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Duck Dynasty
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Clinically Insane
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Dec 21, 2013, 06:32 PM
 
Rule 8: who gives a shit?
     
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Dec 21, 2013, 07:43 PM
 
It's too much like the locals around here, so I don't see any novelty in it. Rednecks are against homosexuality? Shocked, I'm shocked, I tell you.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Dec 21, 2013, 08:16 PM
 
Likewise with people screaming at moderators on Internet forums about their 1st Amendment rights. I shouldn't be surprised people carry that over to TV.
     
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Dec 21, 2013, 09:34 PM
 
A&E = pffft
     
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Dec 21, 2013, 10:13 PM
 
In what sense?
     
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Dec 21, 2013, 10:55 PM
 
A&E looks really stupid in all this. The Robertson's position on this topic is well know.
None of the GQ content was new revelation. So WTF ?

There's only one halfway logical explanation: the LGBT community suddenly got active. As always. They just get their panties in a bunch too easily.

-t
     
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Dec 22, 2013, 12:41 AM
 
A&E isn't getting a ****ton of publicity out of this?
     
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Dec 22, 2013, 12:47 AM
 
It's all a giant ploy. The Duck Dynasty guys are well-educated actors playing a part, and lapping up a ton of attention in the process.

The only noteworthy aspect to all of this is people not really understanding what their first amendment rights entail.
     
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Dec 22, 2013, 02:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
It's all a giant ploy. The Duck Dynasty guys are well-educated actors playing a part, and lapping up a ton of attention in the process.

The only noteworthy aspect to all of this is people not really understanding what their first amendment rights entail.
Nice try. Still fail.

-t
     
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Dec 22, 2013, 10:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
It's all a giant ploy. The Duck Dynasty guys are well-educated actors playing a part, and lapping up a ton of attention in the process.

The only noteworthy aspect to all of this is people not really understanding what their first amendment rights entail.
I think the above is partially correct. While I couldn't bring myself to appreciate more than 15 minutes of a single episode once, it's my understanding that they've already recorded this entire year's worth of episodes. To let Robertson go at this point seems a little nonsensical, particularly if they bring him back in time to record next year's episodes in the Spring. In that sense, it wreaks to me of a ploy of sorts also. Of course, it could be much simpler and it's just another example of a "gotcha" interview with a self-professed, Bible-believing Christian for the headline; "NEWSFLASH -- THIS JUST IN: SELF-PROFESSED BIBLE-BELIEVING CHRISTIAN BELIEVES HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN!"

What never ceases to amaze me is how Christians like Robertson and others repeatedly get caught up in the populist trap. While homosexuals comprise 1-3% of the populace, they've managed to consume seemingly half of our national discourse. Naturally, when Robertson and others are asked what they consider sin, it would seem important to them to begin with homosexuality -- the populist trap. Never mind the fact that the Bible reiterates time and again that no man is without sin; gossiping, coveting, disrespect, stealing, killing, adultery, and throw in Jesus' own contribution on the thoughts of one's mind... it becomes clear that all of mankind is guilty of some transgression that puts at risk their eternal separation from God. Why is this not the narrative, that we all need salvation and none are capable of accomplishing salvation on their own. So, when someone asks you what = sin? Humanity = Sin and the wage of one sin is death. While there are 1-3% who may be guilty of this sin, 80% of us are stealing from our employer, nearly half of us are masturbating to lustful thoughts of someone else. Gossip, covetousness, anger, greed, hatred, laziness... it is clear, no man is without sin.
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Dec 22, 2013, 11:43 AM
 
When The Advocate made the Pope Francis their person of the year because of his "who Am I do judge" neglected to read the Catechism. He went on to say "I am not saying anything different than what is in the Catechism'

Here is that section:
Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 3 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 2 ARTICLE 6- Chastity and homosexuality
It differentiates between attraction and the act.

A must read.
Homosexuality and the "Duck Dynasty" Debate | Catholic Answers
     
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Dec 22, 2013, 04:59 PM
 
That second article is excellent. Well done, Chongo.
     
