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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Stay Classy, PA: Voter Suppression 2012, 2013, 2014... and so on.

Stay Classy, PA: Voter Suppression 2012, 2013, 2014... and so on. (Page 6)
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Games Meister
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Oct 25, 2012, 09:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'd say it's implied.
By their mere presence, maybe. But I don't like this alley of argumentation. This is why I always ask what they think or mean. (And it's amazing how hard some of them find it to just answer!). Rule 8 and all.


Originally Posted by subego View Post
Chongo and BadKosh are of course free to claim otherwise.
Opt-out?

You're likely right, but if they really believe that but are too gutless to spell it out, they'll get what they deserve.
     
Clinically Insane
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Oct 25, 2012, 09:33 AM
 
I'm miffed at the debate tactic wherein I need to watch a 30 minute video to continue participating, and when I do, find it's utter trash.

This sucks the mojo to do the dance right out of me.
     
Games Meister
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Oct 25, 2012, 09:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm miffed at the debate tactic wherein I need to watch a 30 minute video to continue participating, and when I do, find it's utter trash.
This sucks the mojo to do the dance right out of me.
No one said you have to watch a 30 minute video. I don't see how just posting that isn't as much of a Rule 8 as a text link, if not moreso.
     
Clinically Insane
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Oct 25, 2012, 09:54 AM
 
I have to watch the video if I want to know what they're talking about.

I've only seen rule 8 enforced against OPs.
     
Games Meister
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Oct 25, 2012, 09:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I have to watch the video if I want to know what they're talking about.
The same with people who only post links. I don't get why we're arguing over this – its completely counterproductive to discussion and either portrays cowardice or laziness.


Originally Posted by subego View Post
I've only seen rule 8 enforced against OPs.
I think there were cases in the good old days that transcended OPs, but maybe I'm wrong. And if I am, all I have to say, is it should be that way. The difference between a post and run in an OP and as a rebuttal (or thread-crapping) isn't that large.
     
Clinically Insane
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Oct 25, 2012, 10:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
The same with people who only post links. I don't get why we're arguing over this – its completely counterproductive to discussion and either portrays cowardice or laziness.
Comprehension Distortion Field. We're not arguing.

It would obviously be better to discuss this with the "pulling teeth" method certain members seem to require. I'm not trying to justify me throwing up my hands in frustration, I'm only explaining where that frustration came from.

I'm in a pissy mood, and watching the trashy video made me more pissy.
     
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Nov 1, 2012, 07:15 AM
 
Ohio, Ohio, Ohio!

http://www.mariettatimes.com/page/co...sap=1&nav=5018

A federal appeals court on Wednesday temporarily halted an attempt by voter advocates to expand the conditions under which provisional ballots are counted in the swing state of Ohio.
Some polling places contain voting machines for several precincts. Voters in the right building, but in the wrong precinct, are labeled "right church, wrong pew." Ohio has been ordered to count those under a previous court decision.

However, the state had opposed counting ballots at wrong polling locations, saying it could create Election Day chaos among other problems.

The three-judge appeals panel agreed. It wrote in its opinion that the lower court's ruling would result in "interference with orderly election administration and greater confusion among poll workers and voters."

The appeals court decision delays an Oct. 24 ruling by Columbus federal Judge Algenon Marbley, who said he based his order on the rationale that such problems arise because of mistakes by poll workers.

But the appeals court questioned whether such ballots at the wrong polling locations should be counted.

"Though voters must rely heavily on poll workers to direct them to the proper precinct in a multi-precinct voting place, they are not as dependent on poll workers to identify their correct polling place," the appeals court concluded.



http://www.dispatch.com/content/stor...e-ballots.html

Secretary of State Jon Husted has acknowledged that a data-sharing glitch between his office and the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles likely caused some absentee-ballot applications to be wrongfully rejected because county boards did not have up-to-date information on registrants’ addresses.
If the math holds up, he said, as many as 4,500 registered voters will not receive absentee ballots they requested. As many as 6,000 provisional ballots cast by registered voters could go uncounted, he added.
Matt McClellan, Husted’s spokesman, said of the 100,000 notifications, about 65,000 were registered voters and 32,000 of those already had updated their address information with the secretary of state’s office.

