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Wall Street Flash Blob (Page 4)
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Clinically Insane
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Oct 14, 2011, 10:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
If the protesters were smart they'd organize a run on the banks, stop taking out loans, or something that targets pension / 401k funds. They all use wall streets services yet aren't being forced to.
Or switch to a smaller bank?
     
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Oct 15, 2011, 01:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
If the protesters were smart they'd organize a run on the banks, stop taking out loans, or something that targets pension / 401k funds. They all use wall streets services yet aren't being forced to.
how is that smart before regulatory changes. They would get a bail out and be back in business after more damage is done to the economy.
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Oct 15, 2011, 10:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
how is that smart before regulatory changes. They would get a bail out and be back in business after more damage is done to the economy.
And here is the problem. ^^^

Government costs money. The more it wants to grow, the more money it needs. The more money it needs, the closer it needs to be to big money. If you want Big Corporation out of government, you'd better get government out of Big Corporation. The problem is you would not have Big Government without them. Big Corporation cannot simply take your money, but Big Government can. A relationship between the two means that Big Government chooses the winners and losers whereas Big Corporation would otherwise be entirely dependent upon the market forces that produce the only effective means of ensuring trustworthiness, their own survival.
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Oct 15, 2011, 02:03 PM
 
Here's an idea for all the Flea Party activists--go take a shower, wash your hair, and go back to flipping burgers or doing whatever you did for a living. Work hard at it, and you will be promoted, you will earn more money, and you can start building a life for yourself.

Or you could go back to sleeping in the street and living like degenerates, but I don't think potential employers are going to look very kindly upon that.
     
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Oct 15, 2011, 02:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
And here is the problem. ^^^

Government costs money. The more it wants to grow, the more money it needs. The more money it needs, the closer it needs to be to big money. If you want Big Corporation out of government, you'd better get government out of Big Corporation. The problem is you would not have Big Government without them. Big Corporation cannot simply take your money, but Big Government can. A relationship between the two means that Big Government chooses the winners and losers whereas Big Corporation would otherwise be entirely dependent upon the market forces that produce the only effective means of ensuring trustworthiness, their own survival.
Yes yes but your still ignoring the main reason for the protests and im wondering if its because it is on purpose or because your really clueless to the reasons.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
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Oct 15, 2011, 02:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan View Post
Here's an idea for all the Flea Party activists--go take a shower, wash your hair, and go back to flipping burgers or doing whatever you did for a living. Work hard at it, and you will be promoted, you will earn more money, and you can start building a life for yourself.

Or you could go back to sleeping in the street and living like degenerates, but I don't think potential employers are going to look very kindly upon that.
spare some change sir, can you spare some change?
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
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Oct 15, 2011, 02:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
And here is the problem. ^^^

Government costs money. The more it wants to grow, the more money it needs. The more money it needs, the closer it needs to be to big money. If you want Big Corporation out of government, you'd better get government out of Big Corporation. The problem is you would not have Big Government without them. Big Corporation cannot simply take your money, but Big Government can. A relationship between the two means that Big Government chooses the winners and losers whereas Big Corporation would otherwise be entirely dependent upon the market forces that produce the only effective means of ensuring trustworthiness, their own survival.


It's almost comical how obvious this is, but it always gets tangled up in the 'chicken before the egg' swirl of confusion. Like clockwork, you'll get the predictable response: "B-but we need Big Government to control Big Money...!" Um, right. So where does Big Government get the BIg Money they need in order to be Big Government? "B-but we need Big Government to control..." ad infinitum.
     
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Oct 15, 2011, 02:25 PM
 
Big government, small government. Size of government isn't a issue both are equally the puppets of big business.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
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Oct 15, 2011, 03:42 PM
 
^ RIght. And by this logic, someone addicted to gambling with debt up to their eyeballs, living way beyond their means is just as trustworthy with other people's money as someone with a stable income, few debts and rock solid financial sense.

Why is it that Big Government sycophants just can't bring themselves to admit the obvious: that a financially irresponsible government is much more susceptible to corruption and collusion in order to continue an out of control spending problem, than is a financially responsible government that has it's house in order?

