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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Shut it down!

View Poll Results: Will the Govt. get shutdown?
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Yup 9 votes (64.29%)
Nope 5 votes (35.71%)
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll
Shut it down!
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Games Meister
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Sep 30, 2013, 03:36 PM
 


So, think it's gonna happen?
     
Clinically Insane
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Sep 30, 2013, 03:59 PM
 
Yes. This man has no dick.
     
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Sep 30, 2013, 04:08 PM
 
It'll be like Sequester, all hype and no impact.
     
OAW
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Sep 30, 2013, 04:19 PM
 
I actually read the poll question wrong. I meant to vote Yes.

OAW
     
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Sep 30, 2013, 04:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
I actually read the poll question wrong. I meant to vote Yes.

OAW

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Clinically Insane
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Sep 30, 2013, 07:52 PM
 
Do any of you guys think that these stunts will help Republicans win future elections?
     
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Sep 30, 2013, 08:32 PM
 
What pisses me off more than anything is that the people at fault for the shutdown - Congress - are the only people who still get paid during a shutdown. F that.

It does make me glad I'm not a contractor anymore. Contractors are completely screwed when the government shuts down. The last time it happened (mid-90s), federal employees ended up getting back pay. Contractors didn't get shit.
     
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Sep 30, 2013, 08:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Do any of you guys think that these stunts will help Republicans win future elections?
No. The Republican Party is now beholden to a small minority of so-called Tea Party congressmen/women. These people were elected by majority vote in individual congressional districts and DO NOT represent the view of the average American, or even the average Republican.

This entire thing is completely IDIOTIC. The Affordable Care Act is a f***ing LAW that was voted on and approved by Congress and signed by the President. To hold the economy hostage because you're still butt-hurt the law got passed is f***ing childish.

This is the ONE THING that everyone knows is the job of Congress - approve a budget. And they can't even do that without trying to undermine a law that was passed by Congress, signed by the President, and already determined to be Constitutional by the Supreme Court.

F***ing PATHETIC.

Is this the new normal? Anytime a budget needs to be approved Congress plays games by trying to undermine existing laws they don't like by trying to de-fund them, postpone them, etc. by attaching them to something that absolutely MUST be passed?
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Sep 30, 2013, 09:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
It'll be like Sequester, all hype and no impact.
Ask my daughter's partner, who took a 20% pay cut, due to the sequester, and the thousands of others who did as well.

And you expect to be taken seriously?
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
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Sep 30, 2013, 09:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Do any of you guys think that these stunts will help Republicans win future elections?
I hope not, and I believe it will hurt them more than they know. The Republican Party of today is nothing like when I was younger, and it has been hijacked by shrill voiced extremists, who are vastly out of touch with the change in demographics that's happening, fairly rapidly, and think they can hold the country hostage. They're like spoiled brats, except they're physically grown. Disgusting!
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
Clinically Insane
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Sep 30, 2013, 09:17 PM
 
BadKosh: do you think you would be happier if you didn't work for NASA, given your ideological positions against government?
     
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Sep 30, 2013, 09:30 PM
 
It'll be a good time to buy securities, for sure.
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Clinically Insane
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Oct 1, 2013, 04:01 AM
 
Mmm... Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering kaboom.
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Oct 1, 2013, 08:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
No. The Republican Party is now beholden to a small minority of so-called Tea Party congressmen/women. These people were elected by majority vote in individual congressional districts and DO NOT represent the view of the average American, or even the average Republican.
Incorrect. They represent not only the majority of the American electorate, but have in fact echoed the same exact concerns offered by Dems who believe implementation of the ACA will be a "train wreck". The fact of the matter is this could not have happened without united Democrats or Republicans, but the Tea Party as a voting bloc are essentially the only ones with enough integrity to actually challenge their base. I realize this is a foreign concept to the (D) loyalists who've given the Obama Administration and cronies a virtual pass on all those broken promises, but if you really want "change" and it's more than just hollow rhetoric; you're going to have to challenge your base. While it's painful and it might be fun for the opposition, you'll get change no other way.

