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Conceal Carry, the 2nd Amendment, & Vigilantism (Page 30)
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Clinically Insane
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Nov 7, 2013, 05:34 PM
 
Not to the face. Back of the head.
     
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Nov 7, 2013, 05:38 PM
 
If this has been reported correctly, he straight up murdered her and should go to jail for 2nd degree murder.

He's not going to get off on stand your ground, OAW. Stand your ground requires you to be reasonably defending yourself or another under threat of life or limb. Not to mention that stand your ground doesn't apply on your own property. That's agenda based FUD. "He might get off on stand your ground laws in michigan" is absolute gibberish. No jury will find him not guilty of murder based on stand your ground doctrine when he shot her in the back of the head.

The second example shows you exactly why we need to have guns and stand your ground laws - the cops are just as susceptible to being dumbasses as the general population.
     
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Nov 7, 2013, 08:20 PM
 
See the latest reports. The police are stating that she was shot in the face. Apparently some family members who have yet to see the body were under the impression that she was shot in the back of the head. But they are saying this was not the case. We shall see.

OAW
     
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Nov 7, 2013, 09:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
See the latest reports. The police are stating that she was shot in the face. Apparently some family members who have yet to see the body were under the impression that she was shot in the back of the head. But they are saying this was not the case. We shall see.

OAW
either way, unless she had a gun on her it's murder. When you knock on someone's door you have a reasonable expectation that you are not tresspassing, and will leave if asked to (unless a posted, approved visible sign says otherwise). Are there any reports of why she was in an accident? Was she sober? If she was, it's murder. If not, we need to know more about the sequence of events and check the evidence to prosecute the charges. 2nd degree murder. That's nothing to do with stand your ground. Even if he tries to argue it is, it is not. He would be found guilty by any reasonable people.
     
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Nov 8, 2013, 12:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
either way, unless she had a gun on her it's murder. When you knock on someone's door you have a reasonable expectation that you are not tresspassing, and will leave if asked to (unless a posted, approved visible sign says otherwise). Are there any reports of why she was in an accident? Was she sober? If she was, it's murder. If not, we need to know more about the sequence of events and check the evidence to prosecute the charges. 2nd degree murder. That's nothing to do with stand your ground. Even if he tries to argue it is, it is not. He would be found guilty by any reasonable people.
The problem with SYG laws is that it keeps people from being prosecuted in the first place based on their perception .... not the actuality ..... of a threat to their life. It doesn't even get to a jury. It's going to come down to whether or not the prosecutors feel they can prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt under that enormous leeway that SYG gives to people.

That being said, if this guy gets prosecuted I contend that it will be more b/c of the fact that the victim was a female. Because if it was a young black male instead a lot of people would be falling all over themselves to give the benefit of the doubt to the homeowner. Just like with the other case I cited. The guy involved in a bad car crash knocks on the door while black ... looking for help. The white lady answers. Sees the black guy standing there and immediately slams the door shut, calls 911 and claims there is a man trying to break into her house. Which is what prompted the police to respond and approach the guy the way they did. That's what set the entire chain of events in motion. And given the news article comments and social media posts one can easily see all over the internet ... let's just say that a significant, if not majority, percentage of the majority demographic in this country didn't see anything wrong with her actions. I mean the way I see it ... home intruders don't generally knock on your door, wait for you to answer, and then stand there and ask for help when you do. But as I've always said ... common sense isn't always that common. Especially when matters of race are involved. I mean you guys know I'm going to call it like I see it. Because I can also speak to this from experience. It was the white lady's irrational fear of black men that led to her reaction. The presumption of criminality on the part of black men by white society ... which the defense in the George Zimmerman trial skillfully tapped into to get him off ... is pervasive. That phenomenon doesn't typically manifest with black females ... or women in general. Yet and still ... this guy tried to go there by claiming he thought she was an "intruder" with his initial story. I mean he had to say something right? But I bet that wasn't panning out very well with the cops so he soon changed his story to the gun "accidentally" went off. Because shooting a young woman in the face with a shotgun just strikes a raw nerve with most people. Demographics aside.

OAW
     
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Nov 8, 2013, 12:55 PM
 
Your thought process can get pretty jacked when you're scared.

I was just talking about this with my ex. She'll be walking home at night, hear the "clip-clop" of shoes behind her and get freaked out. Hell. I'm a 6' guy, and sometimes feel the same.

Of course, a guy actually trying to **** with you, isn't going to "clip-clop" on the way up.


Note, I'm not trying to justify anything. A screwed up thought process is a screwed up thought process. Throw in some unconscious racism, and you have a recipie for bad things.
     
