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Secession, States, and Surveys
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Nov 15, 2012, 09:49 AM
 
Surprised there isn't a thread on this... apparently many states have gotten enough signatures to officially petition to secede and the President will have to respond. This was a legit link on the White House website, not some surveymonkey thing.

Is this just a headcount on how many crazies there are in the US? How will the rest of the state citizens say they don't agree with the petitioners, start another petition? A vote? What's the likelihood that these petitions are gamed/hacked?

How should the President respond?

How would the US economy suffer, if say, Texas, were to become another country? Imports, exports... Or would Texas suffer? At least it has a port though. Airline travel would become even more of a PITA.

Discuss.
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 09:51 AM
 
My understanding is they're not petitions to actually secede (legislatively) as much as for the President to acknowledge. As such, someone from Arkansas can sign a petition for all 50 states. Kind of colors the enthusiasm.

Still, the image of the south wanting to secede under a black president isn't ideal.
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 09:53 AM
 
I was surprised to read that this had happened in 2004 and 2008... must not have gotten as much press and been relegated to the "crackpot" bin.
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 09:59 AM
 
You'd thing it'd have gotten crazy press in '08.

Who wanted to secede in '04? I thought all the crazy liberals were threatening to move to Canada.
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 10:06 AM
 
One of the things Obama did to make the US government more accountable was to start the "We the people" website, where anyone can ask a question and someone else endorse that question. Any question that is endorsed 25000 times will get an official answer from the administration. Apparently some people are using that process to register their disapproval. It is in no way legally binding on anyone though - Obama can have some intern type "As if" for each of these petitions if he likes.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 10:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
One of the things Obama did to make the US government more accountable was to start the "We the people" website, where anyone can ask a question and someone else endorse that question. Any question that is endorsed 25000 times will get an official answer from the administration. Apparently some people are using that process to register their disapproval. It is in no way legally binding on anyone though - Obama can have some intern type "As if" for each of these petitions if he likes.
I'm fine with registering disapproval. I'm somewhat confused as to what they want to accomplish by petitioning Obama rather than trying a legislative route in their home states. I guess to make him look bad or have to give an uncomfortable answer?

I haven't given it much thought, but I'm not sure what you say to this. "Guys, it's only four more years. After Bush, I think you should suck it up and deal with it."
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 10:34 AM
 
Am I the only one who thinks registering your hatred of the government... with the government... isn't such a hot idea?
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 10:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Am I the only one who thinks registering your hatred of the government... with the government... isn't such a hot idea?
No, you're not the only one.

But maybe some of them think that this somehow amounts to legitimate criticism, that it might stimulate some change?
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 10:45 AM
 
That's certainly possible, however I'd say they are severely mistaken.
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 11:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
That's certainly possible, however I'd say they are severely mistaken.
I agree, although we probably disagree on the 'danger' of what they're doing. It just strikes me as terribly misguided and rather ignorant.
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 12:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I'm fine with registering disapproval. I'm somewhat confused as to what they want to accomplish by petitioning Obama rather than trying a legislative route in their home states. I guess to make him look bad or have to give an uncomfortable answer?
Plus clicking a button in your browser is way easier than figuring out who your local representative is.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 12:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by raleur View Post
I agree, although we probably disagree on the 'danger' of what they're doing. It just strikes me as terribly misguided and rather ignorant.
Not really sure what that's supposed to mean.
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 01:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Not really sure what that's supposed to mean.
Did the scarequotes throw you? They mean that the word 'danger' is suspect, and may not be the best word choice.
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 01:24 PM
 
What throws me is you feel confident in telling me my own opinion.

Where did you get the idea I these people are a danger?
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 02:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
What throws me is you feel confident in telling me my own opinion.
I'm sorry, but please explain how I was telling you your opinion.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
Where did you get the idea I these people are a danger?
I presume you meant to write "I think these people are a danger." Forgive me if I am wrong.

Anyway, if I am not wrong, I do not believe that you think these people are a danger. I believe you think that these people may be in danger. I believe that because you wrote:
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Am I the only one who thinks registering your hatred of the government... with the government... isn't such a hot idea?
To me, this suggests you believe that making such opinions known to the government can lead to harmful results.
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 03:26 PM
 
Ah... I misunderstood.

