories.
     
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May 10, 2011, 01:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I work outside for a living, what do you do? Beside, of course, believing retarded theories.
I can be found shaking my thang on Sunset Blvd. So I guess I work outside too.
     
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May 12, 2011, 01:26 AM
 
Someone sent me this today. I haven't watched it. Anyone seen it?

Loose Change:

YouTube - 911 Loose Change (full-length)
     
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May 12, 2011, 05:53 AM
 
I just caught this today. Anyone seen it?

Star Wars Episode IV:

Star Wars - Episode IV (original Trailer 1977)
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May 12, 2011, 06:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Someone sent me this today. I haven't watched it. Anyone seen it?

Loose Change:

YouTube - 911 Loose Change (full-length)
There are 3 revised versions of "Loose Change" after this one. Charlie Sheen is a big fan if that tells you anything.
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May 12, 2011, 06:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
I just caught this today. Anyone seen it?

Star Wars Episode IV:

Star Wars - Episode IV (original Trailer 1977)
The Empire had its own terrorist problem a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.

(Read the comments! )
     
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May 12, 2011, 07:45 AM
 
So, here's a thought for you:

1) Bin Laden dead!
2) "There'll be backlash!!!!!! Raise alert levels!!!!"
3) Oooo. Since (1) and (2) are true, we'd better extend the USA PATRIOT Act, which is due to expire on May 29, 2011.

Convenient timing, wouldn't you say?
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May 12, 2011, 07:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
The Empire had its own terrorist problem a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.

(Read the comments! )
They are possibly the most hilarious thing I've read this year!

Reach out with your fiscal discipline, Luke . . . .
Can anybody explain to me why in some publications his name is spelled "Obi-Wan" and in others it is spelled "Ubi-Wan"?
He should have brought before the galactic counsel, instead of just beeing killed.
Until body I see, belive it I will not.
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May 12, 2011, 10:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
So, here's a thought for you:

1) Bin Laden dead!
2) "There'll be backlash!!!!!! Raise alert levels!!!!"
3) Oooo. Since (1) and (2) are true, we'd better extend the USA PATRIOT Act, which is due to expire on May 29, 2011.

Convenient timing, wouldn't you say?
Right, because we never would have extended the Patriot Act with Osama still on the loose.

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May 12, 2011, 12:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Right, because we never would have extended the Patriot Act with Osama still on the loose.
No, the point is to put right back in people's faces the threat of terrorism via the killing of Obama where his followers vow revenge. It's renewed fear and threats.
     
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May 12, 2011, 12:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
No, the point is to put right back in people's faces the threat of terrorism via the killing of Obama where his followers vow revenge. It's renewed fear and threats.
You need to articulate a practical effect that motivates the alleged conspiracy. If the idea is that it enables counter-terrorism legislation, clearly killing Osama is unnecessary for that effect, as we've seen in the past. And anyway, with a Republican-controlled House and plenty of Dems in Congress worrying about their prospects in 2012, does Obama really need to worry about inventing a complicated excuse for renewing the Patriot Act? Silliness.

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May 12, 2011, 12:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
So, here's a thought for you:

1) Bin Laden dead!
2) "There'll be backlash!!!!!! Raise alert levels!!!!"
3) Oooo. Since (1) and (2) are true, we'd better extend the USA PATRIOT Act, which is due to expire on May 29, 2011.

Convenient timing, wouldn't you say?
Dam, and I thought it was to take the focus away from the Birth Certificate. The Patriot acts expiration date definitely adds fuel to the theory this is a fake operation. The timing is just to close.


Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
You need to articulate a practical effect that motivates the alleged conspiracy. If the idea is that it enables counter-terrorism legislation, clearly killing Osama is unnecessary for that effect, as we've seen in the past. And anyway, with a Republican-controlled House and plenty of Dems in Congress worrying about their prospects in 2012, does Obama really need to worry about inventing a complicated excuse for renewing the Patriot Act? Silliness.
Complicated, this was a lot less complicated then orchestrating the 9/11 attacks which was to create the dam act in the first place. This was childs play. Send in helicopters to a compound near a military base in Pakistan, avoid detection from the Pakistani authorities and kill some one, then dump the body at sea. Im starting to to think they flew in there with Pakistani's knowing exploded some bombs and left behind a helicopter tail as physical evidence for being there, shot up a building a bit and went home. Its convenient that it was right beside a military instillation and Osama was undetected all these years. The bounty on his head would corrupted some one to turn him in long ago. I think Osama has been in US custody for a long time, some dark dungeon.
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May 12, 2011, 12:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Complicated, this was a lot less complicated then...
A lot more complicated than doing nothing, and Congress renewing the Patriot Act anyway. Explain to me why Congress would be less likely to renew the Patriot Act with the world's most wanted terrorist still at large.