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Nov 8, 2013, 02:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
The problem with SYG laws is that it keeps people from being prosecuted in the first place based on their perception .... not the actuality ..... of a threat to their life. It doesn't even get to a jury. It's going to come down to whether or not the prosecutors feel they can prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt under that enormous leeway that SYG gives to people.
But this case has jack shit to do with SYG laws. He was on his own property. SYG laws only apply when you're out in public. And I'm sorry, OAW, but that's how our judicial process works period. The onus is on the prosecutor to be able to prove their charges. They have sole discretion as to whether to bring the charges or not. It's called due process.

Maybe you have a problem with castle doctrine in general, but that's a tough position to hold.

That being said, if this guy gets prosecuted I contend that it will be more b/c of the fact that the victim was a female.
Uhh, what? What in the world are you basing that on?
Because if it was a young black male instead a lot of people would be falling all over themselves to give the benefit of the doubt to the homeowner
Give it a rest man. That's FUD and you know it. There are fringe populations that are openly racist and they are evil, but that does not represent the population at large.
. Just like with the other case I cited. The guy involved in a bad car crash knocks on the door while black ... looking for help. The white lady answers. Sees the black guy standing there and immediately slams the door shut, calls 911 and claims there is a man trying to break into her house. Which is what prompted the police to respond and approach the guy the way they did. That's what set the entire chain of events in motion.
Yeap. This was the police, and again that case has jack shit to do with SYG. I'm with you on police acting recklessly and without regard to human life. I support you 100% on that, and it enrages me to even think about it.

And given the news article comments and social media posts one can easily see all over the internet ... let's just say that a significant, if not majority, percentage of the majority demographic in this country didn't see anything wrong with her actions.
Dude, you can't read comments section on news articles and try to extrapolate that to the population at large. That's just....I don't even know where to begin with how incorrect that is.
I mean the way I see it ... home intruders don't generally knock on your door, wait for you to answer, and then stand there and ask for help when you do. But as I've always said ... common sense isn't always that common.
Exactly why this dude should go down for murder 2! See my above post. There is legal precedent for it.
Especially when matters of race are involved. I mean you guys know I'm going to call it like I see it.
Yeah but if you don't leave room for the things you don't see, we'll never come to an understanding. Believe me OAW I hate racism with all my being. I have quite a few friends who've had some shitty things happen because of that. It's wrong. But to stretch the imagination and fill in the gaps with speculation to make an indictment of racism only serves to weaken the cause. Boy who cried wolf and all that.
Because I can also speak to this from experience. It was the white lady's irrational fear of black men that led to her reaction.
No argument here.
The presumption of criminality on the part of black men by white society ...
Look I'm not denying that there is still a fair amount of that going on, but to say that it's pervasive and representative of the entire white population isn't fair and won't garner your support from the (larger) sympathetic white community.

which the defense in the George Zimmerman trial skillfully tapped into to get him off
No dude, we went over this. Zimmerman got off because the prosecution couldn't prove intent (and IMO rightfully so, dude was getting his ass beat).
... is pervasive.
I would hope due process is pervasive.
That phenomenon doesn't typically manifest with black females ... or women in general. Yet and still ... this guy tried to go there by claiming he thought she was an "intruder" with his initial story. I mean he had to say something right? But I bet that wasn't panning out very well with the cops so he soon changed his story to the gun "accidentally" went off. Because shooting a young woman in the face with a shotgun just strikes a raw nerve with most people. Demographics aside.
The dude was just saying whatever he could to get out of it. That's the reaction of most people. Reserve your judgement until the prosecutor has had a chance to do his job. I'm as appalled as you are and I hope they throw the book at this waste of life.
OAW
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Nov 8, 2013, 03:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Your thought process can get pretty jacked when you're scared.
I hear you. But it just seems to me that if you are that scared ... WTF are you doing opening the door?

OAW
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Nov 8, 2013, 04:03 PM
 
Not a bad point.
     
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Nov 8, 2013, 05:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
But this case has jack shit to do with SYG laws. He was on his own property. SYG laws only apply when you're out in public. And I'm sorry, OAW, but that's how our judicial process works period. The onus is on the prosecutor to be able to prove their charges. They have sole discretion as to whether to bring the charges or not. It's called due process.
Fair point. And I have no issue with the Castle Doctrine at all. I'm just saying that when you don't have a scratch on you and you shoot an unarmed 19 year woman in the face on your front porch that should result in an immediate arrest. I mean ... that's a no brainer! And like George Zimmerman ... this guy hasn't even been arrested yet. Imagine that.