Make no mistake, there is gridlock and it has as much to do with the shenanigans of Harry END-OF-DEBATE Reid as it does anyone else.

This entire thing is completely IDIOTIC. The Affordable Care Act is a f***ing LAW that was voted on and approved by Congress and signed by the President. To hold the economy hostage because you're still butt-hurt the law got passed is f***ing childish.
Incorrect. This iteration of the Affordable Care Act is not the f***ing LAW that was voted on and approved by Congress, found Constitutional by the Supreme Court, and signed by the President.
  1. Congress, the White House, and related staff were all supposed to be included in the f***ing LAW voted on and approved by Congress and signed by the President. Obama unilaterally decided they would not.
  2. There was no one year delay of the Employer mandate in the f***ing LAW voted on and approved by Congress and signed by the President. Obama unilaterally determined that this was too politically untenable to occur in 2014, pushed now to 2015 while leaving the mandate for you and me.
  3. The 1099 tax reporting requirement removal was not written into the f***ing LAW voted on and approved by Congress, and signed by the President.
  4. Self-reporting eligibility for ACA was not written into the f***ing LAW voted on and approved by Congress and signed by the President.
  5. A waiver of consumer protections for lifetime out-of-pocket expenses to a handful of insurers was not written into the f***ing LAW voted on and approved by Congress, and signed by the President. There were no MLR waivers for mini-med plans in the f***ing LAW voted on and approved by Congress and signed by the President. There were no Union waivers in the f***ing LAW voted on and approved by Congress and signed by the President. There were no waivers or preferential treatment for States in the f***ing LAW voted on and approved by Congress and signed by the President.

I know this might be difficult for those more sympathetic to the Obama Administration here to understand, but no -- you don't get to arbitrarily exempt your pets from the f***ing LAW or decide which aspects of f***ing LAW you'll enforce on whomever, whenever. That's not a f***ing LAW, that's a f***ing joke.

This is the ONE THING that everyone knows is the job of Congress - approve a budget.
Really? Since when has this been a concern of yours? The Democrat-controlled Senate hadn't passed a f***Ing BUDGET in the first four years of this Administration's term because it was too politically untenable and yet -- we didn't hear from you.

And they can't even do that without trying to undermine a law that was passed by Congress, signed by the President, and already determined to be Constitutional by the Supreme Court.
What is being implemented is decidedly not the LAW passed by Congress (not even among the Democrats who helped draft the f***ing LAW), signed by the President, and determined Constitutional by the Supreme Court.

F***ing PATHETIC.
No. More like F***ing SHADY.

Is this the new normal? Anytime a budget needs to be approved Congress plays games by trying to undermine existing laws they don't like by trying to de-fund them, postpone them, etc. by attaching them to something that absolutely MUST be passed?
It's not an existing LAW, it's an ever-changing JOKE that gets modified and provisions delayed as the political winds of the 2014 election blow. Keep your eyes peeled to the HHS website where you'll find other changes and modifications of the f***ing LAW after it had been passed by Congress and signed by the President. Be sure to cache what you see on the page today though as it is all subject to change without announcement tomorrow.

How about Newton's f***ing LAW III; To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction. The more contentious the initial action, the more contentious the opposite reaction. Is this the new normal? Yes. As long as Reid and Obama are in office, this is in fact the new normal.
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Games Meister
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Oct 1, 2013, 10:07 AM
 
     
Clinically Insane
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Oct 1, 2013, 12:32 PM
 
I made the mistake of Googling an issue I'm having with the ACA site to see if others have been having the same problem, and of course came across people saying stupid trash like "the site is broken, how typical of our government" and all the usual "Obamacare sucks" blah blah blah stuff.

I went to the site mostly because I'm intrigued how they would handle such an incredibly high volume of people interested in checking it out. The fact that the site renders some pages is nothing short of pure magic given the strain those servers must be under right now.
     
Clinically Insane
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Oct 1, 2013, 02:52 PM
 
I wonder how many groups are trying to DDoS attack the new site?
     