Oh wait, I know why. Because the financially irresponsible government has promised that someday, somehow, possibly, maybe they will toss a tiny scrap of their ill gotten spoils to you in the form of bailing out your healthcare or other needs. Of course in reality they only bail out their mega-rich cronies and then bill you for it, but you know... someday they'll help you out too. Maybe.
     
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Oct 15, 2011, 04:51 PM
 
This is my favorite Flea Party activist:

Danny Cline is Lotion Man - YouTube

Danny Cline, the Lotion Man. Stay klassy, OWS.
     
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Oct 15, 2011, 05:04 PM
 
Great spokesman for the unwashed rabble. They have no message other than "We're mad as hell and we're not gonna take it anymore!" Except they are going to take it. They can parade around Manhattan all they want, but ultimately WHO CARES?? They're impotent. No message, no way to legitimize their little action, and nobody is listening. Even the media is getting bored with them. But hey, they're great for the hotdog vendors!
     
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Oct 15, 2011, 09:02 PM
 
Occupy the world!
     
Clinically Insane
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Oct 15, 2011, 09:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by rambo47 View Post
Great spokesman for the unwashed rabble. They have no message other than "We're mad as hell and we're not gonna take it anymore!" Except they are going to take it. They can parade around Manhattan all they want, but ultimately WHO CARES?? They're impotent. No message, no way to legitimize their little action, and nobody is listening. Even the media is getting bored with them. But hey, they're great for the hotdog vendors!

Again, what about the very messages discussed in this thread?

I understand that you guys dislike them and feel compelled to rant, but don't give me this "they have no message", because that is complete and utter bullshit.
     
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Oct 15, 2011, 11:08 PM
 
Who are we talking about again? Oh yeah, the Flea Baggers. They do have a message. They want a government that taxes the rich at a higher percentage than everyone else. Not going to happen, no matter which party is in charge. These people can afford the best lawyers and accountants, they will find loopholes to keep from paying higher taxes (trusts, holding corps, foreign life insurance policies, grey market municipals, etc. etc.). The money just never shows up in our system, and you can't tax what you can't find.

Next...
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Oct 15, 2011, 11:51 PM
 
I ran into a guy at the Vancouver protest holding up a sign I work, make money and so should you or something to that effect in a suite. (Picture will be posted later got a lot to process) anyways he didn't have words for me when I told him how much I make which ended up being more then him, and he was baffled why I was against the 1% which control everything and just couldn't understand what the 99% really means. And pretty much all of us in this forum are of the 99%. I would highly doubt any one here is that 1% that should be lynched, maybe a couple but that would be about it. The rest of us belong to the hard working 99% group.
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Oct 16, 2011, 12:24 AM
 
tea party=old racist white people

OWS=young international movement...

i wonder why the tea party is only limited to middle america...the fly-over staes
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 12:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Who are we talking about again? Oh yeah, the Flea Baggers. They do have a message. They want a government that taxes the rich at a higher percentage than everyone else. Not going to happen, no matter which party is in charge. These people can afford the best lawyers and accountants, they will find loopholes to keep from paying higher taxes (trusts, holding corps, foreign life insurance policies, grey market municipals, etc. etc.). The money just never shows up in our system, and you can't tax what you can't find.

Next...

That is one thing they want, but again, you are over-simplifying things by saying that it is the only thing they want.

Still, addressing your point, you don't change things by accepting the status quo. I'm not naive enough to think that these protests will change diddily squat on their own, but you have to start somewhere.
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 12:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
I would highly doubt any one here is that 1% that should be lynched, maybe a couple but that would be about it. The rest of us belong to the hard working 99% group.
Lynched? Seriously? I suppose they can try, but I'm a damned good shot. Plus, I own many legal and highly lethal surprises for anyone who would be foolish enough to try and invade my home en masse. Oh look, I have a class 3 FFL. How about that?