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May 12, 2011, 12:52 PM
 
Its not about congress its about the people. If the people do not support the Patriot Act then those in government lose popularity with the people. Who wants to bet that public support for the Patriot Act is up because of the fear of more terrorist attacks now its fresh in peoples minds again.
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May 12, 2011, 01:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Its not about congress its about the people. If the people do not support the Patriot Act then those in government lose popularity with the people. Who wants to bet that public support for the Patriot Act is up because of the fear of more terrorist attacks now its fresh in peoples minds again.
Who wants to bet that it never went down enough in the first place?
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1893/pol...ot-act-renewal
(Summary: as polled in Feb. 2011, more people supported the Act than in 2004 or 2006, more Democrats support it than before, and it still enjoys Republican support)

I suppose this is part of the conspiracy, too:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/13/ny...-say.html?_r=3
( Last edited by SpaceMonkey; May 12, 2011 at 01:16 PM. )

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May 12, 2011, 01:19 PM
 
“He’s a very good kid,” J. Ferhani, 51, said. “He got involved with a bad kid. He’s a naive person. He has a very good heart, but if somebody tries to tell him something he always believes it.”

He said that his son, 26, lived in the family’s basement apartment, and had quit his job in selling cosmetics at Saks Fifth Avenue a couple of years ago, and was pursuing opportunities as a fashion model.
How fearsome is that terrorist
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May 12, 2011, 01:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
How fearsome is that terrorist
I'd call him fierce. Probably trained by Mugatu.


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May 12, 2011, 02:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Who wants to bet that it never went down enough in the first place?
Public Remains Divided Over the Patriot Act - Pew Research Center
(Summary: as polled in Feb. 2011, more people supported the Act than in 2004 or 2006, more Democrats support it than before, and it still enjoys Republican support)

I suppose this is part of the conspiracy, too:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/13/ny...-say.html?_r=3
If you seriously believe that killing Osama with the media buzzing about "revenge" from Al Qaida does not renew fears amongst people about the threat of terrorism, you simply do not live in reality.
( Last edited by freudling; May 12, 2011 at 03:45 PM. )
     
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May 12, 2011, 03:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
the killing of Obama
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
that killing Obama
I can't tell if this is on purpose or not.
     
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May 12, 2011, 03:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
If you seriously believe that killing Obama with the media buzzing about "revenge" from Al Qaida does not renew fears amongst people about the threat of terrorism, you simply do not live in reality.
That may well be, but what I'm arguing is that it isn't necessary to "renew fears" in order to renew the Patriot Act because the support was there regardless, as shown in the February poll. In the absence of a need, there would be no reason for the administration to take the risk of embarking on the conspiracy you describe. You have yet to demonstrate a motive.

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May 12, 2011, 03:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
That may well be, but what I'm arguing is that it isn't necessary to "renew fears" in order to renew the Patriot Act because the support was there regardless, as shown in the February poll. In the absence of a need, there would be no reason for the administration to take the risk of embarking on the conspiracy you describe. You have yet to demonstrate a motive.
Forget the Patriot Act. It's one of many facets. And it's not just America either. Manufacturing fear and consent is a tool for governments and big business for very obvious reasons. Period. End of story.
     
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May 12, 2011, 03:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Forget the Patriot Act. It's one of many facets. And it's not just America either. Manufacturing fear and consent is a tool for governments and big business for very obvious reasons. Period. End of story.
Hardly the end of the supposed story. "Fear" in your story is an intermediary objective, a means for obtaining an outcome. Consent for what? What is this practical, desired outcome? If it's so obvious, you shouldn't have any trouble explaining what it is.