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Oct 1, 2013, 04:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
Is this the new normal? Anytime a budget needs to be approved Congress plays games by trying to undermine existing laws they don't like by trying to de-fund them, postpone them, etc. by attaching them to something that absolutely MUST be passed?
Not new: Tip O'Neal had 12 government shutdowns. Clinton had one. This will be the first of Obama's I guess.
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Games Meister
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Oct 1, 2013, 04:53 PM
 
To you ****ers that voted "yes" today... well I guess that's on me for not closing the poll early. Congrats on your voter fraud, asses.
     
Clinically Insane
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Oct 1, 2013, 05:18 PM
 
I blame Obama.
     
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Oct 1, 2013, 05:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
To you ****ers that voted "yes" today... well I guess that's on me for not closing the poll early. Congrats on your voter fraud, asses.
It's the American way!
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Oct 1, 2013, 06:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
To you ****ers that voted "yes" today... well I guess that's on me for not closing the poll early. Congrats on your voter fraud, asses.
You ruined one of my polls like that once. Karma being a bitch, and all that.


BTW, I did vote "No", I thought the Repugs would cave near the end, but they impressed me by showing some backbone.
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Oct 1, 2013, 07:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
You ruined one of my polls like that once. Karma being a bitch, and all that.


BTW, I did vote "No", I thought the Repugs would cave near the end, but they impressed me by showing some backbone.

Are you sure "impressed" is the word you intended to use?
     
Clinically Insane
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Oct 1, 2013, 07:26 PM
 
They said they would do it, they backed it up. With current conditions, as a nation we can't afford the ACA. Cut some military spending, tighten some of the access to social programs, find the money instead of borrowing more. If proponents want it badly enough, they can make room.
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Oct 1, 2013, 07:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
They said they would do it, they backed it up. With current conditions, as a nation we can't afford the ACA. Cut some military spending, tighten some of the access to social programs, find the money instead of borrowing more. If proponents want it badly enough, they can make room.
We can't afford to not have health care reform of some form any longer, do you agree?

Besides, we're on the right track with deficit reduction:

U.S. posts $117 billion June budget surplus - Economic Report - MarketWatch
     
Clinically Insane
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Oct 1, 2013, 07:56 PM
 
Besides, it doesn't really matter whether the Republicans like or dislike the law at this point. At this point it is the law, and they've had ample time to improve upon it. I've been saying for months that there should have been more focus on something constructive other than just repealing a standing constitutional law.
     
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Oct 1, 2013, 08:09 PM
 
Ha! Republicans are more insane than I thought.

However, sources in the House Republican leadership told CNN on Tuesday they plan a series of votes to fund specific government departments and programs, starting with spending for veterans, the District of Columbia and the Park Service.

Some conservatives led by GOP Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas have called for such a strategy, which would force opponents to vote against authorizing spending for popular programs like veterans affairs.

Under the scenario described by Cruz, the piecemeal spending plan would be a way to defund Obamacare on a step-by-step basis.
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Oct 1, 2013, 09:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
To you ****ers that voted "yes" today... well I guess that's on me for not closing the poll early. Congrats on your voter fraud, asses.
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
It's the American way!
Manipulating polling times, closing polls... what's next? Requiring some form of MacNN ID or 'I voted today' voucher?

I would've been wrong had I voted. I thought there was the real possibility that moderate Republicans would decide that a stark position here would prove a net-loss in political capital and back down. At one point I even thought it possible that a number of shrewd Democrats would jump at the opportunity to relieve the individual mandate on you and me. That would've been an easy escape hatch for anyone interested in compromise. After all, until our system is entirely mob-rules, they're going to have to at least try. Particularly in tandem with the business break and the wealth of perks for the monoliths.

I'm surprised by all of them.
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Oct 1, 2013, 11:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Besides, it doesn't really matter whether the Republicans like or dislike the law at this point. At this point it is the law, and they've had ample time to improve upon it. I've been saying for months that there should have been more focus on something constructive other than just repealing a standing constitutional law.
Except the law as it stands now isn't what was voted on, that is, and the process for passing it in the first place was shady, to say the least.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Oct 1, 2013, 11:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
We can't afford to not have health care reform of some form any longer, do you agree?