Also, If you think that most of the "1%" didn't work hard to get, and keep, what they have then you're being foolish.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Oct 16, 2011, 12:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by ironknee View Post
tea party=old racist white people

OWS=young international movement...

i wonder why the tea party is only limited to middle america...the fly-over staes
Funny thing, you seem to be more of a bigot than anyone I've met with the Tea Party.

Just keep on flying over, comrade. We don't want you here.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Oct 16, 2011, 12:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Funny thing, you seem to be more of a bigot than anyone I've met with the Tea Party.

Just keep on flying over, comrade. We don't want you here.
LOL

Obama is black=Tea Party

you know it's true baby
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 12:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by ironknee View Post
LOL

Obama is black=Tea Party

you know it's true baby
Well, I'm not Tea Party, but I know quite a few who are, including some who are black.

Just keep on flying over.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Oct 16, 2011, 01:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Well, I'm not Tea Party, but I know quite a few who are, including some who are black.

Just keep on flying over.

His simplification seems about as crude and inaccurate as the others in here pertaining to OWS.

Just sayin'...
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 01:35 AM
 
Have you actually seen most of the OWS crowd? The term "Flea Baggers" isn't much of an exaggeration.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Oct 16, 2011, 01:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Lynched? Seriously? I suppose they can try, but I'm a damned good shot. Plus, I own many legal and highly lethal surprises for anyone who would be foolish enough to try and invade my home en masse. Oh look, I have a class 3 FFL. How about that?

Also, If you think that most of the "1%" didn't work hard to get, and keep, what they have then you're being foolish.
Your not of the 1%, your of the 99% so why are you worried
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Oct 16, 2011, 02:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Your not of the 1%, your of the 99% so why are you worried
I'd say I'm most certainly in the top 1% of Americans in terms of wealth, but it seems to me that the people the OWS crowd are bitching about are the top .001%. Or, to be more precise, the 1 in 100,000 crowd. Those are the ones who swing the big money, and they're also the ones who will never be affected by any of this.

"Oh, the peasants are revolting!"
"You said it Lovey, they stink on ice."
"Let's fly to Monaco until the ruffians disperse."
"I'll have one of the Gulfstreams fueled and we'll leave after brunch."
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Oct 16, 2011, 02:14 AM
 
Occupy Vancouver October 15 2011 - a set on Flickr

My photos I took today, some of my fav's

First the absolute best sign of the night



Still No 1 most hated goof to ever run the USofA


VPD doing a good job keeping order and respecting peaceful protest




The dude who I make more then that can't understand he IS part of the 99%


( Last edited by Athens; Oct 16, 2011 at 02:21 AM. )
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
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Oct 16, 2011, 02:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I'd say I'm most certainly in the top 1% of Americans in terms of wealth, but it seems to me that the people the OWS crowd are bitching about are the top .001%. Or, to be more precise, the 1 in 100,000 crowd. Those are the ones who swing the big money, and they're also the ones who will never be affected by any of this.

"Oh, the peasants are revolting!"
"You said it Lovey, they stink on ice."
"Let's fly to Monaco until the ruffians disperse."
"I'll have one of the Gulfstreams fueled and we'll leave after brunch."
So you or your business personally have enough income to own a senator or governor to get what you want regardless of what the people want? I don't think your in that 1% of Corporations or individuals that owns government.
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Oct 16, 2011, 02:16 AM
 
All the imgs are busted for me.
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 02:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
All the imgs are busted for me.
Reload, I had copied the wrong links when I originally posted, its corrected now.
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Oct 16, 2011, 02:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Have you actually seen most of the OWS crowd? The term "Flea Baggers" isn't much of an exaggeration.
Have you? That would be a pretty amazing feat if they really do exist in over 1500 cities around the world, including outside of the US.

I think I understand the point you are trying to make about the unkempt nature of these protesters, I'm only criticizing the points that you and the others are actually making, because they just aren't right. For starters:

- The same traits you despise in these protesters can be found in the vast majority, if not all protests ever and protests that will exist in the future - all emotion, no focus, extreme, dumb, etc.