That left about 33,000 voters whose addresses possibly would not match the voter rolls. He said the office sent the updated information to the county election boards as soon as it became available.

“Certainly we would have liked to have the data sooner,” McClellan said. “We’re ultimately avoiding possibly thousands of provisional ballots.”
Whoops.
     
Clinically Insane
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Nov 4, 2012, 01:02 PM
 


Here's the line in one district in Florida.

Supposedly a 9 hour wait.
     
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Nov 5, 2012, 05:11 AM
 
Yeah, I was reading about that. I may start another thread today. Because I've become the new besson of the PL.
     
OAW
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Nov 5, 2012, 08:58 AM
 
And this is precisely why Election Day s/b a federal and state holiday. A lot of people simply can't afford to take off an entire day waiting in line. They just give up and go in to work ... especially if they are paid by the hour.

OAW
     
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Nov 5, 2012, 09:14 AM
 
Most countries have the Election Day on the weekend. Never understood why the US doesn't.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
OAW
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Nov 5, 2012, 09:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Most countries have the Election Day on the weekend. Never understood why the US doesn't.
Probably the same reason why the entire planet uses the metric system except the US.

OAW
     
Games Meister
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Nov 6, 2012, 06:02 AM
 
Hoping this much ado about nothing...

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/19336
On Monday, Ohio Green party co-chairman Fitrakis filed a federal lawsuit over software that was allegedly installed on central vote tabulation machines in 39 counties in Ohio without being tested or certified for use as required by state law.
The software was installed in the weeks leading up to the election, and was reportedly installed on machines that will be used to count ballots cast by more than 4 million registered voters, including those in Cleveland and Columbus.

Memos from the the Ohio Secretary of State's office indicate that this software was never tested because of claims that it is not involved with the tabulation or communication of votes. The software patches were deemed "experimental" by Husted office, and was thus made exempt from Ohio's testing and certification requirements.

Under Ohio law, untested software updates on voting machines are illegal, but last minute "experimental" patches on some, but not all, machines is permitted and doesn't require certificatino or testing.
I'd be concerned if there's a pattern as to where those patched systems are.
     
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Nov 6, 2012, 07:14 AM
 
Given the history of GOP shenanigans in Ohio and Florida I certainly wouldn't dismiss it.

OAW
     
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:00 AM
 
Reports are coming out of PA the Republican poll watchers are getting blocked from entering polling sites
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
     
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:05 AM
 
Please source your claims. Today is going to rumor, lie, and gossipfest '12. Trying to ignore twitter.

BTW, Black Panther guy is back.
     
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:14 AM
 
Everyone's fave news source

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/06/judge-issuing-order-to-reinstate-booted-philadelphia-election-officials/
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
     
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:15 AM
 
This is nice. From a Philly polling place.

¡Viva Cristo Rey!
     
OAW
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:21 AM
 
And as expected, the BS has begun in PENNSYLVANIA ....

My wife and I went to the voting booths this morning before work. There were 4 older ladies running the show and 3 voting booths that are similar to a science fair project in how they fold up. They had an oval VOTE logo on top center and a cartridge slot on the left that the volunteers used to start your ballot.

I initially selected Obama but Romney was highlighted. I assumed it was being picky so I deselected Romney and tried Obama again, this time more carefully, and still got Romney. Being a software developer, I immediately went into troubleshoot mode. I first thought the calibration was off and tried selecting Jill Stein to actually highlight Obama. Nope. Jill Stein was selected just fine. Next I deselected her and started at the top of Romney's name and started tapping very closely together to find the 'active areas'. From the top of Romney's button down to the bottom of the black checkbox beside Obama's name was all active for Romney. From the bottom of that same checkbox to the bottom of the Obama button (basically a small white sliver) is what let me choose Obama. Stein's button was fine. All other buttons worked fine.

I asked the voters on either side of me if they had any problems and they reported they did not. I then called over a volunteer to have a look at it. She him hawed for a bit then calmly said "It's nothing to worry about, everything will be OK." and went back to what she was doing. I then recorded this video.
This Voting Machine Won’t Let You Vote for Obama | Gizmodo.com

And in ARIZONA .....