Besides, we're on the right track with deficit reduction:

U.S. posts $117 billion June budget surplus - Economic Report - MarketWatch
Adjusting for shifts in timing of some payments ...
If you delay paying your mortgage it will always look like you have more money in the bank.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Oct 2, 2013, 01:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Except the law as it stands now isn't what was voted on, that is, and the process for passing it in the first place was shady, to say the least.
So, Republicans are being obstinate now because they were obstinate back in 2009 and via some political magic a bill was enacted despite their best efforts to see it fail? And, since 2009, instead of working to put forth improvements to the bill they just worked on destroying it, lost the 2012 election and still kept doing the same thing hoping for different results?

The bottom line to me is this:

When voters receiving subsidies see that they can afford their health insurance (and in a number of states low income families will have to pay less than $50/month, which is less than what most would pay for internet access), they will vote Democrat in future elections. Some will resent being forced to have to obtain health insurance, but I think the majority will be happy to have it. Once they have their health insurance they will see efforts to have this health care taken away from them as an attack on them, just like many people today are hyper-protective of Medicare/Medicaid.

This general acceptance will lead to the ability for the government to negotiate lower prices, and in addition to the mandate will eventually result in reduced health care costs across the board. Republicans realize this too and therefore a number of them have been blowing up incoherent smokescreens and pumping up the fear rhetoric. This will be a very bumpy ride, but eventually it will improve health care costs in this country, particularly for low income people. Republicans would just prefer to do this in different ways.

The irony is that this shutdown will be seen by many as an attack on them anyway, so those impacted by the billions of dollars potentially lost by this shutdown will have even less reason to vote Republican in future elections. The end game of these Republicans has nothing to do with what is best for the general public or even their re-election, because if their intentions were noble they could have carried them out, or at least provide the appearance of doing their best much earlier on.

Given the damage these Republicans are willing to cause, I'm sorry, but I'm forced to think that their real motivations are their special interest groups and personal gains. Of course there is shady stuff going on across the board, this is politics after all, but these Republicans are so full of spell their eyes are brown.
     
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Oct 2, 2013, 01:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
If you delay paying your mortgage it will always look like you have more money in the bank.
There are a number of indicators that the economy, outside of employment rates, is doing fine:

Second quarter GDP revised up to 2.5% - Aug. 29, 2013

Granted, an economy with no jobs is not fine overall, but hopefully the unemployment rates will drop to match the other improvements within the economy.

Regarding the ACA and jobs, the one argument that many Republican have made successfully is that employers will drop benefits in favor of the ACA or reduce hours. The reduction of hours is pretty sucky, we're seeing that around here, but maybe in the long run untethering insurance from employment will be a good thing.

The counter argument that we haven't heard though is how the ACA might help startups and other small business men and woman hoping to attract workers who would otherwise be turned off by the risk of not having a robust benefits package, and hoping to compete with employers that do offer health insurance. I honestly don't know how these numbers work out, but to me this is clearly a thing.
     
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Oct 2, 2013, 03:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
So, Republicans are being obstinate now because they were obstinate back in 2009 and via some political magic a bill was enacted despite their best efforts to see it fail? And, since 2009, instead of working to put forth improvements to the bill they just worked on destroying it, lost the 2012 election and still kept doing the same thing hoping for different results?
I'm saying, if you work to pass a bill by any means necessary and do hinky shit with it after it's passed, don't expect that your opponents aren't going to do the same to stuff up your day later on (like when it comes to funding it), especially if they truly feel that the law in question is going to do harm to the country.