- Picking out the voices of the individual protesters and appointing them as representatives of the entire moment is unfair, go with the founders/actual leaders. You may not agree with what they are saying, but from what I've heard they are focused and on message. The same is true of tea party leaders

Moreover, whether you'll admit this or not, you and all other Republicans here agree with the lowest level message of these protesters, you just don't realize it. The lowest level is that capitalism has failed, or at least is failing. You just would assign different causes, blame different things, and propose different solutions.

When I say capitalism, I include government which most right wingers are generally not big fans of, because when you talk about capitalism you also have to talk about power, influence, and all of the stuff that comes with the greatest benefactors of capitalism, and the greatest benefactors and government go hand-in-hand - there is a symbiotic relationship there that involves both a give and a take, and often involving corruption at some level. When you bitch about wanting less government you are bitching about the performance and effectiveness of government, about distrust, about your sense of fairness, and all of this is intertwined with money - you can't separate money from any of this.

My theory is that capitalism has always been imperfect, we all know that, but the best we've been able to come up with. American capitalism has matured over the course of many years, and with this maturity comes the further development of its weaknesses and ugly side (which, again, includes our government). I think that we are on the path to making capitalism obsolete, but the problem is nobody yet seems to have a vision for what would take from its best qualities and succeed it. I'm certain that there is something out there, that we'll come up with something eventually. No societal institution remains a constant throughout the history of humanity, they are all constantly evolving, mutating, changing, going somewhere...

Capitalism is going somewhere, we just aren't sure where that is yet. Republican and Democrats both recognize this in their own ways (included in the failings of capitalism would also be the existence of these sorts of protests and protesters, people unhappy with welfare, and pretty much everything in the economic wheelhouse of Republican economic ideology and stuff that irritates them). Republicans and Democrats just see things differently. OWS is just a manifestation of all of this.
( Last edited by besson3c; Oct 16, 2011 at 02:39 AM. )
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 07:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
So you or your business personally have enough income to own a senator or governor to get what you want regardless of what the people want? I don't think your in that 1% of Corporations or individuals that owns government.
I could probably swing a House member, but frankly I'd rather pay that in more taxes just so everyone would shut the **** up already.
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 07:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
VPD doing a good job keeping order and respecting peaceful protest
Nice bokeh.
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 08:25 AM
 
So, in Chicago, the protest has been going 24/7 by the Federal Reserve and the Board of Trade.

They march to the park (as in, out of the way) over the weekend, dig in... and then everybody gets arrested after the park closes.

Just... wow.

I don't even agree with these people, but WTF Rahm? You will never get my vote.
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 09:04 AM
 
The Falun Gong protest has been going on since 2001. Its been manned 24/7 non stop since 2001, over 3500 days non stop now.

Not that I think this movement could last 10+ years, but the city has seen long term protests. A tent city in Stanley Park lasted 2 years. Heh just looked it up and its the worlds longest continuous 24/7 protest.

Falun Gong Wins Right to Rebuild Protest Display in Vancouver, Canada - YouTube



Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
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Oct 16, 2011, 09:11 AM
 
Honestly, they could be neo-Nazis for all I care.

Busting up non-violent protests is going to really stick in my craw regardless.



Edit: I will, and have, even gone to the mat for those WBC wastes of oxygen.
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 10:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
If the protesters were smart they'd organize a run on the banks, stop taking out loans, or something that targets pension / 401k funds. They all use wall streets services yet aren't being forced to.
So that's what they've started with Close Your Bank Account Day... yet the banks won't let them close. This link has videos of some peaceable people trying to close their accounts. In a NYC Citibank they were told to leave, they left, then were dragged back inside by rentacops and they got arrested. Note the woman in the suit clutching her statement, saying, "I am a customer" as she's dragged back inside.

I may not agree with all of this movement, but that type of thing is absolute bullsh!t.
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 11:32 AM
 
I agree, but need to point out that video is incomplete.

I'd heard they were making a scene before the lockdown, which of course, may or may not be true.


