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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > It's time for America to start looking at other countries

It's time for America to start looking at other countries (Page 4)
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Jan 1, 2013, 04:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
There seems to be a lack of focus on scale.
What works in Iceland (320k people) might be a good idea to try in South Bend/Mishawaka metro (318k people), but lacks any demonstrated scale to the size of the whole US (320,000k people).
What policies should the US consider that have been demonstrated on a similar scale in terms of population and area? I'm not looking for exact matches, anything covering 200-500 million people and 5-20 million square km will do.
Regions of reasonably comparable population and size off the top of my head:
- Europe
- coastal China (inland to 300km?)
- South America
- the western half of the former USSR
- the Middle East
What uniform policies from any of those regions should the US be considering?

China has a population larger than anything in the history of the Earth so if they discarded ideas on the basis they are unproven on that scale they'd never do anything at all.
Obviously scale is a factor in the practicality of feasibility of some ideas but as far as policy is concerned scale should be an afterthought. Judge the policy on its other merits, then decide if scale is even relevant or not.
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Jan 1, 2013, 07:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
China has a population larger than anything in the history of the Earth so if they discarded ideas on the basis they are unproven on that scale they'd never do anything at all.
Obviously scale is a factor in the practicality of feasibility of some ideas but as far as policy is concerned scale should be an afterthought. Judge the policy on its other merits, then decide if scale is even relevant or not.
I'm not saying no policy scales. Many policies certainly scale and even when they fail in large countries (say rape in India) the problem isn't scale.

"Let all the banks fail" is cute in South Bend/Mishawaka, but doesn't scale when your banking system is a substantial portion of global commerce.

The discussion is pretty dead so I'm asking for the low handing fruit - examples of policies that have already been demonstrated to scale to US sized, but aren't implemented in the US. Europe has no common gun control policy, but urbanized China does - should be implement that in the US?
     
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Jan 1, 2013, 07:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Europe has no common gun control policy, but urbanized China does - should be implement that in the US?
Of course not, they're commies. We should only emulate countries we admire.
     
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Jan 2, 2013, 02:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
China has a population larger than anything in the history of the Earth so if they discarded ideas on the basis they are unproven on that scale they'd never do anything at all.
Obviously scale is a factor in the practicality of feasibility of some ideas but as far as policy is concerned scale should be an afterthought. Judge the policy on its other merits, then decide if scale is even relevant or not.
Suggesting that China is a model for use or nonuse of various policies is not a good example. As a heavily managed society, and with what I would call "questionable" motives for some high-level governmental decisions, it's not like their government has a mandate to govern for the good of the population...

Using other countries' experiences with various policies works only when you can very clearly show equivalence between both the problems to be addressed, and the populations (both size and makeup) with those problems. Good luck finding a country with our degree of social heterogeneity on a scale that matches any major metropolitan area in the U. S.

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Jan 2, 2013, 08:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
but as far as policy is concerned scale should be an afterthought.
All I know is if a Venture Capitalist ever says this to you, run far away.
     
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Jan 2, 2013, 09:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Suggesting that China is a model for use or nonuse of various policies is not a good example. As a heavily managed society, and with what I would call "questionable" motives for some high-level governmental decisions, it's not like their government has a mandate to govern for the good of the population...
Using other countries' experiences with various policies works only when you can very clearly show equivalence between both the problems to be addressed, and the populations (both size and makeup) with those problems. Good luck finding a country with our degree of social heterogeneity on a scale that matches any major metropolitan area in the U. S.
I think the only country on the planet that comes close to the US is Canada and we don't have the population scale. We have the same urban and suburban and rural population setups, and similar enough people and culture. We dont have any cities that match the scale of your mega cities like LA and New York. Toronto is the only city that can come close to the metropolitan size of some of the larger US cities. Vancouver and Montreal scale to the average large American city and places like Calgary, Edmonton, and so on match up nicely to American smaller cities.