A Republican senate candidate in Arizona is being accused of sending Democratic voters to the wrong polling location.

NBC News reported that Rep. Jeff Flake’s campaign allegedly made robocalls over the weekend, encouraging voters to cast their ballots, but giving them the wrong information on their polling location.
Arizona GOP Senate candidate Jeff Flake accused of sending voters to wrong polls | TheGrio.com

OAW
     
OAW
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:24 AM
 
An centralized site tracking all the VOTER SUPPRESSION efforts nationwide.

MoJo's Guide to Voter Suppression and Poll Problems | MotherJones.com

OAW
     
OAW
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Reports are coming out of PA the Republican poll watchers are getting blocked from entering polling sites
I suspect it's related to this ....

Civil rights and other progressive groups have sent a letter to Assistant U.S. Attorney General Thomas Perez alleging that the Pennsylvania Republican Party and Pittsburgh Tea Party are targeting Pittsburgh precincts with large numbers of black voters "under the guise of combating alleged voter fraud."

“We have seen their list and it strongly suggests that the Pennsylvania Republican Party is coordinating with the Pittsburgh Tea Party to target African American voters for intimidation at the polls,” according to a statement from Service Employees International Union (SEIU) Associate General Counsel Nicole Berner. “The Pennsylvania Republican Party has serious questions to answer about where they are putting their poll watchers and why.”

According to the letter, the rights organizations obtained a partial list of targeted precincts distributed at a Pittsburgh Tea Party poll watcher training coordinated with the Republican Party. The precincts have a black voter registration of over 79 percent.
GOP poll watchers allegedly targeting black precincts in Pittsburgh | Citypaper.net

And then of course there is this ....

There were reports of problems with long voting lines, partisans handing out literature and confusion with the voter ID law across the state as voters headed to the polls on Election Day Tuesday.
An Allegheny County judge issued an order to halt electioneering outside a polling location in Homestead.

County officials received a complaint shortly before 10 a.m. Tuesday that Republicans outside a polling location on Maple Street in Homestead were stopping people outside the polls and asking for identification.

The order states: “Individuals outside the polls are prohibited from questioning, obstructing, interrogating or asking about any form of identification and/demanding any form of identification from any prospective voter.”


Allegheny County Common Pleas Judge Guido A. DeAngelis, one of two judges overseeing Elections Court, issued the order and said such actions by partisans “could have a chilling effect” on voting.
Common Pleas Judge Jeffrey A. Manning, who also is overseeing the court this morning, said the only people permitted to ask for ID are the poll workers inside the voting locations.

Poll watchers will ask for photo ID, but voters need not show identification for this year’s election. Voters have complained that some poll workers are enforcing the state’s voter ID law.

Daniel Seidling, a retired U.S. Air Force Master Sergeant from Monroeville, said a poll worker at the No. 6 Fire Hall in Monroeville would not accept his government-issued military ID and required him to produce his driver’s license before allowing him to vote.
Voters report problems with long lines, confusion over voter ID law | Triblive.com

OAW
     
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:29 AM
 
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
     
Games Meister
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:32 AM
 
PA seems to have crap happen every four years from both sides, but to me the reassuring fact is it keeps turning blue nationally.

I'd be more concerned about Ohio and Florida where both sides efforts can make a difference.
     
Clinically Insane
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:32 AM
 
Remarkably, the pen I used to vote with today put ink only where I placed the tip.
     
Games Meister
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Everyone's fave news source
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/06/judge-issuing-order-to-reinstate-booted-philadelphia-election-officials/
Sarcasm aside, I'll take foxnews over some random blogger or something.
     
Games Meister
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Remarkably, the pen I used to vote with today put ink only where I placed the tip.
We had paperless evoting in '08 and '10 and I absolutely loathe it.
     
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:41 AM
 
Arizona has the giant scantron cards as well.
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
     
Games Meister
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:44 AM
 
My first time voting I had ballots where you had to draw a line across to complete an arrow indicating your choice. A little antiquated, but tangible.
     
Clinically Insane
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:48 AM
 
No paper trail seems like a bad idea to me.