I wasn't clear on what you thought the danger was. Since you said they're "just stupid and ignorant", that implied (to me) you were saying they were stupid and ignorant instead of dangerous.

As for the harmful results, I'd say it's like going up to a cop and saying "look at me!"

Will that harm you? Not in and of itself, but how clean your nose is has all of the sudden become subject to scrutiny.
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 03:39 PM
 
By "misguided and ignorant," I'm referring to the people who think that secession would somehow make their life better.

I absolutely agree that calling attention to yourself when you propose treason is a spectacularly bad idea.
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 03:40 PM
 
what would they call their new country?

I guess they are not patriotic Americans

I for one would support it...
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 04:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by ironknee View Post
what would they call their new country?
Well you see, you know how there's Virginia and "West" Virginia? Well then we'd have Amurica and "Real" Amurica. They'd be even more patriotic than the rest of us.
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 05:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Well you see, you know how there's Virginia and "West" Virginia? Well then we'd have Amurica and "Real" Amurica. They'd be even more patriotic than the rest of us.
lol

i bet "Reel Amurica"

they would have to "import" TV and movies...good thing CNN is based in Atlanta
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 05:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I'm fine with registering disapproval. I'm somewhat confused as to what they want to accomplish by petitioning Obama rather than trying a legislative route in their home states. I guess to make him look bad or have to give an uncomfortable answer?
I haven't given it much thought, but I'm not sure what you say to this. "Guys, it's only four more years. After Bush, I think you should suck it up and deal with it."
I find it greatly ironic that, before Obama, they wouldn't have had a tool by which to express their unhappiness with Obama.
     
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Nov 15, 2012, 06:04 PM
 
New America! In between New Mexico and New Orleans. Divide it up into 50 states, including New New York and New New Mexico. Where do i sign?!
     
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Nov 16, 2012, 05:23 AM
 
Our first conservative returns!
     
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Nov 16, 2012, 05:53 AM
 
BadKosh doesn't count?
     
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Nov 16, 2012, 05:59 AM
 
He never left. Also, he posts from within his own bubble.
     
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Nov 16, 2012, 05:59 AM
 
I've seen him count to zero.
     
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Nov 16, 2012, 08:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
New America! In between New Mexico and New Orleans. Divide it up into 50 states, including New New York and New New Mexico. Where do i sign?!
Is there any way we can speed up the process? I'm keen to see what happens when the states leading our nation in government handouts and debt (with the exception of Texas, which is held afloat largely by its liberal revenue generating metropolis) actually secede from the Union. Don't forget you'll also need your own currency, military, interstate commerce infrastructure, and everything else you take for granted that you don't want to pay taxes for.
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Nov 16, 2012, 08:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
I find it greatly ironic that, before Obama, they wouldn't have had a tool by which to express their unhappiness with Obama.
You mean besides FOX News and voting?
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Nov 16, 2012, 10:42 AM
 
where would the capital be?

oh wait, no government in Hickmerica
     
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Nov 16, 2012, 11:13 AM
 
No roads or police, either.

Just a, well, un-regulated militia.
     
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Nov 16, 2012, 04:43 PM
 
I'm willing to bet that if all the teabaggers and libertarians left, nobody would really care that much.

What's funny to me is that a certain subset of those religions accept as unassailable fact the idea that the government is coming to get them. I can imagine those guys, one day after they secede, hunkered down in their bunkers, waiting for the black helicopters and ATF soldiers to show up at any minute- while the rest of us happily get on with our business.
     
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Nov 20, 2012, 10:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by raleur View Post
I'm willing to bet that if all the teabaggers and libertarians left, nobody would really care that much.
What's funny to me is that a certain subset of those religions accept as unassailable fact the idea that the government is coming to get them. I can imagine those guys, one day after they secede, hunkered down in their bunkers, waiting for the black helicopters and ATF soldiers to show up at any minute- while the rest of us happily get on with our business.
Where do you get this BS? Religion of conservatism? They probably wouldn't be hunkered down so much as aiming at the choppers, and taking shots with rifles with magnum rounds.
     
