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What's the deal with Pope Francis? (Page 6)
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Clinically Insane
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Oct 22, 2013, 02:53 PM
 
If God really is this tribal god of the ancient Jews who has risen to prominence via the success of worship, the atheists are sooo screwed.

If god is this power beyond human reckoning, I'd guess human pettiness is beyond it as well.
( Last edited by subego; Oct 22, 2013 at 03:12 PM. )
     
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Oct 22, 2013, 03:09 PM
 
I worship him everyday when I have time, how come I'm not doing as good as all the atheists............
Atheists look like a good life =________________=
     
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Oct 23, 2013, 01:38 AM
 
Found em!

Water Wheel wafer crackers. Water Wheel is an Australian brand. Just had some with prosciutto. Yummy!

     
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Oct 23, 2013, 02:34 AM
 
I'd say people are more familiar with these: Communion Wafers Box of 1000: Broadman Press: 0081407003856: Amazon.com: Books

They're flavorless, ~ the size of a quarter, and a little chewy. Not really great for snacking.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Oct 23, 2013, 10:24 AM
 
BBC News - Vatican suspends 'bishop of bling' Tebartz-van Elst

"Pope Francis's decision offers the chance of a first step toward a new beginning in the Limburg diocese, because the situation has become an increasing burden for the faithful there, and in all of Germany, over recent weeks."

Awww yeah
     
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Oct 23, 2013, 10:51 AM
 
Speaking of Bishops, this was mentioned in a FB post by Catholic Memes:

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 1580
1580 In the Eastern Churches a different discipline has been in force for many centuries: while bishops are chosen solely from among celibates, married men can be ordained as deacons and priests. This practice has long been considered legitimate; these priests exercise a fruitful ministry within their communities. Moreover, priestly celibacy is held in great honor in the Eastern Churches and many priests have freely chosen it for the sake of the Kingdom of God. In the East as in the West a man who has already received the sacrament of Holy Orders can no longer marry.
(emphasis added)
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
     
Clinically Insane
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Oct 23, 2013, 10:55 AM
 
Germany has a church tax, still? 10B Euro in 2012? Fuuuuuuck me. The atheists over here would piss out dime-sized kidney stones*.




*and I would too, FTM.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Oct 23, 2013, 10:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Speaking of Bishops, this was mentioned in a FB post by Catholic Memes:

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 1580
(emphasis added)
Oriental churches in communion with Rome, you mean? That's hardly representative of them all (actually ~25%).
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Oct 23, 2013, 10:12 PM
 
That is what I said to begin with.
     
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Oct 30, 2013, 11:45 AM
 
     
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Oct 30, 2013, 03:41 PM
 
     
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Nov 3, 2013, 03:12 AM
 
Just in case you missed it

     
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Nov 9, 2013, 06:51 AM
 
     
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Nov 9, 2013, 10:17 PM
 
...a thousand dry heaves?
     
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Nov 28, 2013, 06:48 AM
 
From Evangelii Gaudium/ The Joy of the Gospel by Pope Francis.

”The reservation of the priesthood to males, as a sign of Christ the Spouse who gives himself in the Eucharist, is not a question open to discussion, but it can prove especially divisive if sacramental power is too closely identified with power in general. It must be remembered that when we speak of sacramental power ‘we are in the realm of function, not that of dignity or holiness’.”
     
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Nov 28, 2013, 11:30 AM
 
That's the funny thing about stuff which isn't open to discussion.

It's only not open to discussion until it is.
     
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Nov 28, 2013, 12:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
That's the funny thing about stuff which isn't open to discussion.

It's only not open to discussion until it is.
Truth. Function is the key, and right now there really aren't enough male priests for them to function.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
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Dec 1, 2013, 06:37 AM
 
Just for Laminar.

Bringing in the heaves, bringing in the heaves,
We shall come rejoicing, bringing in the heaves

     
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Dec 2, 2013, 02:24 PM
 
You can always depend on El Rushbo to say something downright idiotic because Pope Francis dared to offer some mild criticism about the perils of unfettered capitalism run amok.

Rush Limbaugh: Pope is preaching 'pure Marxism'; – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Dec 2, 2013 at 02:34 PM. )
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 03:12 PM
 
Limbaugh's argument is "unfettered capitalism" doesn't exist, and claims it does are Marxist.

