Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Do You Have The Technical Skill To Take Out An Airliner?

View Poll Results: Do you?
Poll Options:
No 4 votes (57.14%)
Yes 3 votes (42.86%)
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll
Do You Have The Technical Skill To Take Out An Airliner?
Thread Tools
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 20, 2013, 07:46 PM
 
I figure this is a place where one can admit (at least by poll) they do without any fear of accidental confusion they actually intend to do so.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 20, 2013, 09:02 PM
 
What the?!? I wouldn't answer either way. For example, let's say I admit that I do not have the skill to take out an airliner and then one wants to get all up in my face.
ebuddy
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 20, 2013, 09:51 PM
 
Who is "one" in this scenario?

And why would they get up in your face for either answer?
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 20, 2013, 09:54 PM
 
NERD POLICE!

Show us your license and soldering iron.
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 12:29 PM
 
Are y'all seriously this afraid of the man?
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 12:36 PM
 
I'm curious what inspired this poll.
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 12:38 PM
 
OP will deliver, but I would prefer to wait for some answers first lest I soil the sample.
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 12:39 PM
 
There may be a TWiT angle...
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 12:40 PM
 
Fine. Only on XBOX.
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 12:41 PM
 
My answer is "yes", BTW.
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 12:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Fine. Only on XBOX.
I have a general idea of what most of the regulars would answer, but I admit I wasn't sure with you.
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 12:45 PM
 
Do you consider yourself to be a "hands on/get em' dirty" type?
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 12:48 PM
 
I'm this close to leaving the thread, so as not to dirty it with input from anyone who isn't named subego
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 01:02 PM
 
I am able to take an airliner out to dinner, but not to take one out of a movie, like an "out-take." What should I put in the poll?
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 01:03 PM
 
"Unique Snowflake".
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Standing on the shoulders of giants
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 01:15 PM
 
I can stop one being made, does that count?
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Nashua NH, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 01:22 PM
 
Being able to take out an airliner is one thing. Getting close enough to do it is another. Is it a particular airliner or any airliner? Is it just the plane or do you want the passengers too?
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 01:27 PM
 
With people.

You get close by buying a ticket.

If you don't feel suicidal, you can get a pawn to carry your payload, but they have to be able to get past security the same way you would if you were doing it personally.
     
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 01:29 PM
 
Do you need technical skill? If it's just sitting around, I suppose anyone could open the hood and pull out random wires, take a sledgehammer to the control panel, etc.

The skill is getting access, disabling it, and getting home again, without being caught.

edit: oh, so you mean take DOWN, not just take out... midflight, with people on board.

Get 20 suicidal friends. Each of you fill your 3oz shampoo bottles with something flammable...
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 01:33 PM
 
I'm talking where all the King's men aren't putting it back together "take out", while full of people.

Getting home is optional, but not getting caught isn't.
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 01:33 PM
 
I feel like we're heading for a TSA discussion.
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 01:35 PM
 
Dammit! I said wait!
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Nashua NH, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 01:40 PM
 
Hit it when it's taking off, most airports don't have enough setback at the end of the runway so they're still fairly close to the ground. There are quite a few ways to release all the energy stored in a running jet engine.

Or get a job at airbus and shave a few decimals off the tolerances for a hinge. Bonus: the bonus for saving a few $$$.
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 01:41 PM
 
You didn't say 'don't speculate.'
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 01:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
You didn't say 'don't speculate.'
I was hoping you would answer the "hands dirty" question before you went stampeding for the cl... speculation.
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 01:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV View Post
Hit it when it's taking off, most airports don't have enough setback at the end of the runway so they're still fairly close to the ground. There are quite a few ways to release all the energy stored in a running jet engine.

Or get a job at airbus and shave a few decimals off the tolerances for a hinge. Bonus: the bonus for saving a few $$$.
I think topic drift towards "how-to" is best avoided.
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 02:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I was hoping you would answer the "hands dirty" question before you went stampeding for the cl... speculation.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Do you consider yourself to be a "hands on/get em' dirty" type?
The answer is no.
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 02:18 PM
 
I guess ebuddy was right. I now have an uncontrollable desire to get up in your face.
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 02:26 PM
 
???
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 02:31 PM
 
Never mind. It was just gas.
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Nashua NH, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 05:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think topic drift towards "how-to" is best avoided.
We'll I can come up with several ways off the top of my head, none of them require any technical skill whatsoever. So everyone should be answering yes.
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 05:51 PM
 
This thread's pay-off better be good considering the suspense element now being built-in.
     
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 06:02 PM
 
Punchline: Subego works for homeland security. Expect knocks on all our doors.
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 06:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
This thread's pay-off better be good considering the suspense element now being built-in.
Don't try and deflect from ruining the surprise.
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maryland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 07:56 PM
 
There was one in the bar I was at a few weeks ago. Nasty fella.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 09:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Who is "one" in this scenario?
The airliner, man.

And why would they get up in your face for either answer?
They'd know I was vulnerable and they're waiting to get all up in my face. I'm not havin' it. Nope, won't answer.
ebuddy
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 21, 2013, 11:07 PM
 
Destroying stuff is easy. Aircraft are fragile.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 31, 2013, 03:47 PM
 
The basic thesis I was testing here was, with a sample of people skewed towards being interested in technology (like you'd find on a Mac help forum), how many people are clued-in to how simple something like this would be (assuming you were determined).

From there, considering the ease, what exactly could the TSA do to stop something like this? The answer as far as I can see is not a damn thing.