I read the FOX piece. From what I can gather, the system seems massively screwed-up.

1) There are a limited amount of seats for inspectors/judges. It's not clear what these people do.
2) Republicans somehow need the courts to appoint them. This makes no sense. The only thing I can imagine is there aren't enough volunteers.
3) Because they're appointed by the court, they get there late, all the seats are taken and no one wants to give up their seat.
     
Games Meister
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
No paper trail seems like a bad idea to me.
Yep. With the vote-flipping crap that inevitably occurs every time, it strikes me as vital to have that tangible back-up.
     
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
My first time voting I had ballots where you had to draw a line across to complete an arrow indicating your choice. A little antiquated, but tangible.
Heh. That's what we use now.

My first time we punched out chads, and we liked it!
     
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:53 AM
 
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
     
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Nov 6, 2012, 02:30 PM
 
From Florida:

I'm not sure who this woman was attempting to vote for, but an MIT tshirt was mistaken for MITT campaigning...

http://bocanewsnow.com/2012/11/06/woman-wearing-mit-shirt-banned-from-voting-in-boca-raton/
     
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Nov 7, 2012, 05:46 AM
 
So I realized something voting yesterday... how do they determine the order on the ballot? And have they done studies to see if it has influence over the final results?
     
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Nov 7, 2012, 07:35 AM
 
@daveweigel
Had the PAGOP's succeeded in the scheme to split electoral votes by CD, Romney would have won 12 of 19 EVs while losing the state.
     
OAW
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Nov 8, 2012, 10:09 AM
 
It's becoming readily apparent that many on the right have been in their insulated conservative media bubble for so long that their minds are still unable to grasp the nature of the electoral clobbering that just befell the GOP. But in the context of this particular thread it's getting to the point of being downright delusional ....

GOP strategist Karl Rove went on Fox News today to argue that President Barack Obama "succeeded by suppressing the vote" -- an argument that directly contradicts the conventional wisdom that Romney failed to appeal to non-white and female voters.

Rove argued that Obama won with a smaller popular vote and a smaller margin of victory than in the 2008 election against Sen. John McCain. Instead of expanding voters, Rove argued, Obama "suppressed the vote" by demonizing former Gov. Mitt Romney and encouraging people not to vote.

"President Obama has become the first president in history to win a second term with a smaller percentage of the vote than he did in the first term," Rove said.


"But he won Karl, he won!" Fox News host Megyn Kelly interjected. Kelly also asked Rove how Republicans intended to appeal to minority groups, especially Hispanics, after doing so much to alienate them in 2012. Rove pointed to Hispanic-voter turnout in Texas to argue that there was no fundamental disconnect between his party and Latino voters.

As many pundits and strategists have pointed out, the Obama campaign succeeded in large part because it appealed to -- and registered -- non-white voters, expanding (rather than suppressing) the vote in key battleground states.

In a subsequent segment, Kelly would cite "demographics" and a "racial divide in the voting booth" that "raised questions" about whether the GOP needed to do more to reach Latinos and African-Americans. "Why can't the Republicans do better with people of color?" she asked her guests.

Rove's appearance on Fox News follows the now-infamous moment from election night when he argued with Kelly and co-host Bret Baier over the network's decision to call Ohio for the president.
Rove: Obama won 'by suppressing the vote' | Politico.com

OAW
     
Games Meister
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Nov 8, 2012, 10:12 AM
 
Instead of expanding voters
Weren't the arguments that the polls were wrong based on D turn-out being impossible to expand since 2008? And I think Obama expanded his margins with minorities.

You know who suppressed the Republican vote? Mitt Romney.
     
Clinically Insane
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Nov 8, 2012, 10:27 AM
 
My dad called Romney "the Devil incarnate", to which I replied "you are watching way too much MSNBC".

Now Rove on the other hand...
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 08:58 AM
 
http://bangordailynews.com/2012/11/1...tential-fraud/

“In some parts of the state, there were dozens of black people who came in to vote,” Webster said. “Nobody in town knew them.”.
Webster bristled at the notion that his probe is racially motivated.