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments expressed by this young lady's aunt. Which I'll modify slightly but the point remains the same. If an African-American man killed an unarmed young, white girl with a shotgun blast to the face simply because she knocked on his door the cops would take his black ass directly to jail! Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200. And then sort the rest of the sh*t out later. Anybody care to wager their next three paychecks that they wouldn't?

Originally Posted by Snow-i
Give it a rest man. That's FUD and you know it. There are fringe populations that are openly racist and they are evil, but that does not represent the population at large.
Your response is indicative of the very thing I'm talking about. And let me explain exactly what I mean. Notice how the first thing out of your mouth was to presume that such things are the result of people being "openly racist" and "evil" ... and then dismiss that out of hand when it comes to the population at large. When I said nothing of the sort! And don't take it personal. That's a very typical response. Trust me ... I see it all the time. But what I'm saying to you is that people don't have to be a member of the KKK or a skinhead group in order to harbor subconscious racial biases. All sorts of normal, everyday, upstanding, not an "openly racist" bone in their body type of people do this all the time. Even white liberals! Think about it. Do you really think it would be otherwise when racial stereotypes have been ingrained into American culture for hundreds of years? All of a sudden the American population at large suddenly became immune to that when ... exactly?

Originally Posted by Snow-i
Yeap. This was the police, and again that case has jack shit to do with SYG. I'm with you on police acting recklessly and without regard to human life. I support you 100% on that, and it enrages me to even think about it.
for your comments regarding the actions of the police. But I think you missed my larger point about the immediate reaction of the lady. I'm not by any means saying this lady is a "racist". But she did ... without question ... presume criminality on the part of the black guy on her porch. Not because of any actions on his part. Dude was just standing there. It was because of his very presence. So the million dollar question is where did that come from? Why was that the first thing that came to her mind?

Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Dude, you can't read comments section on news articles and try to extrapolate that to the population at large. That's just....I don't even know where to begin with how incorrect that is.
Believe me. My views are based on a lot more than that. But that's a topic for another thread.

Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Exactly why this dude should go down for murder 2! See my above post. There is legal precedent for it.


Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Yeah but if you don't leave room for the things you don't see, we'll never come to an understanding. Believe me OAW I hate racism with all my being. I have quite a few friends who've had some shitty things happen because of that. It's wrong. But to stretch the imagination and fill in the gaps with speculation to make an indictment of racism only serves to weaken the cause. Boy who cried wolf and all that.
Stay tuned ....

Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
No argument here.
Well maybe you didn't miss my point about the lady after all. But I find it odd that you have "no argument here" but your response immediately above was to criticize me for "stretch[ing] the imagination and fill[ing] in the gaps with speculation" ... when the comments you responded to were in reference to this same lady. Perhaps you thought I was talking about something else?

Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Look I'm not denying that there is still a fair amount of that going on, but to say that it's pervasive and representative of the entire white population isn't fair and won't garner your support from the (larger) sympathetic white community.
I think what's "pervasive and representative of the entire white population" is a matter of perspective. If one's perspective is that this phenomenon is a result of people being "openly racist" ... then I'm inclined to agree with you. OTOH, if one's perspective is that this phenomenon is a result of people having "subconscious racial biases" ... then I submit to you that it's a lot more common than many whites would like to believe. Bear in mind the latter is something that happens without one even thinking about it. it's not a conscious, deliberate response.

Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
No dude, we went over this. Zimmerman got off because the prosecution couldn't prove intent (and IMO rightfully so, dude was getting his ass beat).
You are arguing a point that's not in dispute! Clearly GZ made a presumption of criminality on the part of TM. All but the most deliberately obtuse can see that. My point is ... just as a single example ... why do you think the defense closed their case with the white female neighbor who had her house broken into by young black guys? It was to get the 5 white females on the jury to tap into that same irrational fear of black males ... and associate that with TM for no other reason than because he too was a young, black male. And thereby give GZ the benefit of the doubt despite his cockamamie story. To your point ... the prosecution had to prove intent beyond a reasonable doubt. And they failed at that. But the jury gets to decide what's "reasonable". And that's precisely what the prosecution was up against. A more diverse jury makeup would have very likely come to a different conclusion. And IMO the prosecution made a very strategic blunder when they bet that an all female jury, most if not all of whom were mothers, would see their own sons more than they would potential criminal in TM.

Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
The dude was just saying whatever he could to get out of it. That's the reaction of most people. Reserve your judgement until the prosecutor has had a chance to do his job. I'm as appalled as you are and I hope they throw the book at this waste of life.
Indeed.