I remember a lot of talk about "we don't care how the ACA was passed, it was so now deal with it". Well, those chickens have come home to roost. While that could come back to bite the Republicans in the ass, the next election is still over a year away.
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Oct 2, 2013, 03:11 AM
 
I'm seeing that rates for healthy young Americans (18-30) seem to be skyrocketing 40-70%, to help pay for people who were medically uninsurable before. That's quite regressive, since young people tend to make substantially less money than their older co-workers. So, they're required to pay it, via the mandate, even though the expense is disproportionate. I think that's going to piss a lot of them off when they look at their check stubs.
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Oct 2, 2013, 03:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I'm saying, if you work to pass a bill by any means necessary and do hinky snort with it after it's passed, don't expect that your opponents aren't going to do the same to stuff up your day later on (like when it comes to funding it), especially if they truly feel that the law in question is going to do harm to the country.

I remember a lot of talk about "we don't care how the ACA was passed, it was so now deal with it". Well, those chickens have come home to roost. While that could come back to bite the Republicans in the ass, the next election is still over a year away.
Your revenge theory does make sense, but I don't think it's a good strategy for anybody. When Joe Sixpack Republican is out of work now because of the shutdown, he is going to care far more about this than how this settles a political score, and will be statistically more inclined to blame the Republicans.
     
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Oct 2, 2013, 03:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I'm seeing that rates for healthy young Americans (18-30) seem to be skyrocketing 40-70%, to help pay for people who were medically uninsurable before. That's quite regressive, since young people tend to make substantially less money than their older co-workers. So, they're required to pay it, via the mandate, even though the expense is disproportionate. I think that's going to piss a lot of them off when they look at their check stubs.
Are you saying that their low rates they'll buy into won't stay low for long?
     
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Oct 2, 2013, 05:09 AM
 
Revenge? I'm not so sure that's it entirely, they see the way it was passed and handled as an injustice. If the government stays shut down for a while, everyone in DC is going to catch hell, pointing fingers at the Repubs will only work for so long. "You can stop this shit by delaying some parts of the ACA for a year? Well WTF? Just do that and get this over with! What do you mean NO?"
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Oct 2, 2013, 08:37 AM
 
Several points have been raised here so I'll just touch on them.

June budget surplus? I like it. Problem is, the repayment of our loans to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac came due in June. That's some $70 billion of the monthly budget you won't see ongoing. What do I mean? Don't cherry-pick a single month and say -- see? The economy is doing fine. It's not doing fine. This is the most anemic post-recession recovery in US history.

U.S. posts $98 billion budget deficit in July In July total spending rose to $298 billion from $254 billion in the same month of 2012. The lesson: one month of growth does not an economic recovery make.

While there is still a substantial decrease in the deficits and a welcome move of course, our projected FY deficit is projected to be over $700 billion and while better than the $1 trillion+ from years prior, still constitutes the 5th highest deficit in US history. The economy is not doing fine. Any such statement is simply absurd and woefully optimistic to the point of shameless naiveté.

GDP growth? mmm... sort of. From September 26th: US economic growth slows as GDP estimate disappoints economists
The US economy grew at a sluggish 2.5% on an annual rate between April and June according to the latest official measure of the country's economic health.

The third and final estimate of gross domestic product (GDP) from the Department of Commerce was unchanged from its last. But it was below economists' forecasts, which had been predicting a slight pickup in the pace of growth.

In the January-March quarter, GDP rose by 1.1% and while the latest figure represents a marked improvement it is still weak by historic standards. Economic expansion following the 2008 recession has been the weakest of the post-second world war era.


Now, regarding the "low" rates folks will be paying for their health insurance. They will do the math just as anyone else is forced to when their monthly bills arrive. $300/month for something they never used last month, or the month before? Yes, that will result in bailing the exchange and paying the much smaller annual penalty at which point they'll be frustrated they have to pay anything. The real hit is going to come to the middle class who is expected to see on average 35% increase in Premiums with less coverage than they had prior. Larger providers have already bailed the exchanges to wait on progress reports claiming; "we will wait to ensure a positive customer experience". The ACA will be a wreck and those opposed to it are making a political calculation on the forgetfulness of the US electorate. When it goes belly-up for all, but the few million entirely subsidized by the Federal government, it's going to create Republican voters in 2014. Health insurance reform aka "Obamacare" was not designed to lower the cost of health care, provide greater access of health care to the insured, or improve the quality of care. It is only designed to get health insurance into the hands of those who at present have none. It will be a net-loss to anyone who chose support of the ACA as the battleground they'd die on.
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Oct 2, 2013, 11:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
You ruined one of my polls like that once. Karma being a bitch, and all that.
I salute your long memory. What poll was it anyway? I don't recall poll shitting unless we're talking reg lounge.


Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
I would've been wrong had I voted. I thought there was the real possibility that moderate Republicans would decide that a stark position here would prove a net-loss in political capital and back down. At one point I even thought it possible that a number of shrewd Democrats would jump at the opportunity to relieve the individual mandate on you and me. That would've been an easy escape hatch for anyone interested in compromise. After all, until our system is entirely mob-rules, they're going to have to at least try. Particularly in tandem with the business break and the wealth of perks for the monoliths.

I'm surprised by all of them.
Well, to be fair, on paper the votes to pass a clean CR exist in the house, but it won't go to a vote. In reality, some of those votes might dry up in the face of some TP pressure/primary threatening.


Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I'm seeing that rates for healthy young Americans (18-30) seem to be skyrocketing 40-70%, to help pay for people who were medically uninsurable before. That's quite regressive, since young people tend to make substantially less money than their older co-workers. So, they're required to pay it, via the mandate, even though the expense is disproportionate. I think that's going to piss a lot of them off when they look at their check stubs.
I can see what you mean by it being financially regressive, but logically the system works best if everyone pays in. Arguably they've been getting a free ride all these years by not paying in when they were young and then using a lot of resources once they got old.


Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Revenge? I'm not so sure that's it entirely, they see the way it was passed and handled as an injustice. If the government stays shut down for a while, everyone in DC is going to catch hell, pointing fingers at the Repubs will only work for so long. "You can stop this shit by delaying some parts of the ACA for a year? Well WTF? Just do that and get this over with! What do you mean NO?"
I wouldn't support a govt. shutdown over this either way, but I'd certainly agree with an ideological stance of making everything go through as scheduled. Putting the ACA off by a year is more political strategy than real concern for America.
     
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Oct 2, 2013, 12:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Revenge? I'm not so sure that's it entirely, they see the way it was passed and handled as an injustice.
You may very well be right. But to be honest I don't think the average American cares. I certainly don't know all the ins and outs of what went down both before the law was passed and what has occured since. And you know what? I don't really care to know because it is completely independent of Congress' duty to pass a budget.

Republicans are being seen as childish and stubborn for trying, repeatedly and in vain, to tie passing the budget to repeal/delay of all or part of the ACA.

If the government stays shut down for a while, everyone in DC is going to catch hell, pointing fingers at the Repubs will only work for so long. "You can stop this shit by delaying some parts of the ACA for a year? Well WTF? Just do that and get this over with! What do you mean NO?"
Or, they will say "You can stop this shit by simply passing a budget without trying to repeal the ACA? Well WTF? Just do that!!"
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Oct 2, 2013, 12:56 PM
 
I did find this interesting.

Here's A Tally Of Which House Republicans Are Ready To Fund The Government, No Strings Attached

No, not for the reason you think. Look at where the representatives are from.

PA - 4
VA - 4
NJ - 2
NY - 2
MN - 1
CA - 1

The East Coast and in particular, tri-state area are heavily represented. I'd be curious to why. My first instinct is this might be because a government shutdown affects them most, but I'd be curious how. If not, what else might be the reasoning? Purple states? Republican moderates?
     
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Oct 2, 2013, 01:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Now, regarding the "low" rates folks will be paying for their health insurance. They will do the math just as anyone else is forced to when their monthly bills arrive. $300/month for something they never used last month, or the month before? Yes, that will result in bailing the exchange and paying the much smaller annual penalty at which point they'll be frustrated they have to pay anything.

Nobody is going to have to pay $300/month who can't afford this. Have you looked at the subsidies?
     