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Nov 20, 2012, 12:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
They probably wouldn't be hunkered down so much as aiming at the choppers, and taking shots with rifles with magnum rounds.
Thus the religion.
     
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Nov 21, 2012, 06:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by raleur View Post
Thus the religion.
Um....NO. lay off the crack for a month or two and when you can think clearly, try explaining it again.
     
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Nov 21, 2012, 09:20 AM
 
That wasn't an explanation. It was a simple statement that pointed out a fine example of religious dogma.
     
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Nov 21, 2012, 09:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
He never left. Also, he posts from within his own bubble.
     
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Nov 21, 2012, 05:58 PM
 
things one can bet on with Amercia

School:

Evolution is not taught...

Not even Creationism...

Straight to the bible
     
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Nov 22, 2012, 05:29 AM
 



For those of you who don't remember, the map is the 2004 electoral map, with a hat.
Liberals were too chicken to secede in 2004: they mostly just griped online and posted pictures where they held signs saying "I'm sorry" to the world.
Do Conservatives have the balls to pull it off this time?
     
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Nov 22, 2012, 08:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dork. View Post
For those of you who don't remember, the map is the 2004 electoral map, with a hat.
Liberals were too chicken to secede in 2004: they mostly just griped online and posted pictures where they held signs saying "I'm sorry" to the world.
Do Conservatives have the balls to pull it off this time?
Liberals cried for 4 years over that election, be prepared for the same from Republicans. FWIW, oftentimes it takes more balls to walk away from a bad situation.

Texas is really the only state that would remotely consider secession, and quite frankly I believe they would be successful as their own independent republic.
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Nov 22, 2012, 09:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Liberals cried for 4 years over that election, be prepared for the same from Republicans. FWIW, oftentimes it takes more balls to walk away from a bad situation.
It is kind of funny how it's almost the exact situation in reverse. Even down to the losers not understanding why they lost, and the winners having quite a chuckle at their expense.
     
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Nov 22, 2012, 09:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
It is kind of funny how it's almost the exact situation in reverse. Even down to the losers not understanding why they lost, and the winners having quite a chuckle at their expense.
IOW, politics as usual in the US of A.
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Nov 23, 2012, 01:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Texas is really the only state that would remotely consider secession, and quite frankly I believe they would be successful as their own independent republic.
Not sure where you live, Shaddim, but as a Texan who's been involved in local politics for years, I've heard that sentiment quite often- nothing remote about it.

It would probably work for a few years, too- until our already crumbling infrastructure completely fell apart.
     
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Nov 23, 2012, 02:07 PM
 
You'd have to change the flag, or else everybody would think you're Puerto Rico.
     
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Nov 23, 2012, 02:33 PM
 
Maybe George W. Bush could be the president of Texas?
     
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Nov 23, 2012, 03:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Maybe George W. Bush could be the president of Texas?
Interesting thought. Would Texas also have a "native born" clause in their new national constitution? If so, W wouldn't qualify, since he was born in a foreign country, the USA. Connecticut, to be exact.
     
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Nov 23, 2012, 05:12 PM
 
That clause in the US constitution has an exception for all people who were citizens at the time the Constitution was ratified. After all, it's hardly fair to penalize people who were born before the country even existed.
     
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Nov 23, 2012, 05:16 PM
 
Stupid law BTW.

Things would have turned out better with President Schwarzenegger.

I'm not joking.
     
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Nov 24, 2012, 10:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
You'd have to change the flag, or else everybody would think you're Puerto Rico.
I'm sure they could have the Puerto Rican flag second hand now that Puerto Rico seems to be joining the US. Would also save a lot of costs for the US to not have to replace all those flags with 50 stars.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Nov 24, 2012, 09:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Things would have turned out better with President Schwarzenegger.
Well, duh. Everything's better with Schwarzenegger.

I might have like Titanic if it had Schwarzenegger.
     
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Nov 27, 2012, 07:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Maybe George W. Bush could be the president of Texas?
but they seem to hate the presidency/government so much...oh wait maybe it's the president's race they hate
     
   
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