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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > What's the deal with Pope Francis?

What's the deal with Pope Francis? (Page 2)
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Clinically Insane
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Sep 17, 2013, 07:53 PM
 
P.S. Chongo, would it bother you if the Pope supported civil unions?
     
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Sep 17, 2013, 11:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
P.S. Chongo, would it bother you if the Pope supported civil unions?
Did Pope Francis make an ex cathedra statement in support of "gay civil unions?"
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Clinically Insane
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Sep 18, 2013, 12:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Hate the sin, not the sinner!!!

How about "hate the sin and keep that to yourself, and not the sinner"?

I could do without religious activism.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 03:27 AM
 
Subego, would it annoy you if I answered every question you asked me with another question?
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 09:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
"gay civil unions"
lol

C'mon guys, we already have the terms gay marriage and civil unions. Do we really need to to take it to the next level by calling them gay-civil unions?
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 11:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
lol

C'mon guys, we already have the terms gay marriage and civil unions. Do we really need to to take it to the next level by calling them gay-civil unions?
My sister is in a civil union. She and her husband did not marry in the church, a justice of the peace performed the ceremony.
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Sep 18, 2013, 11:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
My sister is in a civil union. She and her husband did not marry in the church, a justice of the peace performed the ceremony.
And?
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 11:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
And?
yep, she's living in sin.
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Sep 18, 2013, 12:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
yep, she's living in sin.
Are you joking? Please tell me you are joking.
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Sep 18, 2013, 01:10 PM
 
Thanksgiving must be a hoot at the Chongo family.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 01:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
yep, she's living in sin.
I can't tell if you're serious, but I'm still not seeing the connection to the gay civil marriage comment.
     
Clinically Insane
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Sep 18, 2013, 01:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
lol

C'mon guys, we already have the terms gay marriage and civil unions. Do we really need to to take it to the next level by calling them gay-civil unions?
Not gay-civil unions... "gay-civil unions". You forgot the scare quotes.
     
Clinically Insane
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Sep 18, 2013, 01:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Did Pope Francis make an ex cathedra statement in support of "gay civil unions?"
What exactly do you think you're protecting yourself from by refusing to state your opinion?

Question still stands BTW. We can pretend I just wrote it a fifth time.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 01:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Not gay-civil unions... "gay-civil unions". You forgot the scare quotes.
And then I called it gay civil marriage by accident.


...and this why it's all going to be marriage, whether you like it or not.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 01:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
And then I called it gay civil marriage by accident.


...and this why it's all going to be marriage, whether you like it or not.
You also forgot the hyphen, which represents the sodomization of both marriage and civility.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 01:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Question still stands BTW. We can pretend I just wrote it a fifth time.
Oh come on, that answers the question, I would think. I find Chongo to be slippery when confronted with, well, anything, but when when it becomes clear he's not going to address the question I feel like this starts to descend into harassment.


I'm still trying to figure out why if he shifted positions by taking until the end of page one to tell us the OPs assumption was mistaken after giving us the "Everybody already knows that" write-off earlier on.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 01:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Oh come on, that answers the question, I would think. I find Chongo to be slippery when confronted with, well, anything, but when when it becomes clear he's not going to address the question I feel like this starts to descend into harassment.
Not really. I'm not interested in pinning Chongo into a corner, I want to have a discussion. I can't have a discussion if I don't know details of his position.

I am at best a lapsed Catholic if a Catholic at all. I can only assume what it's like to be part of the Pope's flock and have him adopt a stance I disagree with.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 01:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Not really. I'm not interested in pinning Chongo into a corner, I want to have a discussion. I can't have a discussion if I don't know details of his position.
This may be labelled a personal attack, but this is the truth from where I'm sitting; Chongo rarely does discussions, let alone personal ones. This thread would be the longest I've seen him interact with people without going AWOL. His repertoire mostly consists of images, seemingly unrelated one-off comments, and anything-that-sticks argument derails.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 01:52 PM
 
So, we've got him doing it the longest he ever has, which means it's time to haul out on him?

What exactly is your thought process here? Multiple style critiques isn't what this thread is missing.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 02:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
What exactly is your thought process here? Multiple style critiques isn't what this thread is missing.
...

I feel like this starts to descend into harassment
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 02:09 PM
 
So you defend him from harassment by sharing your low opinion of him?

You're really not helping.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 02:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
So you defend him from harassment by sharing your low opinion of him?
Well, the conversation kept going. And all things being equal, I'd rather a forum poster have a low opinion of me than keep asking me the same question.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 02:17 PM
 
That's because your you. You make 20 posts a day and pride yourself on witty rejoinders.

This situation would never occur with you.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 02:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
This situation would never occur with you.
The situation wouldn't happen with most posters because in the PL when a difficult post arrives the person usually leaves the thread for an extended period of time so they don't have to deal with it.
     
