Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Osama Bin Laden: Myth or Reality?

Osama Bin Laden: Myth or Reality? (Page 4)
Thread Tools
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 13, 2011, 10:03 PM
 
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, Washington
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 14, 2011, 01:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I didn't know he was a Republican.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 14, 2011, 02:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
They won't touch it with a 10' pole
PBS and NOVA did
Sep 11 - "Why the Towers Fell" - Nova PBS
Ok im convinced that the towers pancaked on there own with no special prep work.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 14, 2011, 02:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Ok im convinced that the towers pancaked on there own with no special prep work.
Yes me too. End of story. It's finished. Finally, a TV program solves it. TV is actually the most reliable tool we humans have. It's funny, I believe the media again! It's a new day.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 14, 2011, 02:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Yes me too. End of story. It's finished. Finally, a TV program solves it. TV is actually the most reliable tool we humans have. It's funny, I believe the media again! It's a new day.
Oh shutup
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 14, 2011, 01:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Yes me too. End of story. It's finished. Finally, a TV program solves it. TV is actually the most reliable tool we humans have. It's funny, I believe the media again! It's a new day.
Hey, it was produced by that nest of neocons over at PBS and NOVA!
"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 14, 2011, 01:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
In other news, those most vocal against homosexuality often turn out to be homosexual, the strongest supporters of "family values" often turn out to be cheating on their wives, those most opposed to racism are often racist and those most vocal about saving the world from itself are often those most focussed on saving themselves.

In other words, preachers rarely practice what they preach.
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Rochester, NY
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 14, 2011, 02:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I need proof! We need to call on the Obama administration to release the pictures!
     
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 14, 2011, 06:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
I need proof! We need to call on the Obama administration to release the pictures!
Indeed. Maybe Bin was into big titten. I think the public has a right to know!!!
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 12:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
In other news, those most vocal against homosexuality often turn out to be homosexual, the strongest supporters of "family values" often turn out to be cheating on their wives, those most opposed to racism are often racist and those most vocal about saving the world from itself are often those most focussed on saving themselves.

In other words, preachers rarely practice what they preach.
Wait...where do you get "rarely?"
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 12:21 PM
 
I don't think you two are reading "preacher" in the same context.
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 12:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
The Final Dakar!
You rang?
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 12:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Ok im convinced that the towers pancaked on there own with no special prep work.
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Yes me too. End of story. It's finished. Finally, a TV program solves it. TV is actually the most reliable tool we humans have. It's funny, I believe the media again! It's a new day.
I can't tell if everyone here is being sarcastic. That being said, taking a position on the cause of the towers falling means believing some facet of "media."
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 01:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Ok im convinced that the towers pancaked on there own with no special prep work.
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Yes me too. End of story. It's finished. Finally, a TV program solves it. TV is actually the most reliable tool we humans have. It's funny, I believe the media again! It's a new day.
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I can't tell if everyone here is being sarcastic. That being said, taking a position on the cause of the towers falling means believing some facet of "media."
There are those who readily believe everything that was in the "Loose Change" [ Pick your version: Release date(s) April 13, 2005, 11; December 2005 (2nd Edition); June 2006 (Recut); 11 November 2007; (Final Cut) 22 September 2009 (American Coup) ]. but not in one produced by PBS of all networks. I can see them poo pooing it if it was FOX that produced it. I guess they were afraid of losing their funding!
( Last edited by Chongo; May 16, 2011 at 04:02 PM. )
"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 01:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
There are those who readily believe everything that was in the "Loose Change" [ Pick your version: Release date(s) April 13, 2005, 11; December 2005 (2nd Edition); June 2006 (Recut); 11 November 2007; (Final Cut) 22 September 2009 (American Coup) ]. but not in one produced by PBS of all networks. I can see them poo pooing it if it was FOX that produced it. I guess they were of losing their funding!
I can see from this post you imply that I... others who don't believe the government/media line of the Twin Towers falling... watched and believe Loose Change.

I've never seen it. Seems like a low grade, sketchy video from others' comments. I linked to it earlier to get people's opinion of it. I'd never heard of it until last week.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 04:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I can see from this post you imply that I... others who don't believe the government/media line of the Twin Towers falling... watched and believe Loose Change.

I've never seen it. Seems like a low grade, sketchy video from others' comments. I linked to it earlier to get people's opinion of it. I'd never heard of it until last week.
If you do not believe the government/media on 9/11, do you believe we have the right people in jail for the 93 WTC bombing? Was it really just Mc Veigh who set off the truck bomb at the Murrah building in OKC?
"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 05:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
If you do not believe the government/media on 9/11, do you believe we have the right people in jail for the 93 WTC bombing? Was it really just Mc Veigh who set off the truck bomb at the Murrah building in OKC?
Absolutely no idea. In a world where so many lie, steal, and cheat... where media is, some of it good, most of it bullshit... it's hard to know what is true and and what is not, unless a person is directly involved.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 05:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I don't think you two are reading "preacher" in the same context.
He's taking a few very public cases and extrapolating the conclusion to any person being vocal about any particular issue. I don't take "preacher" in the strictly religious sense.
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 05:41 PM
 
He used "most vocal" earlier in the post, and I think that's important.