He's being flip, but that's not exactly wrong. Unfettered capitalism doesn't exist. It's only trotted out by people who have an agenda against the fettered kind. Those people approach, if not reach, the Marxist end of the scale.

I can't stand Limbaugh, but I've learned never to trust someone else's analysis of one of his 4,000 word rants. Same goes for Glenn Beck.
     
OAW
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Dec 2, 2013, 03:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Limbaugh's argument is "unfettered capitalism" doesn't exist, and claims it does are Marxist.

He's being flip, but that's not exactly wrong. Unfettered capitalism doesn't exist. It's only trotted out by people who have an agenda against the fettered kind. Those people approach, if not reach, the Marxist end of the scale.

I can't stand Limbaugh, but I've learned never to trust someone else's analysis of one of his 4,000 word rants. Same goes for Glenn Beck.
Well if we are going to go there then "Marxism" it the pure sense of the term doesn't exist either. So the question then becomes, should the critiques against the systems that do exist be summarily dismissed out of hand by labeling them as something else that does not exist?

OAW
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 03:24 PM
 
They're apples and oranges. One is an economic system, the other is a philosophy.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 03:28 PM
 
Jesus, who cares. Limbaugh spews hundreds of inaccurate things a day. Show me someone who isn't an inflammatory talking head bitching about his comments.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 03:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
They're apples and oranges. One is an economic system, the other is a philosophy.
Well then substitute "communism" for "Marxism". Yes I know they are not exactly the same thing from a technical standpoint but they are often utilized interchangeably in the vernacular sense. So my question remains ... should a critique against "unfettered capitalism" (which doesn't technically exist) be summarily dismissed out of hand by labeling it "communism" (which also doesn't technically exist)?

OAW
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 03:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Jesus, who cares. Limbaugh spews hundreds of inaccurate things a day. Show me someone who isn't an inflammatory talking head bitching about his comments.
It's important because I've lost count of how many times what the guy says gets distorted.

In one sense, since I intently dislike him, and he's a distortionist himself, I shouldn't be bothered when distortion happens to him.

In another sense, you should take note when people who claim to report the news, are so blinded by rage they can't get basic facts right.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 04:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
It's important because I've lost count of how many times what the guy says gets distorted.

In one sense, since I intently dislike him, and he's a distortionist himself, I shouldn't be bothered when distortion happens to him.

In another sense, you should take note when people who claim to report the news, are so blinded by rage they can't get basic facts right.
Him being a victim of his own tactics is called karma. There's better news to give the media shit for being inaccurate on.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 04:15 PM
 
In the sense there are bigger and more important specific examples? No question.

In terms of how endemic the situation is to the whole of journalism? I'm not sure about that. The consistency with which it happens kinda scares the shit out of me. With the exception of Sandra Fluke, I can't recall a single time when someone has put up a Limbaugh or Beck quote, where if you go back to the original transcript, it's been taken wholly out of context.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 04:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Well then substitute "communism" for "Marxism". Yes I know they are not exactly the same thing from a technical standpoint but they are often utilized interchangeably in the vernacular sense. So my question remains ... should a critique against "unfettered capitalism" (which doesn't technically exist) be summarily dismissed out of hand by labeling it "communism" (which also doesn't technically exist)?

OAW
We're having some semantic disconnect here.

Marxism is a philosophy. Communism is a form of government. Capitalism is an economic system.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 04:19 PM
 
I have to say, I'm really at odds with what you consider the important facets of topics today.
     
OAW
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Dec 2, 2013, 04:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
We're having some semantic disconnect here.

Marxism is a philosophy. Communism is a form of government. Capitalism is an economic system.
The delineation between the political and the economic is not so clear cut. One often bleeds into the other. That being said, communism advocates the public ownership of property (or at least the means of production). Whereas capitalism is rooted in the private ownership of property. So in that respect they are both economic systems and polar opposites ... hence the inherent tension between the them.

OAW
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 04:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I have to say, I'm really at odds with what you consider the important facets of topics today.
The facet I'm attempting to focus on is journalists think of themselves as far less biased than they actually are, which basically calls into question the entirety of journalism.

I'd say that's an important facet.

I'm not claiming the Limbaugh-Beck example qualifies as absolute proof of my thesis, it is merely an example consistent with my overall claim. The claim is journalists are more biased then they realize. If this is true, you would not be surprised to find a repeated inability to analyze commentary from someone they dislike.