OAW
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Nov 15, 2013, 01:15 PM
 
So this young lady was unarmed. The guy opens his main door on his own accord. Then shoots her in the face through the closed and locked screen door. Supposedly in "self-defense" but since there were no signs of attempted forcible entry ... he changed his story to he "accidentally" shot her. Nonetheless, it took two entire weeks (and daily protests throughout that timeframe) for prosecutors to charge this guy with Murder 2 and Manslaughter. Better late than never I suppose. Can't wait for the trial when his defense will try to "blame the victim" for her own murder because her blood alcohol level was twice the legal limit for driving.

Detroit-area man charged with murder in woman's porch death - CNN.com

OAW
     
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Nov 15, 2013, 02:44 PM
 
The fact this happened on his property, at night, made this a little more murky, but I don't believe 2 weeks is too much time when you're talking about a DA's office the size of Detroit's. It's the right call though, and I believe he'll be punished appropriately when all of the evidence is brought out at his trial.
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Nov 15, 2013, 03:55 PM
 
Unless you're worried the person is a flight risk, the longer you take the better. It means you've collected more dirt.

Or am I missing something?
     
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Nov 15, 2013, 04:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
So this young lady was unarmed. The guy opens his main door on his own accord. Then shoots her in the face through the closed and locked screen door. Supposedly in "self-defense" but since there were no signs of attempted forcible entry ... he changed his story to he "accidentally" shot her. Nonetheless, it took two entire weeks (and daily protests throughout that timeframe) for prosecutors to charge this guy with Murder 2 and Manslaughter. Better late than never I suppose. Can't wait for the trial when his defense will try to "blame the victim" for her own murder because her blood alcohol level was twice the legal limit for driving.

Detroit-area man charged with murder in woman's porch death - CNN.com

OAW
It might have just taken them two weeks to put the case together and collect enough evidence for the arraignment and bail. You don't want this guy getting out on a low bail because the case was weak at the time of arraignment. If you arrest him, you have something like 72 hours to charge them. At that point there is a bail hearing, where the prosecutor must offer a preponderance of the evidence and ask for high bail and/or remand. I'm not surprised this took two weeks (sometimes it can take much much longer). But the fact that they turned this around so quickly makes me believe that the prosecutors believe they have a rock solid case at this point. They should, they do. I don't see anything particularly outrageous about the handling of this case (aside from the dirtbags actions in the first place). He gives responsible gun owners like myself a bad name. A very bad name.

I don't think her being drunk will convince a jury that she was in any way threatening the home owner. It wouldn't convince me and I have faith that this guy is going down for Murder 2 and/or Manslaughter if he pleads out.
     
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Nov 18, 2013, 12:33 PM
 
Looks like ole George is up to his shenanigans again. Sources say he's been arrested for Domestic Violence against his new girlfriend. I'm shocked. Shocked I say!!!

Authorities called to disturbance involving George Zimmerman... | www.wftv.com

George Zimmerman arrested for domestic violence | WESH.com | Orlando, FL

OAW
     
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Nov 18, 2013, 01:01 PM
 
I'm not seeing anything related to a gun, much less concealed carry or vigilantism. Yes, his life is a trainwreck, we get that.
"Ah, the good ole' days. Nixon snooped on a hotel room and had to resign in disgrace.
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Nov 18, 2013, 01:15 PM
 
You kill one black kid...
     
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Nov 18, 2013, 01:29 PM
 
I blame Nancy Grace, just about every case she starts bellowing over ends up in an acquittal.
"Ah, the good ole' days. Nixon snooped on a hotel room and had to resign in disgrace.
Now you can eavesdrop on the whole world and it gets brushed off like a parking ticket."

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Nov 18, 2013, 01:35 PM
 
Does anyone know if she was wearing a hoodie at the time?
     
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Nov 18, 2013, 01:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I blame Nancy Grace, just about every case she starts bellowing over ends up in an acquittal.
After having watched Nancy a bunch, I'm fully convinced her success as a prosecutor was based on her ability to talk about violent crime like she's having phone-sex.
     
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Nov 18, 2013, 03:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I'm not seeing anything related to a gun, much less concealed carry or vigilantism. Yes, his life is a trainwreck, we get that.
But it also goes to GZ's "proclivities" shall we say. Let's not forget that prior to the killing of TM he was arrested for attacking an undercover police officer and had a restraining order against him by another girlfriend. Now after his acquittal it's been what ... 6 months or so? .... and he's involved with two separate domestic violence incidents with his wife and now his pregnant girlfriend.