I think the most reasonable synopsis is that those nationally vocal activists tend to be hypocrites at a much larger ratio than normal people.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 06:34 PM
 
Well here is my reasoning for the change of opinion. First history says steal buildings do not collapse from fire. And this is true no steal structure has collapsed from fire alone. Secondly the odds of a building collapsing in such a controlled manner made it hard to believe this was natural. There are still some things that are not explained like the puffs of smoke on lower floors that looked like controlled demolition, the perfect cut beams and the molten goo that was hot in the basement for months after the collapse.

The PBS documentary didn't touch on those things and just looked at the building itself on why it collapsed the way it did. They backed up what engineers said with video evidence demonstrating the engineers are correct. All comes down to the original design of the building which made WTC unique amongst skyscrapers. Most buildings have supporting beams through out the building every x number of feet. The WTC was designed to maximize floor space and the supporting structure was the outer wall and inner core. The floors tried it all together to create the strength.

Now when the planes crashed into the outer walls they took out a good portion of the support structure causing additional stress on the surviving beams. This alone was not enough to bring the buildings down. The fire inside the building was a normal building not a super hot fire. During the initial explosion it was only super hot for a few seconds during the flash stage of ignition. To understand this think of a BBQ, you fill a bunch of igniter fluid on the coal and light it. That fuel burns large and hot for a few seconds before leaving just a normal fire from the coal. This was the same thing for the WTC buildings. BUT the impact itself blew away a lot of the fire proofing material protecting the cross beams allowing the floors to be exposed directly to the fire. As the floor beams became softened from the fire they sagged down eventually popping from the out side walls and falling down.

Once this started the few floors week from fire gave out and now with the weight directly on the non burning floors continued the change reaction. The outer walks snapped apart as each floor collapsed and you can see it in the visual records of the collapse. The outer walls being super strong and designed as the support structure for the building is why it collapsed so perfectly like if it was a controlled demolition. More supporting evidence to this theory comes from video of the center core still standing while the collapse was occurring. The scientific and engineering explanations make sense and the video of the collapse backs this up. So I changed my opinion that it was brought down by explosives to naturally coming down due to the damage from the impacts. It does not change my opinion that the entire 9/11 attack was not a inside false flag operation. It only changed my opinion that the buildings WTC 1 and 2 came down naturally. Im not afraid to change my opinion about something when the facts, evidence points in a different direction. I'm also not afraid to accept unpopular beliefs when the evidence and logic points to it.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 06:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Well here is my reasoning for the change of opinion. First history says steal buildings do not collapse from fire. And this is true no steal structure has collapsed from fire alone. Secondly the odds of a building collapsing in such a controlled manner made it hard to believe this was natural. There are still some things that are not explained like the puffs of smoke on lower floors that looked like controlled demolition, the perfect cut beams and the molten goo that was hot in the basement for months after the collapse. The PBS documentary didn't touch on those things and just looked at the building itself on why it collapsed the way it did. They backed up what engineers said with video evidence demonstrating the engineers are correct. All comes down to the original design of the building which made WTC unique amongst skyscrapers. Most buildings have supporting beams through out the building every x number of feet. The WTC was designed to maximize floor space and the supporting structure was the outer wall and inner core. The floors tried it all together to create the strength. Now when the planes crashed into the outer walls they took out a good portion of the support structure causing additional stress on the surviving beams. This alone was not enough to bring the buildings down. The fire inside the building was a normal building not a super hot fire. During the initial explosion it was only super hot for a few seconds during the flash stage of ignition. To understand this think of a BBQ, you fill a bunch of igniter fluid on the coal and light it. That fuel burns large and hot for a few seconds before leaving just a normal fire from the coal. This was the same thing for the WTC buildings. BUT the impact itself blew away a lot of the fire proofing material protecting the cross beams allowing the floors to be exposed directly to the fire. As the floor beams became softened from the fire they sagged down eventually popping from the out side walls and falling down. Once this started the few floors week from fire gave out and now with the weight directly on the non burning floors continued the change reaction. The outer walks snapped apart as each floor collapsed and you can see it in the visual records of the collapse. The outer walls being super strong and designed as the support structure for the building is why it collapsed so perfectly like if it was a controlled demolition. More supporting evidence to this theory comes from video of the center core still standing while the collapse was occurring. The scientific and engineering explanations make sense and the video of the collapse backs this up. So I changed my opinion that it was brought down by explosives to naturally coming down due to the damage from the impacts. It does not change my opinion that the entire 9/11 attack was not a inside false flag operation. It only changed my opinion that the buildings WTC 1 and 2 came down naturally. Im not afraid to change my opinion about something when the facts, evidence points in a different direction. I'm also not afraid to accept unpopular beliefs when the evidence and logic points to it.
A word of advice: Paragraphs.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 06:39 PM
 
i was still editing and proofing
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 07:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Well here is my reasoning for the change of opinion. First history says steal buildings do not collapse from fire. And this is true no steal structure has collapsed from fire alone.
How about a steel building with a plane loaded with burning jet fuel?