What do we have? A repeated inability to analyze commentary from someone they dislike.

Attaching this to the topic, a far more damning example, along with being a far more important issue, is sexual abuse rates by teachers, along with identical cover-up practices, are equivalent to those in the Catholic Church.

You only hear about one of these? Why do you think that is?
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 04:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Attaching this to the topic, a far more damning example, along with being a far more important issue, is sexual abuse rates by teachers, along with identical cover-up practices, are equivalent to those in the Catholic Church.

You only hear about one of these? Why do you think that is?
Everyone already hates teachers.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 05:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
The delineation between the political and the economic is not so clear cut. One often bleeds into the other. That being said, communism advocates the public ownership of property (or at least the means of production). Whereas capitalism is rooted in the private ownership of property. So in that respect they are both economic systems and polar opposites ... hence the inherent tension between the them.

OAW
I'm trying not to lose the original chain here...

The key point goes beyond unfettered capitalism not existing. No one of any import actually espouses that policy. It's a boogeyman.

This is not the case with Marxism and communism.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 05:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm trying not to lose the original chain here...

The key point goes beyond unfettered capitalism not existing. No one of any import actually espouses that policy. It's a boogeyman.
Alan Greenspan was the chair of the Fed.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 08:47 PM
 
Is unfettered capitalism what he espouses?
     
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Dec 3, 2013, 11:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Is unfettered capitalism what he espouses?
Oh yes. Greenspan is an acolyte of Ayn Rand.
     
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Dec 3, 2013, 11:47 AM
 
     
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Dec 3, 2013, 11:53 AM
 
Oh boy.
     
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Dec 3, 2013, 12:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post

Attaching this to the topic, a far more damning example, along with being a far more important issue, is sexual abuse rates by teachers, along with identical cover-up practices, are equivalent to those in the Catholic Church.

You only hear about one of these? Why do you think that is?
There was a child porn bust in Canada last month.

LifeSiteNews Mobile | Police make massive international child-porn bust: schoolteachers top the list of offenders

Of the 348 individuals arrested for purchasing the offending material, 108 were Canadian, 50 residing in Ontario.

Of those 108, almost all were in positions of authority with access to children. There were 40 school teachers, 32 people who volunteered with children, 9 doctors and nurses, 9 religious leaders (including at least one Catholic priest), 6 law enforcement personnel, and 3 foster parents.
     
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Dec 3, 2013, 02:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
Oh yes. Greenspan is an acolyte of Ayn Rand.
When he was a kid. Did he espouse it as Fed Chairman?
     
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Dec 4, 2013, 12:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
When he was a kid. Did he espouse it as Fed Chairman?
Not when he was a kid. I don't think he even heard of her until he was in university.

And he wasn't merely an admirer, he was part of her inner circle. He wrote articles for her newsletters and his writings are found in her published non-fiction. He married another member of her inner circle. And, when he was sworn in as a member of Ford's administration, Ayn Rand was there to cheer him on.

Here's a photo, in the Oval Office, on the day Greenspan was sworn in:



That's Greenspan in the centre, with Rand on his left.
     
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Dec 4, 2013, 02:52 AM
 
University is still a kid to me.

Did he espouse unfettered capitalism as Fed chairman?
     
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Dec 4, 2013, 07:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
You can always depend on El Rushbo to say something downright idiotic because Pope Francis dared to offer some mild criticism about the perils of unfettered capitalism run amok.

Rush Limbaugh: Pope is preaching 'pure Marxism'; – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

OAW
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Limbaugh's argument is "unfettered capitalism" doesn't exist, and claims it does are Marxist.

He's being flip, but that's not exactly wrong. Unfettered capitalism doesn't exist. It's only trotted out by people who have an agenda against the fettered kind. Those people approach, if not reach, the Marxist end of the scale.