Edit: if it is true, I'll bet the bank will release security videos.
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 11:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
ebuddy, if you "get" the point of the protests and see their basic point as valid even if you don't agree with it, will you concede that your lack of empathy has made you a little biased in unfairly conflating the moronic actions and behavior of individual protesters with their overall message, and not doing the same for the tea party protests?
Overall message? Not if they supposedly stand for this message of "down with capitalism" as you suggest. They'd all love to be fat-cat, cigar-chomping rich people. They're just young and ignorant enough to believe, not unlike the provisions of their parents' homes, it should be doled out to them like free weed. This is the same "down with capitalism" bunch that will be tomorrow's used car dealers, insurance salesmen, massive computer/electronics manufacturers, and Ice Cream tycoons. Believe me, the Marxist energy generally doesn't endure beyond the age of 25 unless you stand to gain from it personally.

Give all, but the mentally ill another 5 years and they'll all be raging capitalist pigs. If they're lucky enough, they'll work on the President's economic advisory panel, drafting laws that help their business along. Remember, these are the peace, love, and down-with-wealth crowd from yesteryear who've brought all this progress their grandchildren are now bitching about.

The Tea Party turned its focus on a political party and has shaken it to the core, changing the landscape of Washington from the last election and even in placing governorships that will influence zoning and elections for many years to come. They're for limiting government. A government that does less, needs less. A government that needs less, is less beholden to the corporate, crony capitalism rampant in Washington right now. You can bitch about "the rich" all you want, but if you want your government to do more, you're going to need a sh!tload of money; on average, at least 3 times what it should actually cost to grow the bureaucracy.

The Wall Street Flash Blob has done no such thing. It is only a distraction from the source of the woes they claim to care about. This is not the failure of capitalism or evidence of the merits of Marxism, reliant upon bloated government bureaucracy that will seek to care for you more than you care for yourself. If they knew what they were talking about, they wouldn't be trying to turn us against one another, but turn against the ones that draft our laws and sit in office. It is not going to challenge their preferred party to the core and it will have no appreciable impact on the landscape of Washington. All they're doing at this point is marginalizing their environmentalist wing by trashing every area they occupy.

My guess is the overwhelming majority of complainants have not worked for an abusive firm or really know any, real evil rich people. It's a fashionable canard for togetherness and solidarity with the ignorant. When someone says to them; "hey, I think you'd be a great manager. You should apply for that opening in service." the response is too often; "hell no, I don't want to babysit!". There's a reason why pay increases as one's sphere of influence broadens and that's because you're beholden to a greater number of human beings and frankly, that responsibility is daunting and the pressure is heavy. People don't want that. They're not interested in contributing, their interested in consuming.

I'm certain they haven't a clue what the wealthy do philanthropically, but let's take more money out of their pockets so we can pay our crony friends at the solar panel manufacturing plant (great timing in the US by the way, quite the scandal brewing there), Mexican gun-runnning (quite the scandal there, I can see why a bunch of kids collecting in the streets is more newsworthy), GE, Google, some shrimp treadmills, and more studies on jello-wrestling in Antarctica. LOOK AT THEM!!! Yeah... I can see why this message has sympathy from politicians on the left. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
( Last edited by ebuddy; Oct 16, 2011 at 11:45 AM. )
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Oct 16, 2011, 11:39 AM
 
I, for one, support our shrimp on treadmill overlords.
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 03:13 PM
 
Down with capitalism? I'm starting to think that the manner in which Big Mac has been insisting that liberals just don't understand that we have a deficit problem could apply here similarly in insisting that people like ebuddy and several others here just. Don't. Get. It. When it comes to these protests.

They aren't about "down with capitalism", they are "down with fraud and abuse". Why does it seem that many of you guys just don't get it?
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 04:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
They aren't about "down with capitalism", they are "down with fraud and abuse". Why does it seem that many of you guys just don't get it?
Because their usual talking points have no ammo when it comes to this issue, and in reality, they themselves agree with that very sentiment. The conservatives always seem to be the number one party of "ending fraud and abuse" but they can't bring themselves to agree with people they consider to be beneath them...plain and simple.