If that's how you start your "proof," I'm not gonna bother reading the rest of your text-flood.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 08:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
How about a steel building with a plane loaded with burning jet fuel?

If that's how you start your "proof," I'm not gonna bother reading the rest of your text-flood.
The Jet fuel was not much of a factor, the fire was a standard temperature fire. The only important effect the plane crashing had on the out come of the building collapse was related to the impact blowing away the fire proofing material around the steal which allowed the fire to heat up the steal high enough to fail. Its why it took nearly a hour for failure. At the time of construction is was the best material of the day. Perhaps you should read what I posted before you make yourself look foolish.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 08:07 PM
 
The puffs of smoke has been attributed to air, smoke, and dust pushed out of ventilation ducts as the building pancaked.

Popular Mechanics did an article on 9/11
Popular Mechanics - Google Books
"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 08:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
The puffs of smoke has been attributed to air, smoke, and dust pushed out of ventilation ducts as the building pancaked.

Popular Mechanics did an article on 9/11
Popular Mechanics - Google Books
I always assumed that was the case for the explosives. The perfect cut beams at a angle is something that bugs me. Must be some reasonable explanation for those but I cant think of any. I figure the molten metal at the bottom from from friction and compression related to the collapse and being insulated well maintained its heat. Either way im convinced about the collapse being natural.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 08:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
I always assumed that was the case for the explosives. The perfect cut beams at a angle is something that bugs me. Must be some reasonable explanation for those but I cant think of any. I figure the molten metal at the bottom from from friction and compression related to the collapse and being insulated well maintained its heat. Either way im convinced about the collapse being natural.
Theories abound about everything. There was speculation that FDR knew about Pearl Harbor and did nothing to prevent it.
"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 16, 2011, 08:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Theories abound about everything. There was speculation that FDR knew about Pearl Harbor and did nothing to prevent it.
Funny you bring that one up. Of all the Theories out there about different things, I absolutely believe that Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen. It was actually the first conspiracy theory I ever believed.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 17, 2011, 06:59 AM
 
Hahahahaha...........ahhhhhhh. Life is normal, again.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 17, 2011, 04:01 PM
 
It is?
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 17, 2011, 09:48 PM
 
I absolutely believe that Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen. It was actually the first conspiracy theory I ever believed.
This reads like a support-group confessional.
ebuddy
     
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 18, 2011, 10:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
This reads like a support-group confessional.
Like most of the stuff on this forum.
     
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 19, 2011, 04:46 AM
 
Latest from the BBC News: new audio/video material of Osama from what the Navy Seals found. Also mentioned in the article:

The Pentagon, obviously, has a complete monopoly over the information, and is choosing what it wants the public to see very carefully.

BBC News - Bin Laden: US now in control of al-Qaeda image

This is ridiculous.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 19, 2011, 08:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
The Pentagon, obviously, has a complete monopoly over the information, and is choosing what it wants the public to see very carefully.
This is ridiculous.
What is it you'd like to know? Do you not see the merit in holding back from your enemy what you know of them?
ebuddy
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 19, 2011, 09:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Latest from the BBC News: new audio/video material of Osama from what the Navy Seals found. Also mentioned in the article:

The Pentagon, obviously, has a complete monopoly over the information, and is choosing what it wants the public to see very carefully.

BBC News - Bin Laden: US now in control of al-Qaeda image

This is ridiculous.
What if the other footage they have on bin Laden shows him strong and in command rather than frail and weak? Which footage would you prefer bin Laden's followers to see? At this point, the US is doing what it does better than any other country in the world ... it's turning this war from one of bullets and bombs to one of information. No other country can manipulate information quite so believably as the US.
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 19, 2011, 11:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
The Pentagon, obviously, has a complete monopoly over the information, and is choosing what it wants the public to see very carefully.
This is how security works. Jesus. Do you think during WWII we were cracking codes and then telling the enemy exactly what we learned?
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 19, 2011, 11:37 AM
 
Headline: US Secret Agency Feels Only "Months Away" From Developing "Atomic Bomb"

In other news: US Acknowledges Has Cracked Nazi Codes, Are Currently Listening To Everything They Say
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 19, 2011, 11:39 AM
 
Wait, a better one: Pentagon Acknowledges Has Located Obama In Pakistan; Covert Ops Expected
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 19, 2011, 11:42 AM
 
Seal Team 6 should have been live tweeting the raid on twitter.

@sealteamsix Helicopter just went down in arid Pakistani air, jarring insides. Forgot to take pre-Op dump.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 19, 2011, 06:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Wait, a better one: Pentagon Acknowledges Has Located Obama In Pakistan; Covert Ops Expected
Hahah, this one genuinely got an 'lol' out of me.
     
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 19, 2011, 11:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Seal Team 6 should have been live tweeting the raid on twitter.

@sealteamsix Helicopter just went down in arid Pakistani air, jarring insides. Forgot to take pre-Op dump.
I wish they would have tweeted stuff, at least maybe we would have been shown some more info about the porn he had. I really want to know if he was into gay porn or big titten. It's important.
     
 
Thread Tools
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:21 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2015 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2