Clinically Insane
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Sep 18, 2013, 02:35 PM
 
You're managing to talk about literally everybody except the people under discussion.

Are you becoming a PWL guy?
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 02:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
You're managing to talk about literally everybody except the people under discussion.

Are you becoming a PWL guy?
I talked about Chongo, then I talked about myself, then I talked about everyone else. There is no pleasing you in this instance.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 03:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
This may be labelled a personal attack, but this is the truth from where I'm sitting; Chongo rarely does discussions, let alone personal ones. This thread would be the longest I've seen him interact with people without going AWOL. His repertoire mostly consists of images, seemingly unrelated one-off comments, and anything-that-sticks argument derails.
Oh oh oh! Do me next!
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 03:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
Oh oh oh! Do me next!
Don't need to, you've already described yourself some time ago.
     
Clinically Insane
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Sep 18, 2013, 03:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I talked about Chongo, then I talked about myself, then I talked about everyone else. There is no pleasing you in this instance.
Whoa. Hold the phone.

You questioned my behavior towards Chongo, I defended my behavior.

Your reply to my defense was to discuss yourself.

I responded with an explanation how this doesn't apply to Chongo, heretofore the subject of our discussion.

Your response is (paraphrasing) "everyone who isn't me and Chongo behaves this way".

From my perspective you're changing the subject instead of replying to what I'm saying.


Now, to be clear, I'm not arguing you're changing the subject from some objective viewpoint, only it looks that way from where I'm standing. I'm willing to cut you slack if you cut me some.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 03:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
Oh oh oh! Do me next!
Canadian.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 04:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Whoa. Hold the phone.

You questioned my behavior towards Chongo, I defended my behavior.

Your reply to my defense was to discuss yourself.
I was explaining/demonstrating why I held my position. Empathy, if you will.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 04:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Don't need to, you've already described yourself some time ago.
Heaven forbid we should have little fun around here.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 04:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
You're managing to talk about literally everybody except the people under discussion.

Are you becoming a PWL guy?
I believe "denizen" is the word he used to use to describe them...
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 04:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
Heaven forbid we should have little fun around here.
That's what the regular lounge is for.


Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I believe "denizen" is the word he used to use to describe them...
Oh man, it's been a while since I've said that, but yes, true.
     
Clinically Insane
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Sep 18, 2013, 04:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I was explaining/demonstrating why I held my position. Empathy, if you will.
Okay. Makes sense.

I ask you to be empathetic to my position, which is genuine interest in what Chongo actually thinks about this. Letting things slide accomplishes nothing in that regard.

I'd venture you think I have a less savory motive, and are judging my actions based on that assumption.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 04:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Okay. Makes sense.

I ask you to be empathetic to my position, which is genuine interest in what Chongo actually thinks about this. Letting things slide accomplishes nothing in that regard.

I'd venture you think I have a less savory motive, and are judging my actions based on that assumption.
Oh god no. I don't think you're being underhanded, I just think you're being at the very least annoying, at worst harassing. Between a kid asking someone uncomfortable questions and a spouse who just won't let a point drop.

I understand you're interest, I just think you're barking up the wrong tree.
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 05:18 PM
 
Surely this thread needs more Pope, and less bickering?



Look, he's kissing a baby!

No wait, he's eating its brains!

WHICH IS IT
     
Clinically Insane
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Sep 18, 2013, 05:43 PM
 
WRONG!!!!i!
     
Clinically Insane
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Sep 18, 2013, 06:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
and a spouse who just won't let a point drop.
You let me and Chongo run our gay-civil union however we want!
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 07:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
That's what the regular lounge is for.
So many imaginary rules! I can't keep up!
     
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Sep 18, 2013, 11:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
You let me and Chongo run our gay-civil union however we want!
Yeah, who does he think he is, the pope?
     
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Sep 19, 2013, 09:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
So many imaginary rules! I can't keep up!
I wonder how you survive in the PL.
     
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Sep 19, 2013, 09:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
You let me and Chongo run our gay-civil union however we want!
This is the best finish we could hope for.
     
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Sep 19, 2013, 12:00 PM
 
More fuel for the "I like this guy" fire
Pope Francis: Church can't 'interfere' with gays – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs
Pope Francis said the church has the right to express its opinions but not to "interfere spiritually" in the lives of gays and lesbians, expanding on explosive comments he made in July about not judging homosexuals.

In a wide-ranging interview published Thursday, the pope also said that women must play a key role in church decisions and brushed off critics who say he should be more vocal about fighting abortion and gay marriage.

Moreover, if the church fails to find a "new balance" between its spiritual and political missions, the pope warned, its moral foundation will "fall like a house of cards."

When Francis was a bishop in Buenos Aires, Argentina, he received letters from gays and lesbians who said they were "socially wounded" by the church, he said.

...

"By saying this, I said what the catechism says," the pope told Spadaro. The catechism, the Catholic Church's book of official doctrine, condemns homosexual acts, but says gays and lesbians "must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity."
Sounds like he's laying a foundation for saying the church should stay out of political matters regarding teh gheys.
     