I can't stand Limbaugh, but I've learned never to trust someone else's analysis of one of his 4,000 word rants. Same goes for Glenn Beck.
Just for the record, doing a search of Evangelii Gaudium for unfettered or capitalism will return zero results. The term used is "unbridled consumerism"

I. A joy ever new, A joy which Is shared
2. The great danger in today’s world, pervaded as it is by consumerism, is the desolation and anguish born of a complacent yet covetous heart, the feverish pursuit of frivolous pleasures, and a blunted conscience. Whenever our interior life becomes caught up in its own interests and concerns, there is no longer room for others, no place for the poor. God’s voice is no longer heard, the quiet joy of his love is no longer felt, and the desire to do good fades. This is a very real danger for believers too. Many fall prey to it, and end up resentful, angry and listless. That is no way to live a dignified and fulfilled life; it is not God’s will for us, nor is it the life in the Spirit which has its source in the heart of the risen Christ.
60. Today’s economic mechanisms promote inordinate consumption, yet it is evident that unbridled consumerism combined with inequality proves doubly damaging to the social fabric. Inequality eventually engenders a violence which recourse to arms cannot and never will be able to resolve. It serves only to offer false hopes to those clamouring for heightened security, even though nowadays we know that weapons and violence, rather than providing solutions, create new and more serious conflicts. Some simply content themselves with blaming the poor and the poorer countries themselves for their troubles; indulging in unwarranted generalizations, they claim that the solution is an “education” that would tranquilize them, making them tame and harmless. All this becomes even more exasperating for the marginalized in the light of the widespread and deeply rooted corruption found in many countries – in their governments, businesses and institutions – whatever the political ideology of their leaders.
70. It is also true that at times greater emphasis is placed on the outward expressions and traditions of some groups, or on alleged private revelations which would replace all else, than on the impulse of Christian piety. There is a kind of Christianity made up of devotions reflecting an individual and sentimental faith life which does not in fact correspond to authentic “popular piety”. Some people promote these expressions while not being in the least concerned with the advancement of society or the formation of the laity, and in certain cases they do so in order to obtain economic benefits or some power over others. Nor can we overlook the fact that in recent decades there has been a breakdown in the way Catholics pass down the Christian faith to the young. It is undeniable that many people feel disillusioned and no longer identify with the Catholic tradition. Growing numbers of parents do not bring their children for baptism or teach them how to pray. There is also a certain exodus towards other faith communities. The causes of this breakdown include: a lack of opportunity for dialogue in families, the influence of the communications media, a relativistic subjectivism, unbridled consumerism which feeds the market, lack of pastoral care among the poor, the failure of our institutions to be welcoming, and our difficulty in restoring a mystical adherence to the faith in a pluralistic religious landscape.
89. Isolation, which is a version of immanentism, can find expression in a false autonomy which has no place for God. But in the realm of religion it can also take the form of a spiritual consumerism tailored to one’s own unhealthy individualism. The return to the sacred and the quest for spirituality which mark our own time are ambiguous phenomena. Today, our challenge is not so much atheism as the need to respond adequately to many people’s thirst for God, lest they try to satisfy it with alienating solutions or with a disembodied Jesus who demands nothing of us with regard to others. Unless these people find in the Church a spirituality which can offer healing and liberation, and fill them with life and peace, while at the same time summoning them to fraternal communion and missionary fruitfulness, they will end up by being taken in by solutions which neither make life truly human nor give glory to God.
Greed is NOT good.
( Last edited by Chongo; Dec 4, 2013 at 07:52 AM. )
     
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Dec 4, 2013, 02:50 PM
 
People often lazily confuse capitalism and consumerism. The latter requires greed to function, while the former operates best without it.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
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Dec 4, 2013, 02:54 PM
 
The comments I read seemed to indicate the Pope was talking about consumerism.
     
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Dec 4, 2013, 04:07 PM
 
Indeed. It's like people who mistakenly peg money and the pursuit of wealth as "the root of all evil", when it's clearly written that the problem is the love of it. Mammon, or greed, is the lust for any material items, not specifically money at all, and that's the foundation of present-day consumerism.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
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Dec 4, 2013, 04:22 PM
 
"Pursuit of wealth" as a term sounds problematic to me. Leaves me thinking of people who are already living comfortably concerned with getting more.
     
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Dec 4, 2013, 04:36 PM
 
That what is meant by:

23 And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
For the most part, rich people in those days had to do some immoral things to become and stay wealthy.
     
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Dec 4, 2013, 04:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
For the most part, rich people in those days had to do some immoral things to become and stay wealthy.
Is that said explicitly anywhere or is this the fun part where people start interpreting the bible?

Anyway, that holds true more than you think today.
     
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Dec 4, 2013, 04:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Is that said explicitly anywhere or is this the fun part where people start interpreting the bible?

Anyway, that holds true more than you think today.
I think it was Benny Hinn, maybe Joel Osteen.
     
 
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