“It’s not about being black or Spanish or Chinese,” he said. “Every election I hear that hundreds of unfamiliar people come in to vote. It’s unfortunate that people will use the issue of being black. If you lived in a small town, you would know that if [an unfamiliar] black person or Chinese person comes to vote, it would seem odd.”
"Why are all these black people voting?! This isn't about them being black!"


Webster has crusaded against alleged voter fraud throughout his tenure at the helm of the Maine Republican Party. In July 2011, he produced a list of 206 college students from out of state as grounds for a voter fraud investigation by the Maine secretary of state’s office. In September 2011, Secretary of State Charlie Summers reported that investigators turned up no fraud resulting from Webster’s list.

In the interview with Carrigan, Webster also labeled presumptive Maine Senate President Justin Alfond, D-Portland, a socialist and said that Maine will have the “most liberal legislature in the country” when Democrats return to majority status in January.
FYI, Maine broke for Obama by 15 points.
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 09:24 AM
 
There aren't that many black people in Maine, true, and towns are small, yes... but you don't know everyone, Chuck. There's more than 12 black people in Maine now.
     
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Nov 16, 2012, 07:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Most countries have the Election Day on the weekend. Never understood why the US doesn't.
For the same reason the U.S. is the only country in the world where the political parties themselves handle the voting.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
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Nov 16, 2012, 01:15 PM
 
That really seems to be the core of the suppression problem overall.

When you set things up that way, what do you really expect?
     
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Nov 20, 2012, 04:10 AM
 
I figured this thread wouldn't be dying after the election.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2160820.html

During a Friday speech at the Ronald Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California, Walker spoke out about same-day voter registration, noting that it would be "much better" if the process was done in advance. He cited the strain on clerks as a primary reason.

"States across the country that have same-day registration have real problems because the vast majority of their states have poll workers who are wonderful volunteers, who work 13 hour days and who in most cases are retirees," Walker said, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. "It's difficult for them to handle the volume of people who come at the last minute."
Wisconsin early voting was also cut short by state Republicans. According to the Journal Sentinel, previous years saw the advance period start almost a month prior to Election Day, and end the day before regular voting began. In 2012, that timeframe was narrowed to two weeks, and ended the Friday before.
People exerting their rights is hard.
     
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Nov 27, 2012, 05:08 AM
 
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/ne...er-play/nTFDy/

A new Florida law that contributed to long voter lines and caused some to abandon voting altogether was intentionally designed by Florida GOP staff and consultants to inhibit Democratic voters, former GOP officials and current GOP consultants have told The Palm Beach Post.
“The Republican Party, the strategists, the consultants, they firmly believe that early voting is bad for Republican Party candidates,” Greer told The Post. “It’s done for one reason and one reason only. … ‘We’ve got to cut down on early voting because early voting is not good for us,’ ” Greer said he was told by those staffers and consultants.
Greer is now under indictment, accused of stealing $200,000 from the party through a phony campaign fundraising operation. He, in turn, has sued the party, saying GOP leaders knew what he was doing and voiced no objection.
Crist said party leaders approached him during his 2007-2011 gubernatorial term about changing early voting, in an effort to suppress Democrat turnout. Crist is now at odds with the GOP, since abandoning the party to run for U.S. Senate as an independent in 2010. He is rumored to be planning another run for governor, as a Democrat.
     
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Nov 27, 2012, 07:36 AM
 
I'm sure I said this earlier. I'm not sure what we expect to happen when we let elections be run by party operatives.
     
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Nov 27, 2012, 07:42 AM
 
How do other countries do it?
     
Clinically Insane
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Nov 27, 2012, 07:49 AM
 
Like I give a rat's ass how socialists do it.





I assume it's some sort of civil service job.
     
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Nov 27, 2012, 08:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I assume it's some sort of civil service job.
Is it something you get appointed to? Just curious how it remains outside the sphere of influence.
     
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Nov 27, 2012, 08:21 AM
 
I can only guess. Training? Some sort of merit based method of finding appointees?
     
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Nov 28, 2012, 02:19 AM
 
It occurs to me having a parliamentary structure might ease things up a bit, or at the least, tip the scales in favor of gerrymandering over suppression in terms of RoI.
     
 
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