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Sep 20, 2013, 11:37 AM
 
Just as Jesus did not condemn the "woman caught in adultery" He forgave her and told "Go and sin no more"

And the next day....

Pope condemns abortion as product of ‘throwaway culture’ | CatholicHerald.co.uk

Latest News
Pope condemns abortion as product of ‘throwaway culture’
By Francis X Rocca on Friday, 20 September 2013

In his strongest public words to date on the subject of abortion, Pope Francis affirmed the sacredness of unborn human life and linked its defence to the pursuit of social justice.

The Pope told a gathering of Catholic gynaecologists: “In all its phases and at every age, human life is always sacred and always of quality. And not as a matter of faith, but of reason and science.”

Pope Francis characterised abortion as a product of a “widespread mentality of profit, the ‘throwaway culture’, which has today enslaved the hearts and minds of so many.”

That mentality, he said, “calls for the elimination of human beings, above all if they are physically or socially weaker. Our response to that mentality is a decisive and unhesitating ‘yes’ to life.”

The Pope grouped together unborn children, the aged and the poor as among the most vulnerable people whom Christians are called especially to love.

“In the fragile human being each one of us is invited to recognise the face of the Lord, who in his human flesh experienced the indifference and solitude to which we often condemn the poorest, whether in developing countries or in wealthy societies,” he said.

“Every unborn child, though unjustly condemned to be aborted, has the face of the Lord, who even before his birth, and then as soon as he was born, experienced the rejection of the world,” he said. “And every old person, even if infirm and at the end of his days, carries with him the face of Christ. They must not be thrown away!”

Quoting Caritas in Veritate, the social encyclical by Pope Benedict XVI, Pope Francis connected the protection of unborn life with the promotion of social justice.
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
     
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Sep 20, 2013, 12:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Just as Jesus did not condemn the "woman caught in adultery" He forgave her and told "Go and sin no more"

And the next day....

Pope condemns abortion as product of ‘throwaway culture’ | CatholicHerald.co.uk
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
It's not the predictable instances where that are noteworthy.
PS: From my previous post
Some American Catholics grumble that Francis has been largely silent on signature Catholic political issues.

...

“We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods," he told his Jesuit interviewer. "I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that."

But the pope said the church's teachings on those issue are clear, and he clearly believes in those teachings, so what else is there to say?

"It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time," Francis said.


I'm with Shaddim on this:
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I don't get why you're trying to make the people on the forum hate him.
     
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Sep 20, 2013, 04:09 PM
 
And than the very next day he speaks before a group of OB-GYN's and tells them to refuse to perform abortions.
"By saying this, I said what the catechism says," the pope told Spadaro. The catechism, the Catholic Church's book of official doctrine, condemns homosexual acts, but says gays and lesbians "must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity."
Do you know what the entire section of Catechism says about homosexuals?
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Sep 20, 2013, 04:44 PM
 
I know what this is, I believe. This morning I had breakfast with a conservative member of the RC clergy, a deacon not a priest, and from what I can tell he wanted another hardliner like Benedict. Someone who would "bring the sword" and fight for fundamentalist Catholic positions, because in his words "the world is going to Hell in a hamper". Privately, he conceded that Francis isn't that guy, but he wants him to be, and the more the Right Wing of the RCC screams and wails, maybe he'll take a more aggressive position and stand up for some of the values they believe are currently a necessity. If moderate and liberal elements, within the Church and without, continue to rally behind his "progressive" views (Jesuits are the most worldly of the Orders) it will only cement his present inclinations. Quite simply, if you like him, they don't see how they can.

Personally, I believe he's the most liberal pope elected in the last 1000 years, perhaps of all time. The installation of a Jesuit was a coup of monumentally epic proportions and the entire organization is still reeling, re. "WTF just happened?!" This fellow makes JPII appear to be downright conservative, and Benedict a throwback from before the Age of Enlightenment.

Reconciliation with other Orthodox traditions? Bank on it (including concessions and reparations).
Married priests? Quite likely.
Female priests? It isn't off the table. If he changes that, you'll see a female bishop consecrated within a year.
Vatican III? Mark your calendar.

I'm forecasting more substantive changes within the RCC, in the next decade, than there have been since the Apostle Peter hopped a boat to Italy.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Sep 20, 2013, 04:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
And than the very next day he speaks before a group of OB-GYN's and tells them to refuse to perform abortions.

Do you know what the entire section of Catechism says about homosexuals?
Actually, he told them that "in good conscience" they should refuse to do abortions.

As for other issues; gays, the clergy, etc., wait until Vatican 3 gets announced. It'll be a sight to behold.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Sep 20, 2013, 04:53 PM
 
“The church has spoken on this matter. The door is closed.”
Pope Francis on the ordination of women.
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
     
 
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