George Zimmerman arrested for allegedly attacking pregnant girlfriend in Florida: report - NY Daily News

There seems to be a pattern of behavior here that suggests a certain level of hot-headedness, poor-impulse control, and violence. Which, in addition to the physical evidence, leads a lot of people to conclude that GZ more than likely was the aggressor on the fateful night he killed TM. But naturally .... YMMV.

OAW
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Nov 18, 2013, 03:24 PM
 
The issue is this further evidence is from after he's had his life fall apart, a condition he was not in when the incident happened.
     
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Nov 18, 2013, 03:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The issue is this further evidence is from after he's had his life fall apart, a condition he was not in when the incident happened.
Indeed. In the court of law it makes no difference. But in the court of public opinion he is certainly not conducting himself in a manner that would lead most reasonable people to conclude that he wasn't the aggressor on the night he killed TM.

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Nov 18, 2013, 03:49 PM
 
But, for the reasons stated above, I'd say those opinions are superficial.

That doesn't exclude other reasons, of course.
     
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Nov 18, 2013, 04:12 PM
 
Apparently GZ is alleged to have broken a table in his pregnant girlfriend's home and pointed a shotgun at her. And as of now he still has a valid CWP.

George Zimmerman, who was acquitted this summer of murdering teenager Trayvon Martin, has been arrested in Florida and charged with aggravated assault, battery and criminal mischief.

Police identified the alleged victim as Samantha Scheibe and said the incident occurred at a home they shared.

Zimmerman, 30, was arrested by the Seminole County Sheriff's Office at about 1 p.m. today, authorities said.

He was booked into the John E. Polk Correctional Facility.

"When we arrived, the victim indicated that she and George Zimmerman were having a verbal dispute and at that time she alleged that he had broken had broken a table and pointed a long-barrel shotgun at her," Seminole County Sheriff's Office Chief Deputy Dennis Lemma said at a news conference.

She managed to work her way to the front door of the residence and call 911 on her cell phone.

"At that time, he actually pushed her out of the front of the residence and barricaded the door with some furniture," Lemma said.

When authorities arrived, the girlfriend gave officers a key to the home and they were able to open the door, push away the furniture and confront Zimmerman.

He was unarmed when police got to him and "rather passive," Lemma said. He offered no resistance and was taken into custody.

The sheriff's office said they will be releasing the arrest report and 911 call as soon as they are available.
George Zimmerman charged with aggravated assault | ABCNews.com

Ironic how the defense made such a big deal over how "passive" and "cooperative" GZ was with the police the night he killed TM. As if that was indicative of him not being the aggressor. Fortunately this time the other person is still around to tell their side of the story.

OAW
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Nov 18, 2013, 06:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Apparently GZ is alleged to have broken a table in his pregnant girlfriend's home and pointed a shotgun at her. And as of now he still has a valid CWP.

Ironic how the defense made such a big deal over how "passive" and "cooperative" GZ was with the police the night he killed TM. As if that was indicative of him not being the aggressor. Fortunately this time the other person is still around to tell their side of the story.

OAW
He wasn't passive or cooperative here at all. In fact, his behavior was very consistent with an aggressor. I don't think there should be any question as to his depravity at this point. The tragedy is we didn't have such a clear trend on him prior to shooting Trayvon.
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Nov 18, 2013, 08:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
He wasn't passive or cooperative here at all. In fact, his behavior was very consistent with an aggressor. I don't think there should be any question as to his depravity at this point. The tragedy is we didn't have such a clear trend on him prior to shooting Trayvon.
Indeed.

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Nov 19, 2013, 12:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The issue is this further evidence is from after he's had his life fall apart, a condition he was not in when the incident happened.
True. He's hounded and followed constantly, he was found Not Guilty but still ended up in a type of prison. All that stress takes its toll on a person, he really should skip the country and head to somewhere in S. America or Asia. Get a fresh start out of the media circus.
"Ah, the good ole' days. Nixon snooped on a hotel room and had to resign in disgrace.
Now you can eavesdrop on the whole world and it gets brushed off like a parking ticket."

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Nov 19, 2013, 07:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
True. He's hounded and followed constantly, he was found Not Guilty but still ended up in a type of prison. All that stress takes its toll on a person, he really should skip the country and head to somewhere in S. America or Asia. Get a fresh start out of the media circus.
He will continue to be the lefts punching bag for gun bans and other useless attempts at controlling violence until HE learns to control himself. He needs to leave populated areas for a decade or so. Perhaps Utah, or North Dakota?
     
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Nov 19, 2013, 12:52 PM
 
Looks like GZ has gotten himself another "get out of jail" card. $9000 bond. Which IIRC means he can walk for 10% of that. Not even a stack!