Yet another case of partisan bullsh!t. Giant Corporations and Giant Government have been in eachother's pants for a damn long time. Talk to a liberal and it's "Corporations fault" talk to a conservative and it's "Governments fault." Both sides are wrong, and both sides are protecting croneyism because it's their own brand of croneyism.
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 04:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Because their usual talking points have no ammo when it comes to this issue, and in reality, they themselves agree with that very sentiment. The conservatives always seem to be the number one party of "ending fraud and abuse" but they can't bring themselves to agree with people they consider to be beneath them...plain and simple.


Yet another case of partisan bullsh!t. Giant Corporations and Giant Government have been in eachother's pants for a damn long time. Talk to a liberal and it's "Corporations fault" talk to a conservative and it's "Governments fault." Both sides are wrong, and both sides are protecting croneyism because it's their own brand of croneyism.


I don't think that both sides are wrong, I think that both sides are just looking at the same problem without realizing it and just assigning different blame and proposing different solutions. The real underlying truth is the maturation of our capitalist based system to a point that is dysfunctional and unsavory to us all. This includes the government, because when you talk about capitalism and money/power you can't exclude government. The government, corporations, and media have a symbiotic relationship with a lot in common.

Capitalism remains the best known option, but it is imperfect and always has been, and I personally think that we are on the long road to replacing it with something that builds on its best qualities. I know it's heresy to criticize capitalism, but everything in the history of humanity changes, mutates, and evolves. History will prove me right, bitches!
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 07:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I know it's heresy to criticize capitalism, but everything in the history of humanity changes, mutates, and evolves. History will prove me right, bitches!
"Capitalism" (a Marxist term for free-market economies) is change. It is a rapidly evolving, self-correcting, dynamic transactional environment that rewards value and punishes waste. Thus, its strength lies in its capacity for rapid change. That is why "liberals" are afraid of it. Liberals, generally speaking, want state-control to remove the inherent risk in life. This fear of risk and uncertainty is what drives liberals away from the free-market and towards the arms of centrally planned, undemocratic economic systems. It is a fine irony in modern politics.
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 08:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Because their usual talking points have no ammo when it comes to this issue, and in reality, they themselves agree with that very sentiment. The conservatives always seem to be the number one party of "ending fraud and abuse" but they can't bring themselves to agree with people they consider to be beneath them...plain and simple.

Yet another case of partisan bullsh!t. Giant Corporations and Giant Government have been in eachother's pants for a damn long time. Talk to a liberal and it's "Corporations fault" talk to a conservative and it's "Governments fault." Both sides are wrong, and both sides are protecting croneyism because it's their own brand of croneyism.
Let me get this straight sek, your ammo consists of... it's been going on a damn long time and both sides are wrong to protect their own croneyism? Okay, that's a bombshell no doubt, but now what? Don't let me stop you from grabbing a sign.

Otherwise, shouldn't you be surprised by the sudden concern expressed by this movement? I mean, it's been going on a long damn time.

Of course it's partisan bullsh!t, but... do you not have an opinion on what you believe is an ideal system? At the core, does it also not generally gravitate toward either a greater or lesser reliance upon a centralized authority? With all it's flaws, I'll admit that I'm more sympathetic toward the Tea Party movement. Wouldn't you say you're at least a little more sympathetic to the Occupy movement?

Honestly, I'm not sure you can get around partisanship for anyone who has actually put some thought into their positions. I believe the Occupy movement is generally representative of those seeking government solutions to what they deem are societal ills. Conservatives believe the rest of us are capable of caring for ourselves and those within our communities. Ultimately, I don't believe you can have Big Corporation without Big Government and I think this recent focus is on a symptom of the problem. After all, one has the legal authority to take your money, the other doesn't.