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Dec 22, 2013, 05:02 PM
 
@ebuddy,

You're mistaking a national discourse taken over by a stupid TV show as discourse taken over by homosexuals.
     
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Dec 22, 2013, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
I think the above is partially correct. While I couldn't bring myself to appreciate more than 15 minutes of a single episode once, it's my understanding that they've already recorded this entire year's worth of episodes. To let Robertson go at this point seems a little nonsensical, particularly if they bring him back in time to record next year's episodes in the Spring. In that sense, it wreaks to me of a ploy of sorts also. Of course, it could be much simpler and it's just another example of a "gotcha" interview with a self-professed, Bible-believing Christian for the headline; "NEWSFLASH -- THIS JUST IN: SELF-PROFESSED BIBLE-BELIEVING CHRISTIAN BELIEVES HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN!"

What never ceases to amaze me is how Christians like Robertson and others repeatedly get caught up in the populist trap. While homosexuals comprise 1-3% of the populace, they've managed to consume seemingly half of our national discourse. Naturally, when Robertson and others are asked what they consider sin, it would seem important to them to begin with homosexuality -- the populist trap. Never mind the fact that the Bible reiterates time and again that no man is without sin; gossiping, coveting, disrespect, stealing, killing, adultery, and throw in Jesus' own contribution on the thoughts of one's mind... it becomes clear that all of mankind is guilty of some transgression that puts at risk their eternal separation from God. Why is this not the narrative, that we all need salvation and none are capable of accomplishing salvation on their own. So, when someone asks you what = sin? Humanity = Sin and the wage of one sin is death. While there are 1-3% who may be guilty of this sin, 80% of us are stealing from our employer, nearly half of us are masturbating to lustful thoughts of someone else. Gossip, covetousness, anger, greed, hatred, laziness... it is clear, no man is without sin.

I don't understand how some Christians can talk about a personal relationship with God, and emphasize the personalization of this relationship, yet seem insistent on weighing in on what they declare to be sins in the lives of other people. And, of course, I'm sure these same people would not react well to people turning the tables and exposing the sin in their lives, as you've pointed out surely exists.

These certain Christians don't need to declare to the world their opinion of what they feel is sin, because other people's sins are not their concern - especially sins that do not affect them personally one little bit.

The irony to me in all of this is that usually when they do so, this is so easily (rightly or wrongly) conflated with hatred, sometimes even bringing about violence - both of which I'm sure God and Jesus would say are far more sinful than loving somebody of the same gender.

The most effective Christians I've known are the quiet types who are living examples of their faith, and who never get up in the grills of other people and their lives.
     
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Dec 22, 2013, 05:12 PM
 
If anything Phil is showing a certain level of sympathy by saying "sin isn't logical".

Of course he means "reasoned", but I'm not surprised he gets that wrong.

/pedant
     
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Dec 22, 2013, 05:15 PM
 
When I got my earring, one side of my family was "you look like a fag", the other side gave me a pile of single earrings the ladies had collected.

Both sides are comprised of hard-core Catholics.
     
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Dec 22, 2013, 08:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
@ebuddy,

You're mistaking a national discourse taken over by a stupid TV show as discourse taken over by homosexuals.
The National discourse I was talking about transcends Duck Dynasty and permeates almost all other aspects of media to the extent that you'd think sexual orientation is the central most pressing issue of mankind in the 21st century. I'm not aware of who necessarily is behind its prominence in media culture, but offered my critique of a Christian community unable to rise above the populist noise.
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Dec 22, 2013, 08:46 PM
 
I've always thought the whole show was a put on. The real issue we should be discussing is why anyone bothered to listen to any of the people involved in the show to begin with...

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Dec 22, 2013, 08:53 PM
 
@ebuddy

We must be dissing in different courses.
     
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Dec 22, 2013, 10:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
The National discourse I was talking about transcends Duck Dynasty and permeates almost all other aspects of media to the extent that you'd think sexual orientation is the central most pressing issue of mankind in the 21st century. I'm not aware of who necessarily is behind its prominence in media culture, but offered my critique of a Christian community unable to rise above the populist noise.

It is big in its own way.

