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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Will Israel still be hated if this bears fruit?

Will Israel still be hated if this bears fruit? (Page 3)
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Posting Junkie
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May 11, 2011, 07:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Im not going to cite common knowledge because the articles are so plentiful one only has to type a couple words into a search box to be inundated with articles on the subject. . Would you like me to look up proof the sky is blue too.
Ahh yes, plentiful sure as BS usually is. Complicated, contentious, specious, slanted, and missing a whole bunch of details that would shed light on the BS that it is.

Type a couple of words? Google four letters: UFOs. There's a bounty of articles on that too.

Lap it up.
ebuddy
     
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May 11, 2011, 08:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
oh wow, dude do you seriously believe this. The members over government are bought and owned by companies. You think a person who gets thousands and millions of dollars to get them into power owes no one a favour.....
Wow man like... yeah. I do. The members over government? Like... omg... yeah.
ebuddy
     
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May 11, 2011, 09:47 AM
 
[QUOTE=ebuddy;4075477]
PhRMA is 5th and Israel isn't even in the top 10. Try again.
I don't trust data from a organization's website. Try again. Regardless, it doesn't matter, because both are HUGE driving forces in the legislative process.

Well I'd say if Monsanto owns a patent on the modification, they're able to pursue prosecution in Federal courts due to laws in existence since before they arrived in Washington with their powerful lobby. Again, Monsanto may be no more responsible for these laws than you are for seatbelt laws in your State. It's called petitioning your government. This is why folks like myself rail on a governing philosophy that "picks" winners. They have to be picked and are often sustained through unsustainable business models that couldn't exist without the support of the purveyor of your laws. I think your focus is misdirected.
Here's how reality works: You petition the government. They don't listen if you go against who is funding them, and they do listen if you align with whomever is funding them. Believe me, I've tried.

Easy, big corporations. The Corporate monoliths enjoying the lion's share of your scrutiny are likely the contrivances of government anyway.
I can elect a government, I can't do anything to influence a corporation unless I'm a billionaire.

The good news is your favorite lobby is spending at least $45 million more in lobbying a year than your least favorite. The system works as long as you appreciate the resulting legislation eh?
Which is saying it doesn't really work at all, isn't it?
     
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May 11, 2011, 10:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
grow up
Just for that after I've converted Big Mac to Christianity I will convert you to Judaism.

This goes for anybody else inclined to disrespect my authority. I will convert you to another religion too.
     
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May 11, 2011, 10:54 AM
 
What if I'm not religious in the first place?

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May 11, 2011, 11:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
What if I'm not religious in the first place?

If you sass mouth me I will convert you to some religion. If you're a real ass it might be Rastafarianism.
     
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May 11, 2011, 01:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
...what?

This makes no sense. After Lapointe/yaddaguy was kidnapped the Canadian government made the only peacetime enaction of the War Measures Act ("just watch me!") and temporarily suspended civil liberties, made extensive military deployments throughout Quebec and Canada, and arrested almost 500 people, about 85% of whom were later released without charges.

Do you not understand how this does not support your argument at all? And the FLQ was mostly involved with "terrorist activities" in their province of Quebec - had they made serious attempts in other provinces, the public response from the rest of Canada would have escalated.

Your attempt to compare Israel/Palestinians to Canada/British/Quebecers makes zero sense and is completely devoid of historical context.

greg
What I was saying is it could have been handled in a much different way resulting in a level of violence more resembling to IRA and British. First over 200 years ago when Quebec was taking over, second time during the FLQ years and since. It would not have taking a lot to spark major violence. If handled wrong. During October Crisis if the military had not just arrested people but started shooting people here and there you think it would be peaceful now? If we had banned separatist governments and been more controlling do you think it would be peaceful now?
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
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May 11, 2011, 04:35 PM
 
Like I said, that comparison is irrelevant because it's completely out of context with Israel's situation. With Quebec, the British essentially said "oh, you want to speak French and act all girly and all that shit? No worries, you go do that on your huge area here, and we're just going to take all the rest of North America."

Your other arguments about what the military might have done are also irrelevant, again because of context.

I'm not disagreeing with your position that there should be a political instead of military solution - although I think the Palestinians are the ones who should be aggresively pursuing that solution, instead of abhorent terrorist methods - but there is simply nothing in common with Quebec's situation in Canada and the Palestinian situation, beyond the obvious these-people-aren't-the-same parallels.

(Much more with the Natives, but you never brought that up. Try thinking about what would have happened to Native reserves if they were used as attack bases on non-reserve targets, though. Would there be any reserves left? Unlikely.)

greg
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
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May 11, 2011, 08:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
I don't trust data from a organization's website. Try again.
No need to try again. I've established that your gut feeling was mistaken.

Regardless, it doesn't matter, because both are HUGE driving forces in the legislative process.
Smaller driving forces than your preferred lobbyists. There are lobbying forces for and against measures and you've not been able to quantify their influence in any meaningful way other than; you don't like 'em. Forget the authors of the relationship, you don't like billionaires.

Here's how reality works: You petition the government. They don't listen if you go against who is funding them, and they do listen if you align with whomever is funding them. Believe me, I've tried.
You check the government by supporting a governing philosophy that limits their ability to mandate and regulate based on the whims of their cigar-chomping corporate funders. The funders aren't going anywhere particularly because the government will bolster them by mandates and regulations that hand-pick them as winners.

I can elect a government, I can't do anything to influence a corporation unless I'm a billionaire.
Even if you were a billionaire there'd likely be little you could do against another billionaire. Of course, this does illustrate the sort of class bitterness I suspected you were engaged in. If you're electing politicians who support a governing philosophy that perpetuates government growth under the guise of fairness in "socking it to rich people", you will continue to get what you've always gotten and that is a government that can mandate and regulate based on the whims of their corporate funders.

Which is saying it doesn't really work at all, isn't it?
Well if it doesn't work at all, then you're even more hard-pressed in making your argument that it's working against us.
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May 11, 2011, 08:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Like I said, that comparison is irrelevant because it's completely out of context with Israel's situation. With Quebec, the British essentially said "oh, you want to speak French and act all girly and all that shit? No worries, you go do that on your huge area here, and we're just going to take all the rest of North America."

Your other arguments about what the military might have done are also irrelevant, again because of context.

I'm not disagreeing with your position that there should be a political instead of military solution - although I think the Palestinians are the ones who should be aggresively pursuing that solution, instead of abhorent terrorist methods - but there is simply nothing in common with Quebec's situation in Canada and the Palestinian situation, beyond the obvious these-people-aren't-the-same parallels.

(Much more with the Natives, but you never brought that up. Try thinking about what would have happened to Native reserves if they were used as attack bases on non-reserve targets, though. Would there be any reserves left? Unlikely.)

greg
Ok I agree it was not the greatest example in the world. I think the group that holds the most power is the one responsible for for aggressively pursuing a solution that works. They hold all the power and control the situation. A lot of the attacks are last resorts of powerless people.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
 
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