But like the US every province is different from each other like each state in the US is different from each other. Texas has little in common with Washington. While BC has little in common with Alberta. BC and Washington have more in common with each other even though we are different countries. So its not just a question of finding a country to compare with. Its how you compare say Texas with another country and New York with another country.
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Jan 2, 2013, 01:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
I think the only country on the planet that comes close to the US is Canada and we don't have the population scale. We have the same urban and suburban and rural population setups, and similar enough people and culture.
Not even close.

US:
Black American 12.6%
Asian 4.8%
Hispanic/Latino (of any race) 16.3%

Canada: The largest visible minority groups are South Asian (4.0%), Chinese (3.9%) and Black (2.5%).

(thanks wackypedia)



Originally Posted by Athens View Post
But like the US every province is different from each other like each state in the US is different from each other. Texas has little in common with Washington. While BC has little in common with Alberta. BC and Washington have more in common with each other even though we are different countries. So its not just a question of finding a country to compare with. Its how you compare say Texas with another country and New York with another country.
Except the part where states aren't countries and aren't funded like countries.
     
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Jan 2, 2013, 04:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post

Not even close.
US:
Black American 12.6%
Asian 4.8%
Hispanic/Latino (of any race) 16.3%
Canada: The largest visible minority groups are South Asian (4.0%), Chinese (3.9%) and Black (2.5%).
(thanks wackypedia)
A lot of Canadians seem to think this, but it is probably understandable for urban Canadians to have a skewed sense of demographics given the incredible amount of urban diversity that exists. The UN recently identified Toronto as the most culturally diverse city in the world.
     
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Jan 3, 2013, 03:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Not even close.
US:
Black American 12.6%
Asian 4.8%
Hispanic/Latino (of any race) 16.3%
Canada: The largest visible minority groups are South Asian (4.0%), Chinese (3.9%) and Black (2.5%).
(thanks wackypedia)
Except the part where states aren't countries and aren't funded like countries.
Ever been to Canada. Know anything about Canada. Ya didn't think so. If you removed all speed and distance signs from a Canadian community and a American community in the same north south Longitude (exclude Quebec) you wouldn't be able to tell much difference between them. Urban city Canadians are very similar to Urban city Americans. Rural Canadians are very similar to rural Americans. Canadian and American farmers are exactly the same. American Eskimos are the same as Canadian Inuit.

I assure you that if you visited Calgary, you would be right at home since its Canada's oil country. Alberta is our Texas just colder

BTW those demographics really don't mean much. Ontario has a LOT of black people while western Canada has almost none. And Vancouver is over 65% Asian while a city like Kelowna its less then a percent. Thats just semantics. When it comes to culture, experiences, development Canada and the US are very much the same. Its like two brothers under the same roof. They fight a lot, put each other down, piss each other off but they are family and the brothers will always be there for each other. As much as we Bitch and complain and hate you, we also feel protective of you and got your back. No other 2 countries on the planet has the same kind of relationship we have.
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Jan 6, 2013, 05:16 PM
 
London is pretty diverse.

According to the Office for National Statistics, based on the 2011 Census estimates, 59.8 per cent of the 8,173,941 inhabitants of London were White, with 44.9 per cent White British, 2.2 per cent White Irish, 0.1 per cent gypsy/Irish traveller and 12.1 per cent classified as Other White.
20.9 per cent of Londoners are of Asian and mixed-Asian descent. 19.7 per cent of Londoners are of full Asian descent, with those of mixed-Asian heritage comprising 1.2 of the population. Indians account for 6.6 per cent of the population, followed by Pakistanis and Bangladeshis at 2.7 per cent each. Chinese peoples account for 1.5 per cent of the population, with Arabs comprising 1.3 per cent. A further 4.9 per cent of Londoners are classified as "Other Asian".
15.6 per cent of London's population are of Black and mixed-Black descent. 13.3 per cent of Londoners are of full Black descent, with those of mixed-Black heritage comprising 2.3 per cent of the population. Black Africans account for 7.0 per cent of London's population, with 4.2 per cent as Black Caribbean and 2.1 per cent as "Other Black".
5.0 per cent of Londoners are of mixed race.
In January 2005, a survey of London's ethnic and religious diversity claimed that there were more than 300 languages spoken and 50 non-indigenous communities with a population of more than 10,000 in London.
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