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May 12, 2011, 05:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
No, the point is to put right back in people's faces the threat of terrorism via the killing of Obama where his followers vow revenge. It's renewed fear and threats.
Is there any evidence the US has ratcheted up the threat level as a result of catching the boogeyman? If what you're saying is true then you should see some concerted effort to exploit OBL's capture with heightened awareness of some sort right?
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May 12, 2011, 06:16 PM
 
What is so hard to understand here? What is it with people who actually believe the media. You believe what the media spins out, and it's sad. Humanity:

After all of the wars. The lies. The killing. The widespread corruption both in government and in business. Why is it so hard to understand the concept of governments, business, media... creating fear to get consent from people to... wait for it...

1. Continue to spend on and have militaries;
2. Sell you a way of life, and a set of products and services;
3. Consent to: Go. To. War.

You read the media, complete with picture slideshows, quotes... like you'll believe anything. Do I know for certain that Bin is not real and is made up? No. But based on all of the evidence... the history of corruption and wars within and between governments and big business, it all points to him being a made up character in order for the US to have an excuse to go to war with Afghanistan, then in Iraq... then to invade the constitution of people.

~3500 dead at the WTC. Hundreds of thousands dead, and trillions spent for the war in Afghanistan.

A country now with a tanked dollar, ~9% unemployment rate, and more houses foreclosed on than girls Wilt Chamberlain's slept with.

There is no conspiracy. None. Zero. Believing what the media tells you and an appeal to patriotism is just stupid. Period. End of story.
     
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May 12, 2011, 06:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
What is so hard to understand here? What is it with people who actually believe the media. You believe what the media spins out, and it's sad.
Hmm... media. Where is it you're getting all this information again, osmosis?

Of course, throughout the long and well-documented history of alternative sources of media and related sensationalism, it is only the established media you immediately do not trust. Fair enough, but you see it's not enough to simply say; "they're doing this for this reason and that for that reason and it's all a conspiracy and you're lapping it up because you're gullible" when you have absolutely zero, other than your gut, to substantiate the claim.

After all of the tabloids. The fabrications. The slander. The man with the END IS NEAR sign on the street corner. Why is it so hard to understand the concept of paranoia, conspiracy theorists, and sensationalized media... creating fear to get consent from people to... wait for it...

1. Buy their bullshxt
2. their t-shirts
3. their charm bracelets
4. x-ray vision glasses
5. chemtrail vaccines
6. electronic bug detectors

If this is for oil (other than the snake variety), show me the friggin' oil already. If that's for fear, show me the friggin' exploitation of fear. It's really quite simple. If you can't, then your alternative sources of media are likely just as full of shxt, you'll never be satisfied with answers because the questions are more fun, and you're lapping it up just as readily as anyone else is lapping up their sources.

*edited for softening of rhetoric.
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May 12, 2011, 07:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Hmm... media. Where is it you're getting all this information again, osmosis?

Of course, throughout the long and well-documented history of alternative sources of media and related sensationalism, it is only the established media you immediately do not trust. Fair enough, but you see it's not enough to simply say; "they're doing this for this reason and that for that reason and it's all a conspiracy and you're lapping it up because you're gullible" when you have absolutely zero, other than your gut, to substantiate the claim.

After all of the tabloids. The fabrications. The slander. The man with the END IS NEAR sign on the street corner. Why is it so hard to understand the concept of paranoia, conspiracy theorists, and sensationalized media... creating fear to get consent from people to... wait for it...

1. Buy their bullshxt
2. their t-shirts
3. their charm bracelets
4. x-ray vision glasses
5. chemtrail vaccines
6. electronic bug detectors

If this is for oil (other than the snake variety), show me the friggin' oil already. If that's for fear, show me the friggin' exploitation of fear. It's really quite simple. If you can't, then your alternative sources of media are likely just as full of shxt, you'll never be satisfied with answers because the questions are more fun, and you're lapping it up just as readily as anyone else is lapping up their sources.

*edited for softening of rhetoric.
It is enough. Governments and big business cannot be trusted. Period. End of story.
     
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May 13, 2011, 09:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Do I know for certain that Bin is not real and is made up? No. But based on all of the evidence...
Still waiting for this part. The evidence, not the vague statements about how governments are corrupt so there must be a conspiracy here.

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May 13, 2011, 09:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
It is enough. Governments and big business cannot be trusted. Period. End of story.
They can be trusted to do whatever is in their own best interests. Yay capitalism.
     
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May 13, 2011, 09:32 AM
 
That's not trust, that's common sense.
     
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May 13, 2011, 09:33 AM
 
Well, yes. But it's what we can expect.
     