Aren't there genuinely useful things the TSA could be doing?
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 31, 2013, 05:51 PM
 
Thats the thing about terrorists and planes, if your goal is to just bring them down at random to create panic, its really not that difficult. At certain airports you could probably do it with a well thrown rock, you could certainly do it with a well-thrown grenade or a cheap & nasty rocket locket launcher. The logical conclusion is that either terrorists are very stupid/incompetent, or they simply don't want to bring down planes like that.

Of course the government position is that they want to hijack them and use them as missiles, but a policy of not surrendering to hijackers and shooting down planes when hijackers reveal themselves should be more effective than any number of strip searches.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 31, 2013, 08:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
a policy of not surrendering to hijackers and shooting down planes when hijackers reveal themselves
I don't care how easy it is to bring down a plane, it's still going to be a lot easier to simply let the air force do it for you
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 1, 2013, 12:41 AM
 
Out of curiosity, when was the last time a plane was successfully hijacked?

And, if it has been awhile as I believe it to be the case, is this because of the due diligence of the TSA, or because if you try, everybody on the plane knows F-16s are being scrambled, so you better take care of it yourself unless you want to become Sidewinder bait?
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 1, 2013, 04:00 PM
 
Terrorism is like kicking a hornets nest, you do it for the reaction. While the hornets are still terrorized from the last kick, there's not much to be gained by kicking it again until they settle down and start ignoring you again.
     
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 1, 2013, 04:01 PM
 
If by "a well thrown rock" you mean throwing a rock into an engine of plane in this situation;



then I don't think it would do much to knock it out of the sky... It is already in the process of gliding down, empty on fuel. It would take someone with the skill and coordination of a football player; and even then you're not guaranteed you could get a rock in a 100mph object. But you'd be guaranteed to be arrested.

Planes can fly with one engine and can glide/land with no engines. Simply taking out the engines and blowing holes in random places won't do the trick.

I can't think of a way to get into the cockpit without someone stopping me.
I don't have the skill to hack the navigation systems, or build a bomb, and I don't know anyone who does.
I don't want to kill myself so I would need a remote detonator which I have no skill for.
TSA may suck but I cant think of a way I could guarantee getting a bomb past them and don't think it's worth the gamble. So I don't have the skill to take out a plane.

If someone did put the time into acquiring such skills they would probably have a good job, a good life; in which case they wouldn't want to waste time taking out planes. This is where profiling comes in.

You must understand without profiling, such security falls flat on its face. The left calls profiling racist, unfair and demands that if 1 person get screened then everybody get unnecessary screening. It must be politically correct and fair. The importance of that trumps all else. They fail to realize even to the person who's selected every time, the process would be faster for them since the line would move faster.

The true purpose of TSA accomplishes 2 things. One is false sense of security. But Most important it puts you in a subordinate position to government as a reminder of who's dominant, who's in control, no matter how senseless the action is; it gets you used to waiting in lines. It should be noted that the only people who can rise up, fight the government, to create change are wealthy organizations, or wealthy people. Government has a solution to this though. Organizations don't fly; but wealthy people who work for them do. And guess who gets to cut the TSA lines? You guessed it. First class passengers and high mileage/credit card club members of the airline. Interesting union between non biased government and corporation.

Currently you can pay off this mafia and acquire a 'global entry' pass which allows you run passed passport control and customs completely unchecked. Soon this program will transcend to TSA allowing certain people to bypass security. I know this because a couple days ago when I got up to TSA I asked, " What do I have to do to unfairly cut in front of everyone else, is there someone I have to pay off? " And TSA answered very professionally how I could do this in the future... since I don't have airline club cards. It probably wont speed up your line though since it comes with cutting; I've notice the lines take 20 min longer now since they're constantly cutting.

The true security comes from the background checks, and profiling, assuming the person doing them isn't being lazy that day. You and most the people in the world have a data profile with the government. Other offices of DHS have partial access to these and can use this in conjunction with racial, religious, accent, affiliation, dress, tattoos, nationality, number of friends, number of kids, family, age, to profile people before they get on the plane or connect. The 911 terrorists could have been profiled by the fact they were illegal, known terrorist affiliation, muslim, armed to the teeth with cans of tear gas knives etc..

Profiling... not TSA's politically correct line of fairness that allows Gold card members to cut, is how the government catches most its airport criminals, they just don't advertise it. I see arrests by police or Border Protection all the time on international flights. You'll see police or agents standing by the gate or boarding the plane. When they find their targets they don't cuff, they just ask them to come with them to a back room.
“It’s not what you look at that matters, it’s what you see”
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 1, 2013, 04:02 PM
 
Hijackings are pretty rare by their nature. How many have even happened in the past 30 years?
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Standing on the shoulders of giants
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 1, 2013, 04:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
If by "a well thrown rock" you mean throwing a rock into an engine of plane in this situation;
Gas turbines go through pretty strenuous tests before being certified to power an aircraft. One of these is the bird strike. While a rock would seriously fcuk up the engine, it wouldn't destroy the aircraft.
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 1, 2013, 04:56 PM
 
I'm with Eddie Izzard in that "bird strike" is really more like "engine suck".
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Nashua NH, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 1, 2013, 05:01 PM
 
Drychem from a fire extinguisher > rock. Also you attack it on takeoff not approach. Takeoff is easier for the pilot but there are few to no recovery options and most commercial pilots these days aren't test pilot caliber.
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 1, 2013, 05:07 PM
 
Dude...

People really frown on this sort of discussion.
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 1, 2013, 05:09 PM
 
Bottom line is your sample size sucked.
     
subego  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Apr 1, 2013, 05:30 PM
 
I'd say it's pretty consistent with what I was expecting.

People who are handy feel like they could pull it off.
     
 
Thread Tools
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:01 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2015 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2