The good news is that the judge ordered GPS monitoring, yet another restraining order for a woman in his life ... as in no contact with his girlfriend of any kind, not even to pick up his belongings, no travel, and he can possess no weapons or ammunition while out on bond. Prosecution said that GZ choked his girlfriend 2 weeks ago in an unreported domestic violence incident and talked about suicide. Court date set for Jan. 7.

Meanwhile Marissa Alexander who was sentenced to 20 years for firing a warning shot near her abusive husband who was admittedly beating her ass is still sitting in jail awaiting a new trial. Next hearing is Jan. 15th.

Marissa Alexander case: No decision on bond |TheGrio.com

So basically George "Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?" Zimmerman gets to spend the holidays with his family ... and Marissa "Sista can't stand her ground in FL" Alexander gets to spend hers in a 6 x 8. Wow. Just .... wow.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Nov 19, 2013 at 01:07 PM. )
     
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Nov 19, 2013, 01:19 PM
 
The 911 calls transcript was interesting lunch reading.
     
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Nov 19, 2013, 01:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
The 911 calls transcript was interesting lunch reading.
I imagine so. Got a link handy?

OAW
     
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Nov 19, 2013, 01:27 PM
 
Sadly no, I was on my phone
     
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Nov 19, 2013, 01:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Sadly no, I was on my phone
No worries. I'm sure it will readily available shortly. I'm particularly interested to see how GZ talks about his "pregnant" girlfriend in his 911 call ... but she told the police she's not pregnant at all.

EDIT: Just heard her call on YouTube.

And the shotgun he used is a Kel-Tec. Hmmm ... where have we heard that before?

George Zimmerman, who is already packing a pistol, toured a gun maker's factory this week and asked whether he could buy a shotgun.

Zimmerman, acquitted a month ago of killing teenager Trayvon Martin with a Kel-Tec 9 mm pistol, toured the Kel-Tec plant on Thursday in Cocoa, Fla. The plant is about an hour's drive from Sanford, the community where Martin was killed.

Zimmerman, 29, took a tour of the assembly plant and asked about the legality of buying a shotgun and smiled in a photograph with an employee, according to TMZ, which first reported the visit.
George Zimmerman Visits Florida Gun Maker Kel-Tec | ABCNews.com

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Nov 19, 2013 at 03:18 PM. )
     
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Nov 19, 2013, 03:23 PM
 
Both 911 calls can be heard here .....

Dispatcher: Ok what's going on there?

GZ: Umm I believe my girlfriend for the lack of a better term has ... gone crazy on me.

Dispatcher: Your girlfriend?

GZ: Yes.

Dispatcher: Ok where is she now?

GZ: Outside with the police.

Dispatcher: Ok the police is al .. is already there and so why are you calling? What happened? ::: Police start knocking, not banging on the door. ::::

GZ: Uhh I just want everyone to know the truth. ::: I said during his trial that GZ was very calculating. Every change to his story served the purpose of painting himself in a better light and portraying TM as "suspect". Here he does the same thing knowing it will be recorded. :::::

Dispatcher: Ok. The officers can speak with you on scene. Have you already spoken with them? ::: Police knock a bit louder. ::::

GZ: No ... they're pretty upset I think. ::: And you know this how George? :::::

Dispatcher: The officers are upset?

GZ: Yeah they are banging on the doors and the window. ::: No they weren't. Clearly George doesn't know how cops bang on doors in the hood. :::::

Dispatcher: You're not going to go speak with them?

GZ: I don't have anything to say. ::: Imagine that. :::::

Dispatcher: Ok. Hold on one moment I'm getting the information to the officers. Were there any weapons involved?

GZ: I have weapons ... she has weapons in the house.

Dispatcher: So she has a weapon in the house? Ok.

GZ: Yes. It's her house. She's got a a 9mm ... I mean I have my firearms. There ... she was throwing my stuff out. And in one of the bags was one of my firearms. I never pulled a firearm ... I never displayed it. I ... when I was packing it I'm sure she saw it I mean we keep it next to the bed.

Dispatcher: Ok. Is her weapon put up?

GZ: I have no idea. It's hers.

Dispatcher: And what about your weapon?

GZ: It's in a bag ... locked. ::: Notice how ole George tries to give the impression that this was the case the entire time. He also knows that since it's locked up the cops will need a search warrant to retrieve it. :::::

Dispatcher: Ok.

