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Wealth distribution in the US
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Clinically Insane
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Mar 20, 2013, 12:38 PM
 
What do you think of this video of wealth infographics? Find any fault with it?

Wealth Inequality in America - YouTube
     
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Mar 20, 2013, 01:23 PM
 
The narrator confuses income and wealth around 3:40. Which makes me question if they clearly differentiated between wealth and income when polling.
     
Games Meister
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Mar 20, 2013, 02:11 PM
 
Ugh, a video...

Originally Posted by mduell View Post
The narrator confuses income and wealth around 3:40. Which makes me question if they clearly differentiated between wealth and income when polling.
God knows I can't keep it straight either. People have a lot of trouble with deficit/debt as well.
     
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Mar 22, 2013, 08:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
What do you think of this video of wealth infographics? Find any fault with it?
I wonder how they measured the wealth... hard cash, mutual funds, bonds, stocks, or income. In the video at 5:15 it says the top 1% own 50% of stocks, bonds and mutual funds; while the lower 50% own .5% of those securities.

It matters because if most their wealth is in stocks for example; ALL their stock wealth will be measured by the price of the last share sold; as if all rich people were to sell all their shares today they would get that 'high' value (not possible). Since many of these securities are pyramid schemes it creates a distortion, an inflated distortion of true wealth.

One mistake people make lately is focusing on individuals. It doesn't necessarily have to matter how much money a CEO has; it only matters what he's allowed to do to me to make my life worse, which isn't much off the top of my head. We are in the age of Neoliberalism; the Corporatrassic period, where corporations rule the earth. We should be more worried about the wealth and power wielded by the largest corporate interests/industry in collusion with government against individuals and small business.

If anyone does have a problem with it; keep in mind our government is the one facilitating this class division with things like litigation laws, overpriced permits for startup business, corporate subsidies, corporate grants, encouraging people to hand money to institutions by investing in stocks, and bailouts, which are still going on today. You might be able to do something about it by pulling your money from the stock market, cutting things like the cable, or smart phone when they try to charge you 10c/text or $70/mo phone bill. But people cant really complain when they're perfectly willing to hand CEOs all that money for all kinds of nothing they don't need.
     
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Mar 23, 2013, 01:26 AM
 
Different groups want to create class warfare as a diversion. Make rich individuals out to be the bad guys but ignore the mega-corps. "Apple has $170B in cash, isn't that cool?!" "That CEO has $500M, BOO!! String him up!" WTF kind of sense does that make?
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Mar 23, 2013, 09:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Different groups want to create class warfare as a diversion. Make rich individuals out to be the bad guys but ignore the mega-corps. "Apple has $170B in cash, isn't that cool?!" "That CEO has $500M, BOO!! String him up!" WTF kind of sense does that make?
you and el have nailed it here! This is exactly what I've been railing on for years. It's neo-liberalism; not your dad's liberalism. Look to any TBTF, they are created by regulations and a tax code only those with a battery of tax attorneys and legal consultants can navigate serving to keep startups and smaller outfits out of the game. The created monoliths enjoy a wink-nod relationship with government because they can facilitate enter government agenda here be it health insurance, pharmaceuticals, the green con... ACME CORP. A company that runs a shoddy model or outgrows its own income should be allowed to fail and the only reason they do not is because they are repeatedly propped up by the government under the ruse of helping all the employees of that company. It doesn't. That niche will be filled and if it has to filled by 8 smaller outfits and twice the people -- so be it. Sounds about right to me. How is it that a CEO of a major energy conglomerate can serve on the President's business advisory board while the conglomerate enjoys a zero tax rate? How is it the purveyor of the Buffet Rule and advisor to the President can successfully duke it out with the IRS over $1 billion in back taxes from 2002 while "the rich" individuals are being told that their 25% higher tax rate isn't "fair" enough? There's a lot of unfair shit going on and it begins with those who draft your laws. Get them the hell out of the way, they're just prolonging the agony with their endless tweaking and terrible ideas.
ebuddy
     
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Mar 23, 2013, 08:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
What do you think of this video of wealth infographics? Find any fault with it?
by the way what do you think of the video?
     