I sympathize with anyone truly seeking to change the system, but I don't see a willingness of this movement to challenge the core of what I can assure you is their preferred political party.
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Oct 16, 2011, 08:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan View Post
"Capitalism" (a Marxist term for free-market economies) is change. It is a rapidly evolving, self-correcting, dynamic transactional environment that rewards value and punishes waste. Thus, its strength lies in its capacity for rapid change. That is why "liberals" are afraid of it. Liberals, generally speaking, want state-control to remove the inherent risk in life. This fear of risk and uncertainty is what drives liberals away from the free-market and towards the arms of centrally planned, undemocratic economic systems. It is a fine irony in modern politics.
Exactly! And again, that's the issue with the Flash blob's disconnectedness. You cannot champion the merits of socialism while decrying the result of it.

The sooner this mass coalesces on a primary message, the sooner it will disband.
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Oct 16, 2011, 09:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Of course it's partisan bullsh!t, but... do you not have an opinion on what you believe is an ideal system? At the core, does it also not generally gravitate toward either a greater or lesser reliance upon a centralized authority? With all it's flaws, I'll admit that I'm more sympathetic toward the Tea Party movement. Wouldn't you say you're at least a little more sympathetic to the Occupy movement?
Well I'd have to be, since the Tea Party is a fairly racist and completely disjointed sect of Conservatism. At it's core I guess I agree with the Tea Party, much smaller government and the restoration of personal liberties....but that means gays get the same rights too, which I doubt anyone in the Tea Party would stand behind. I've said before the majority of OWS are starry-eyed hippies, but I get their disfranchisement with a system that no longer works for the little guy and now works to further its own agenda (government) and the agenda of those that wish to make more and more profits at the expense of Americans (big business).

I'm in the party of compromise, which currently does not exist. I'm all for huge entitlement reform to cut government spending, but also for repealing of the Bush tax cuts and equally balanced cuts of defense spending. I believe unhinged government is just as dangerous as unhinged capitalism, which we currently have both of. I want big business to create jobs for Americans, not third world slaves.

I'm sick of picking sides, trying to eek out the lesser of two evils. IMO there is no lesser, only two grand, bloated corpses that we as citizens bicker over who is the least worst. It's ludicrous. If you tellme I have only two choices, play this game of bullsh!t or stop caring and voting altogether, I pick the latter. This is feeling behind OWS, that the system is entirely broken and that, despite the side, it'll be business as usual no matter who gets elected.
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 09:34 PM
 
I want to add something. I think it's highly irresponsible of President Obama to be stoking this class warfare, especially since, unlike the Tea Partiers, many of these OWS supporters are pining for violence (heck, even one of the participants of this thread seems to be doing just that). This is a very irresponsible move by our president.
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 09:38 PM
 
Sek: Do you have any evidence, whatsoever, that the Tea Party is a racist movement? You know you are dead wrong, but I'd like to see you try to proffer something to us.

Also, if the Tea Party is so racist, why is Herman Cain a Tea Party favorite?

Cain wins big in South Carolina tea party straw poll – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

If you can't address either of those points, I'm going to have to conclude that you're using the race card to justify your own false opinions. Isn't that kinda racist?
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 09:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan View Post
"Capitalism" (a Marxist term for free-market economies) is change. It is a rapidly evolving, self-correcting, dynamic transactional environment that rewards value and punishes waste. Thus, its strength lies in its capacity for rapid change. That is why "liberals" are afraid of it. Liberals, generally speaking, want state-control to remove the inherent risk in life. This fear of risk and uncertainty is what drives liberals away from the free-market and towards the arms of centrally planned, undemocratic economic systems. It is a fine irony in modern politics.
I don't agree.

I don't think there is an underlying fear of risk, and I think any structure evolves and self-corrects, but change is relative and is only possible and practical to a certain extent.
     
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Oct 16, 2011, 09:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Exactly! And again, that's the issue with the Flash blob's disconnectedness. You cannot champion the merits of socialism while decrying the result of it.

The sooner this mass coalesces on a primary message, the sooner it will disband.

Speaking of disconnectedness...

ebuddy, in your own words, without your own narrative and commentary, what does OWS stand for?

Hint: "nothing", "socialism", or "to destroy capitalism" is the wrong answer...
     
 
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