GZ: I just wanted to leave. She told me that it was better ... she's pregnant with our child ... and she told me it was better if we co-parented and she raised the child on her own. And I said "Fine." I said "Are you sure this is what you want to do?" and she said "Yes." As soon as I started to pack my stuff to leave she just completely .... changed. ::: First of all you have your soon to be ex-wife AND your girlfriend giving your loser ass the deuces within months of each other. And in both instances your story is eerily the same. BOTH of these women who are not likely on each other's Christmas Card lists are telling the SAME LIE on you. Because they both all of a sudden went CRAZY on you just out of the blue ... for no apparent reason. :::::

Dispatcher: When you said she changed what did she do?

GZ: At first she was letting me pack my stuff so that I could so we could go our own ways amicably. When she changed she just started smashing stuff ... taking stuff that belonged to me and throwing it outside ... throwing it out of her room .. throwing it all over the house. She broke a glass table because she threw ... something on it. I don't even know if it was mine or hers or whatever it was. She got mad that I guess that I told her that I would be willing to leave. I guess she thought I was going to argue with her but she's pregnant ... I'm not going to put her through that kind of stress. ::: The ever present self-narrative of George the Noble. :::::

Dispatcher: Ok. And you're still not willing to go out and speak with the officers?

GZ: No. I mean I can have .. you know I can talk to one of the officers but I don't want to go outside. They're just going to do the same thing you did before and ... ::: But I thought you didn't want to speak with the officers because you had nothing to say George? Yet somehow you have plenty of self-serving things to say to the dispatcher on tape. So now your story is you don't want to go outside because you know you will be arrested with your face all over the news like the last time. That might have something to do with the fact that you pushed her out of her own house, locked the door, and barricaded yourself inside. Definitely NOT the behavior of someone who "just wanted to leave". :::::

Dispatcher: I'm advising the officers ... but they're going to need to speak with you. So if you just wanted to ...

GZ: Ok.

Dispatcher: You're willing to speak with ...

GZ: Can they call my attorney? ::: You know George it amazes me that you can lie so ... casually. You know good and damned well that O'Mara ditched your sorry ass after the last domestic violence incident with your wife. And because you still owe him major stacks in attorney's fees for getting you off on murder charges. So cut the crap dude ... what attorney? :::::

Dispatcher: Well they're already on scene? You don't want to speak to them on the phone either or ...

GZ: Sure I can talk to them on the phone.

Dispatcher: Was anyone injured or anything like that during ... when things were begin thrown around? Do you need medical?

GZ: No.

Dispatcher: Ok.

And now juxtapose all of GZ's story with this ....

Though Zimmerman says the argument erupted after he tried to leave because Scheibe was pregnant and wanted to raise their child by herself, police say that Scheibe disputed the account.

"She told me it was better if we co-parented and she raised the child on her own," Zimmerman said to a 911 dispatcher in a separate call. "I said, 'Are you sure this is what you want to do?' She said, 'Yes.'"

Zimmerman continued, "As soon as I started packing up my stuff to leave, she just completely changed." Asked to elaborate, Zimmerman said he wanted to leave amicably, but Scheibe "just started smashing stuff, taking stuff that belonged to me and throwing it outside, throwing it out of her room, throwing it all over the place.

"I guess she thought I was going to argue with her, but she's pregnant. I'm not going to put her through that type of stress."

In a question-and-answer session following Monday's news conference, Lemma told reporters, "At this time, the victim has disclosed to us that she is not pregnant."
Bail for George Zimmerman set at $9,000 in domestic violence case - CNN.com

A simple pregnancy test can easily reveal who is telling the truth about the baby. Anybody care to wager on GZ?

OAW
     
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Nov 19, 2013, 03:29 PM
 
911: ...and so why are you calling?

     
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Nov 19, 2013, 03:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
911: ...and so why are you calling?

Exactly.

OAW
     
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Nov 19, 2013, 03:42 PM
 
Oh it gets better ....

It was a rough day for George Zimmerman: His wife served him with divorce papers in jail, he was accused in court of choking his girlfriend and threatening suicide, and his lawyer revealed he’s $2.5 million in debt.

Tuesday’s developments came as a judge set bond at $9,000 for Zimmerman, who was arrested a day earlier on a felony assault charge for allegedly threatening his girlfriend with a gun.

The former neighborhood watch volunteer – who’s had a series of legal encounters since being acquitted in the shooting of unarmed teen Trayvon Martin – is expected to be released Wednesday after posting bail.