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May 13, 2011, 09:37 AM
 
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May 13, 2011, 10:00 AM
 
What a cutting remark!
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May 13, 2011, 10:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Still waiting for this part. The evidence, not the vague statements about how governments are corrupt so there must be a conspiracy here.
Still waiting for evidence that Osama and guys with box cutters did the WTC. And I don't mean YouTube videos, picture slideshows on CNN, and articles in the New York Times with 'quotes'.

Show me real evidence.
     
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May 13, 2011, 10:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Still waiting for evidence that Osama and guys with box cutters did the WTC. And I don't mean YouTube videos, picture slideshows on CNN, and articles in the New York Times with 'quotes'.

Show me real evidence.
Here, read this:
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

You are the one who is claiming that the accepted, documented narrative is not true. Don't whine about the fact that your claims require additional evidence.

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May 13, 2011, 01:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Here, read this:
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

You are the one who is claiming that the accepted, documented narrative is not true. Don't whine about the fact that your claims require additional evidence.
Governments and big business lie, steal, cheat, and kill, over, and over, and over, and over, and over... Period. End of story.

I will not accept any 'official' investigation or report by these same people. Ever.

We're to believe the Warren Commission on the JFK assassination. We're to believe that there's no manufacturing of fear (Operation Northwoods). We're to believe that wars are fought for idealistic purposes (Bay of Pigs, the Cold War and the MIC...): they're all bullshit for power, money, and control.

Boogeymen are not real.

Period. End of story.

But hey, guess what? Let's just believe it all, ok? Everything. There's no problem with any of the government's official story. Anyone who questions it is labeled a conspiracy theorist. How could our government do something like this? Why? What's the point?

Apparently, they found a hijacker's passport, Satam Al Suqami, by the WTC after the crash! Everything was incinerated, but not the fire and bullet proof passport. Hey, he could have opened up the plane emergency exit and thrown it out! Can you believe it!!! I can!!!

YouTube - CNN - Hijacker's passport found in WTC rubble Saturday
     
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May 13, 2011, 01:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Governments and big business lie, steal, cheat, and kill, over, and over, and over, and over, and over... Period. End of story.

I will not accept any 'official' investigation or report by these same people. Ever.
You don't have to. There are endnotes. You know, documentation and stuff. Still waiting on that from your end BTW.
( Last edited by SpaceMonkey; May 13, 2011 at 01:33 PM. )

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May 13, 2011, 01:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I will not accept any 'official' investigation or report by these same people. Ever.
So, you'll believe random conspiracy theorists on the internet then? Or the same media that you rail on and on about? Who's the sheep here?
     
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May 13, 2011, 01:23 PM
 
I can't wait for the MythBusters 9/11 special.
     
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May 13, 2011, 01:25 PM
 
How has that not yet happened?? What a great idea!
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May 13, 2011, 03:27 PM
 
     
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May 13, 2011, 03:35 PM
 
They won't touch it with a 10' pole
PBS and NOVA did
Sep 11 - "Why the Towers Fell" - Nova PBS
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May 13, 2011, 03:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
"I have no real evidence, so in its place I will supply condescension, which I have in ample supply."
     
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May 13, 2011, 03:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
They won't touch it with a 10' pole
Once again, are jokes really that hard to identify?!
     
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May 13, 2011, 03:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
"I have no real evidence, so in its place I will supply condescension, which I have in ample supply."
That one works.
     
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May 13, 2011, 05:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I can't wait for the MythBusters 9/11 special.
Beat me to it.

Seriously, I believe the government line.
Osama was real up to his recent death.
Why the towers came down?, I believe the government line, otherwise we're fu@&ed and I don't believe in the black suits.
Space aliens, now that's something else.
( Last edited by screener; May 13, 2011 at 05:52 PM. )
     
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May 13, 2011, 06:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
"I have no real evidence, so in its place I will supply condescension, which I have in ample supply."
You have no real evidence, because everything was incinerated!!! Except the odd terrorist passport and picture slideshows on CNN.

Gather around!!!
     
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May 13, 2011, 06:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
You have no real evidence, because everything was incinerated!!! Except the odd terrorist passport and picture slideshows on CNN.

Gather around!!!
Indignation!!! Exclamations Marks!!! Loud noises!!!
     
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May 13, 2011, 07:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Indignation!!! Exclamations Marks!!! Loud noises!!!
The Final Dakar!
     
 
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