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Mar 23, 2013, 08:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
by the way what do you think of the video?

I think there is ample evidence to support the fact that there is obscene amounts of wealth in this country, rightly or wrongly, and that there is abuse of this. The precise numerical extent of this, I have no idea.
     
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Mar 23, 2013, 11:13 PM
 
Quite frankly, it's okay if the "right people" have wealth, but not others. All you have to do is get a good publicist and become a hero of the "common man" or be a slutty socialite and flash your privates. If you're generally entertaining you get a pass.
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Mar 23, 2013, 11:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Quite frankly, it's okay if the "right people" have wealth, but not others. All you have to do is get a good publicist and become a hero of the "common man" or be a slutty socialite and flash your privates. If you're generally entertaining you get a pass.

I've noticed that you tend to take a legitimate point that you have with a subset of the population and present this as some sort of general truth, making the whole concept a wash.
     
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Mar 24, 2013, 01:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I've noticed that you tend to take a legitimate point that you have with a subset of the population and present this as some sort of general truth, making the whole concept a wash.
For that subset, it is the general truth.

However, it can't be as bad as you posing to be neutral at the start of a discussion, only to later be struck by an epiphany... which just so happens to follow the typical DNC talking points?
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Mar 24, 2013, 01:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
For that subset, it is the general truth.

However, it can't be as bad as you posing to be neutral at the start of a discussion, only to later be struck by an epiphany... which just so happens to follow the typical DNC talking points?

I've been struck by no epiphanies, other than that I'm better than you, but that is more of a confirmation of an epiphany I had years ago.
     
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Mar 24, 2013, 09:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Quite frankly, it's okay if the "right people" have wealth, but not others. All you have to do is get a good publicist and become a hero of the "common man" or be a slutty socialite and flash your privates. If you're generally entertaining you get a pass.
And these are precisely the types who, when treated like the common man like to bust out the; "Do you know who I am?!?"
ebuddy
     
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Mar 24, 2013, 11:13 AM
 
The term "wealth" is too slippery for a broad survey to actually capture. Is a person with a particular level of income and savings wealthy? Maybe...depending on where they live, "how" they live, and a lot of other things. Some arbitrary numeric level of income and savings might sound impressive (in either direction), but location is extremely important; having the same income and savings and living in either San Francisco or Fargo would have extremely different effects on "wealth."

I think a better measure would have to do with "standard of living" or more likely some new construct based on a combination of income and assets, location, cost of living in that location, and a number of other, smaller factors (transportation issues, air quality, etc.). For example, my home is valued at near the bottom of the "middle price bracket" for my area, yet it is more than large enough for my family, it is in a very convenient location, and that location is quite comfortable and safe. Our family income is not near the bottom of the "middle income bracket," as we are both professionals with good levels of compensation, so we might appear to be quite well off, but none of that considers savings, liabilities, plans, retirement funding, or a number of other points that are both very important to the quality and comfort of our lives - and which are factors that tend to be poorly captured by surveys due to the "none of your business" factor. Further, I think it important to note changes in status for this sort of thing over time. As a young child, I experienced some very significant poverty, but over time my wife and I have built our careers to the point where we have few worries about money.

I can say that I am well enough off that I can handle it if all of a sudden I need 4 new tires on my car, but I am not yet to the point where I can buy custom tailored dress shirts. In other words, there is very little "worry factor" in my life, but also not too much "splurge factor" either.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
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Mar 24, 2013, 12:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
And these are precisely the types who, when treated like the common man like to bust out the; "Do you know who I am?!?"
Oh yeah, the "Morgan Freeman effect" or "Streisand stare".
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Mar 24, 2013, 12:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I've been struck by no epiphanies, other than that I'm better than you, but that is more of a confirmation of an epiphany I had years ago.
I know that's what you believe, I've known it for a very long time.
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Mar 24, 2013, 02:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I've been struck by no epiphanies, other than that I'm better than you, but that is more of a confirmation of an epiphany I had years ago.
LOL, if you took a vote around here, more people would pick to be Shaddim, rather than you, if they had to make a choice.