But being locked up for two days meant his estranged wife Shellie Zimmerman, who had her own domestic dispute with him in September, was able to have him served with a divorce petition, his lawyers confirmed.
George Zimmerman's bond set at $9,000 as prosecutor airs choking accusation - U.S. News

Apparently ole George has been dodging the service of the divorce papers that Shellie Zimmerman filed for months. Well nothing says "I'm so through with your sorry ass!" like serving you divorce papers in the slammer! Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

OAW
     
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Dec 17, 2013, 06:21 AM
 
No prosecution for Zimmerman.
George Zimmerman will not be charged in domestic dispute, prosecutor says - Orlando Sentinel

George Zimmerman's latest brush with the criminal-justice system ended Wednesday, when State Attorney Phil Archer announced that Zimmerman will not face charges in a domestic incident last month.

Archer's decision came days after the named victim, Zimmerman's then-girlfriend Samantha Scheibe, signed an affidavit recanting the allegations that led to Zimmerman's arrest Nov. 18 at the home they shared.

"I do not want George Zimmerman charged. I make this decision freely, knowingly and voluntarily, without any intimidation, coercion or undue influences," Scheibe said in her affidavit.

In a statement Wednesday, Archer said the Seminole County Sheriff's Office had probable cause to arrest Zimmerman after Scheibe called 911 and reported Zimmerman was armed and behaving threateningly.

"However, upon reviewing the recent affidavit ... and taking into account the conflicting statements about what occurred, the failure to cooperate with the ongoing investigation, and a lack of any other corroborating evidence or witnesses, there is no reasonable likelihood of successful prosecution," said Archer, the top prosecutor for Seminole and Brevard counties.
     
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Dec 17, 2013, 07:44 AM
 
You buried the lead.

George's painting:

     
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Dec 26, 2013, 08:20 PM
 
Here you go OAW.

See? No need for outrage here. The system is working how it's supposed to.

Michigan man who shot drunk woman on porch will face murder trial | Fox News
     
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Jan 13, 2014, 05:50 PM
 
Retired police officer shoots and kills a fellow movie patron in a Tampa theater who was texting his daughter during the PREVIEWS. Witnesses say at some point during the verbal dispute a bucket of popcorn was thrown. I smell a butter flavored "Stand Your Ground" defense coming.

Texting Triggers Movie Theater Shooting by Retired Police Captain - ABC News

OAW
     
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Jan 13, 2014, 06:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Retired police officer shoots and kills a fellow movie patron in a Tampa theater who was texting his daughter during the PREVIEWS. Witnesses say at some point during the verbal dispute a bucket of popcorn was thrown. I smell a butter flavored "Stand Your Ground" defense coming.

Texting Triggers Movie Theater Shooting by Retired Police Captain - ABC News

OAW
Well, considering you jumped the gun with your outrage on the last one, why don't we wait to see what actually happen(s)(ed) before speculating and getting ourselves all riled up over nothing?

I'd bet you my house there is much more to this story then that article contains, and there is no indication that the FL stand your ground statute will have anything to do with this case, much less get this guy acquitted.
     
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Jan 13, 2014, 07:40 PM
 
^ I think your sarcasm meter is a bit off today.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Jan 13, 2014 at 08:39 PM. )
     
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Jan 14, 2014, 01:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
^ I think your sarcasm meter is a bit off today.

OAW
It is a Monday
     
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Jan 14, 2014, 03:19 AM
 
It appears, as usual, a lot of info was withheld by media outlets to add to the drama, like; the 71 y/o old man being heavily bruised from an altercation, and the "popcorn being thrown" was probably his. It wasn't thrown, it flew up in the air when the much-younger man slugged him. This is an elderly, retired officer, despite opinions to the contrary, I doubt he'd gun for someone over being loud in a theater.
"Ah, the good ole' days. Nixon snooped on a hotel room and had to resign in disgrace.
Now you can eavesdrop on the whole world and it gets brushed off like a parking ticket."

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Jan 14, 2014, 06:09 AM
 
What was the movie, Falling Down?
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Jan 14, 2014, 06:17 AM
 
Why can't people just leave their toys in the car when going to a movie? The assholes who JUST HAVE to have their iFones etc with them all the time and connected to their shallow friends is pathetic. They need to get a real life, and learn to relate to real people, not devices.
     
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Jan 14, 2014, 10:13 AM
 
I hate people who use the phone in movies, but

a) the victim was a parent who was trying to reassure his 3 year old daughter
b) the movie wasn't on yet
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Jan 14, 2014, 10:17 AM
 
Tangentially related, but what the deal with California cops who killed the schizophrenic homeless guy? I saw that they got off, but I don't have any grasp of the situation as to wether its a miscarriage of justice or misrepresentation of the situation.
     
 
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