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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > The end of the American economic institution.

The end of the American economic institution. (Page 2)
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Games Meister
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Jan 23, 2013, 03:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
I can't see this as Rs vs Ds anymore. I can only see congress vs the people. The ruling class vs us. Rs and Ds to me is just a great way to distract the public.


I wish more people would wake up to that. The differences between Rs and Ds is so small as to be insignificant when talking about the very future our society and culture. Sure there are big social issue differences but fiscally, Rs and Ds just argue over how to spend the ever increasing confiscation of the people's wealth.

Abortion and Gay marriage won't seem like such big issues when our financial system resembles that of a 3rd world oligarchy, and you and I are struggling to put bread on the table.
Yeah, I don't see taxes as "confiscation of people's wealth."



Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
And I wish the forefathers had the foresight to include an amendment that allowed for a "system flush"

A referendum for a vote of no confidence on congress that when invoked and passed by 60-70% of the populace, removed all of the congressman from the house and/or senate and barred them from ever running again for the same office.

You best bet that collectively, should they feel that their power was slipping and they would suffer real consequences, they'd get their acts together.
Some would argue the second amendment is what provides that vote of no confidence.

Oh, that gerrymandering you were poo-pooing? That's an act of people who feel their power slipping.
     
Clinically Insane
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Jan 23, 2013, 03:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Isn't this a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation?

Yeah, I'd agree with that.

I wouldn't be surprised if for most politicians their salary is a pretty insignificant part of their overall income, but we don't have much power to affect their other sources of income in the short term, so I'd probably be in favor of this, I just wouldn't see it is a hugely powerful motivator.
     
Snow-i  (op)
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Jan 23, 2013, 04:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Yeah, I don't see taxes as "confiscation of people's wealth."
I don't see taxes in general that way, but I do see the continued deficit spending and debt inflation as exactly that. We our mortgaging the future for today's....what exactly are we buying with all this spending? A better future?


Some would argue the second amendment is what provides that vote of no confidence.

Oh, that gerrymandering you were poo-pooing? That's an act of people who feel their power slipping.

I would agree, however that is less of a "system flush" and more of a "system reboot" Reinstall the OS.

The 2nd amendment is the big red button. I would see "my" system as the smaller, orangish one.
( Last edited by Snow-i; Jan 23, 2013 at 04:22 PM. Reason: fixed analogy)
     
Clinically Insane
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Jan 23, 2013, 04:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
I don't see taxes in general that way, but I do see the continued deficit spending and debt inflation as exactly that. We our mortgaging the future for today's....what exactly are we buying with all this spending? A better future?

Here's the problem, as I see it...

Some on the left feel that in a healthy economy, some debt is okay so long as our debt holders recognize the power of our economy, particularly if the budget is balanced and we aren't adding to our debt in the same sort of unsustainable state that Obama inherited.

Some on the left feel that a healthy economy occurs when there are safety nets which allow people to take some risks, and when people's incomes are not being fully consumed by basic existence type expenses. After all, people will not create new businesses and take risks if they simply can't afford to do so or are afraid that whatever they build up will be destroyed by their natural health care expenses due to aging. The point of a safety net (and private insurance) is to spread risk, rather than making those affected fully absorb it.

Some on the right don't seem to see it this way, and feel that these safety nets do not enable people to add to the GDP, that it is better for these people to provide their own safety nets with their personal savings and being personally responsible with little to no government involvement.

The solution, I believe, is a balance of both, and I think that the right and left generally agree on this point, but in order to achieve this balance we need to cut through the absolutes, the ideological purity, the rhetoric, and do thorough cost/value type assessments. With the disarray of the Republican party and the general state of politics these days (both sides shouldering blame), political games trump rational, objective, pragmatic assessments.

The lack of rational, objective, pragmatic assessing is the true enemy of the right, not these ridiculous caricatures of the left as having the intelligence of a child in not understanding the principles of what sort of consequences exist when you spend more than you make, as it seems that Turtle and ebuddy seem to perceive the left.
     
Games Meister
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Jan 24, 2013, 10:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
I don't see taxes in general that way, but I do see the continued deficit spending and debt inflation as exactly that. We our mortgaging the future for today's....what exactly are we buying with all this spending? A better future?
That reminds me, you never did explain how all this was negatively impacting the economy.


Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
I would agree, however that is less of a "system flush" and more of a "system reboot" Reinstall the OS.

The 2nd amendment is the big red button. I would see "my" system as the smaller, orangish one.
I see what you're getting at.

---

Out of curiosity, what you think of going over the "Cliff"? I was okay with initially until ebuddy mentioned some reservations towards it (pre-election) and later I also heard some reservations from the other side about the possibility of stalling the economy from the sudden shedding of jobs. Of course I also saw a graph on how little the Cliff actually cuts overall and I'm just left completely at a loss of WTH to do anymore.
     
 
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