Of course, your delusional self would never accept that.

So keep telling yourself you're better. The better , maybe.

-t
     
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Mar 24, 2013, 02:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I've been struck by no epiphanies, other than that I'm better than you, but that is more of a confirmation of an epiphany I had years ago.
There's that typical DNC talking point, almost as if on cue.
     
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Mar 24, 2013, 08:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
LOL, if you took a vote around here, more people would pick to be Shaddim, rather than you, if they had to make a choice.

Of course, your delusional self would never accept that.

So keep telling yourself you're better. The better , maybe.

-t

Since when did mass consensus become truth in your world? Does this mean that man-made global warming is a thing?
     
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Mar 24, 2013, 08:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
There's that typical DNC talking point, almost as if on cue.

I like Shaddim okay, but it's just a fact that I'm better than him. I'm better than you too.
     
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Mar 25, 2013, 03:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
There's that typical DNC talking point, almost as if on cue.
I missed the DNC talking point about how good besson3c is. But it sounds like something they would say
     
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Mar 25, 2013, 03:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
I missed the DNC talking point about how good besson3c is. But it sounds like something they would say

The only people in the universe that haven't figured this out yet are the few remaining stragglers here on MacNN. Even ninjas have figured it out.
     
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Mar 25, 2013, 03:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
I missed the DNC talking point about how good besson3c is. But it sounds like something they would say
     
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Mar 25, 2013, 04:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
I missed the DNC talking point about how good besson3c is. But it sounds like something they would say
He's a better `merkin, obviously. No cover-up there.
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Clinically Insane
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Mar 26, 2013, 09:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Since when did mass consensus become truth in your world? Does this mean that man-made global warming is a thing?
Are you dense ?

This isn't about consensus, this is about choice.
And choice is rarely about truth, but all about preference.

Quit using the English language like a 1st grader in Bangladesh.

-t
     
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Mar 26, 2013, 12:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Are you dense ?

This isn't about consensus, this is about choice.
And choice is rarely about truth, but all about preference.

Quit using the English language like a 1st grader in Bangladesh.

-t

What are we talking about again?
     
Clinically Insane
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Mar 26, 2013, 12:27 PM
 
I don't care how much money someone has or makes, so long as they pay an appropriate tax rate. What I despise are all the loopholes of which only the rich get to take advantage. If you're under the retirement age and you're drawing money from dividends, interest, etc., then it should be taxed as income because that's exactly what it is. Exploiting special rules and brackets so rich people can get even more rich at the expense of the middle class is what I find objectionable.
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Clinically Insane
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Mar 26, 2013, 09:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
I don't care how much money someone has or makes, so long as they pay an appropriate tax rate. What I despise are all the loopholes of which only the rich get to take advantage. If you're under the retirement age and you're drawing money from dividends, interest, etc., then it should be taxed as income because that's exactly what it is. Exploiting special rules and brackets so rich people can get even more rich at the expense of the middle class is what I find objectionable.
Don't blame citizens for simply following tax laws, blame the government for giving them outs. I pay what I'm required to pay.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Mar 26, 2013, 09:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Don't blame citizens for simply following tax laws, blame the government for giving them outs. I pay what I'm required to pay.

I agree, although it is unfortunate and frustrating how resourceful and creative a subset of that wealthy class is at finding those outs.
     
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Mar 27, 2013, 09:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Don't blame citizens for simply following tax laws, blame the government for giving them outs. I pay what I'm required to pay.
That depends. This isn't pointed at you personally (because I don't know or care what you do), but once someone starts setting up shell companies or shifting assets offshore to hide them, they are not paying what is required of them.
     
   
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