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Oct 2, 2013, 02:16 PM
 
     
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Oct 2, 2013, 04:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Nobody is going to have to pay $300/month who can't afford this. Have you looked at the subsidies?
"Afford" doesn't have anything to do with it, "that money could go towards a new PS4 and rims. I'm never sick and can't remember the last time I went to the hospital. Screw that, it's just stupid." - The thinking of the average 24 y/o male, replace with clothes and shoes, if it's a female.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I salute your long memory. What poll was it anyway? I don't recall poll shitting unless we're talking reg lounge.
Shiiit, that was back in... 2006? I've slept since then, but I'm pretty sure it was a Super Bowl poll.

Well, to be fair, on paper the votes to pass a clean CR exist in the house, but it won't go to a vote. In reality, some of those votes might dry up in the face of some TP pressure/primary threatening.

I can see what you mean by it being financially regressive, but logically the system works best if everyone pays in. Arguably they've been getting a free ride all these years by not paying in when they were young and then using a lot of resources once they got old.
Few see it that way because people don't believe they'll actually get old, until they arrive.

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
You may very well be right. But to be honest I don't think the average American cares. I certainly don't know all the ins and outs of what went down both before the law was passed and what has occured since. And you know what? I don't really care to know because it is completely independent of Congress' duty to pass a budget.

Republicans are being seen as childish and stubborn for trying, repeatedly and in vain, to tie passing the budget to repeal/delay of all or part of the ACA.
Whether they care or not, obviously congress does. The only fix to this, unless Dems want to throw the next fiscal year away, is to rework the few contentious parts of the ACA.

Or, they will say "You can stop this shit by simply passing a budget without trying to repeal the ACA? Well WTF? Just do that!!"
I'm pretty sure everyone is being blamed for what's happened over the last couple months, despite the media's best efforts, as the polls indicate.

Presidential Approval Ratings -- Barack Obama | Gallup Historical Data & Trends
Congress and the Public | Gallup Historical Trends

Congressional approval has pretty much always sucked, though, so it's hard to tell any trend there, but Obama has slipped hard in the last several months.
( Last edited by Shaddim; Oct 2, 2013 at 05:50 PM. )
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Oct 2, 2013, 04:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Shiiit, that was back in... 2006? I've slept since then, but I'm pretty sure it was a Super Bowl poll.
I tried to google it, but no luck.


Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Congressional approval has pretty much always sucked, though, so it's hard to tell any trend there, but Obama has slipped hard in the last several months.
Obama is eating shit for the NSA stuff, rightfully so. Has little to do with the typical congressional gridlock.
     
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Oct 2, 2013, 04:57 PM
 
This thread? I don't see anything there (plus no poll).

Also, in your post in this thread, you have a formatting error or forgot to respond to something you left in.
     
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Oct 2, 2013, 05:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
This thread? I don't see anything there (plus no poll).
Like I said, it's been a very long time, I'm likely remembering it wrong. Sorry if that caused you distress.

Also, in your post in this thread, you have a formatting error or forgot to respond to something you left in.
Where?
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Oct 2, 2013, 05:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Like I said, it's been a very long time, I'm likely remembering it wrong. Sorry if that caused you distress.
Ha, no distress, but def curiosity as sure I'm douchey but that context didn't seem likely.



Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Where?
Third quote down is me, and the response is more of me.
     
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Oct 2, 2013, 05:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
"Afford" doesn't have anything to do with it, "that money could go towards a new PS4 and rims. I'm never sick and can't remember the last time I went to the hospital. Screw that, it's just stupid." - The thinking of the average 24 y/o male, replace with clothes and shoes, if it's a female.
I'm not sure how this relates. If this average 24 year old is making what an average 24 year old makes in a month, with the subsidies his insurance will quite likely cost him less than $50/month, which as I pointed is less than what he pays for his cellphone and internet service.

You're quite right that the average 24 year old may not *want* to buy health insurance, but he may not want to buy auto insurance either, or his license/registration, or pay his taxes, or whatever else. I empathize with these frustrations, but unfortunately all of these mandates are just something that makes all of this stuff work in any sort of society.
     
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Oct 2, 2013, 05:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post

Third quote down is me, and the response is more of me.
Okay, fixed.
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