We have the most power to shape public policy when it comes to social issues, and I would say this is the most unsettled social issue of our day. The economy? Joe Sixpack can't do anything about that, he doesn't even understand it, nor does he probably care a whole lot about it so long as he has his job and his life structure. The environment? Few know what to believe and how it impacts them personally. Our foreign policy/war? I would say most people are numb and feel helpless, and the same is probably true of torture.
     
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Dec 22, 2013, 10:12 PM
 
Also, to gay people it's a very big issue that is deeply personal to them. I can dig that.
     
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Dec 22, 2013, 10:15 PM
 
Waitaminnit...

Until a couple years ago, it was government policy to fire you for being gay.

That's not a tiny little issue we're talking about.
     
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Dec 22, 2013, 10:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Waitaminnit...

Until a couple years ago, it was government policy to fire you for being gay.

That's not a tiny little issue we're talking about.

It's also a big issue in the school yard, a big cause of suicide, etc.

Gay Bullying Statistics - Bullying Statistics

Won't somebody think of the children?
     
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Dec 22, 2013, 10:27 PM
 
Whoops. Wrong thread.
     
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Dec 22, 2013, 11:11 PM
 
Until this blew up, I'd say that 95% of gay people didn't even know who this guy is (and that's being very generous). Why do they care what this fundamentalist hick thinks, anyway? One of our best friends came over and was going off over this, he's gay, and he was being all dramatic and almost screaming for the guy's head, when only a week ago he didn't even know there was a show on TV called Duck Dynasty. Personally, I'd heard about it but hadn't watched a single episode (and won't be doing so in the future because it looks absurd).

By giving him attention, aren't folks who are bitching about this guy only giving him a larger platform from which to voice his displeasure? Aren't they making a mountain(man) out of a molehill(billy)?
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Dec 23, 2013, 12:12 AM
 
This clown isn't going to change anyone's mind, but he does have the right to make himself look stupid to some, and keep feeding his schtick to the stupid. The good news is the war on gay marriage is being lost by bozos like this, and he'll no doubt go to his grave wondering why everyone doesn't think like him, wasting voluminous amounts of negative energy in the process. No contentious issue has had as much change in tolerance, if not complete acceptance, as gay rights, in such a relatively short time. Let him show the world how ignorant he is.
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 12:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Until this blew up, I'd say that 95% of gay people didn't even know who this guy is (and that's being very generous). Why do they care what this fundamentalist hick thinks, anyway? One of our best friends came over and was going off over this, he's gay, and he was being all dramatic and almost screaming for the guy's head, when only a week ago he didn't even know there was a show on TV called Duck Dynasty. Personally, I'd heard about it but hadn't watched a single episode (and won't be doing so in the future because it looks absurd).

By giving him attention, aren't folks who are bitching about this guy only giving him a larger platform from which to voice his displeasure? Aren't they making a mountain(man) out of a molehill(billy)?

Yes, and in doing so padding his bank account, and A&E's bank account.
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 08:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Waitaminnit...

Until a couple years ago, it was government policy to fire you for being gay.

That's not a tiny little issue we're talking about.
Are you talking about the military? The concerns were that of a more logistical nature than seeking to disenfranchise a demographic of people based on fundamentalist religious sentiment or simple bigotry. i.e. I don't recall there being a problem with gays working in the Social Security offices or IRS, etc, but housing them becomes something more of a consideration akin to male and female restrooms. While no one here suggested the homosexual plight was a tiny little issue, I don't see how its prevalence in our national discourse is proportionally reasonable.
ebuddy
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 08:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
It's also a big issue in the school yard, a big cause of suicide, etc.

Gay Bullying Statistics - Bullying Statistics

Won't somebody think of the children?
Why would a homosexual have much greater odds of committing suicide due to bullying than the person with severe acne, the obese person, the minority, and the wealth of any other factors by which kids mistreat other kids? Because they show a higher suicide rate overall. Any cursory glance at statistics showing far greater rates of gay suicide in the most tolerant countries on the globe would establish that bullying or acceptance may not be the primary factor of suicide and that perhaps other factors are at play here. Truly compassionate action for these children would have to include careful examination into why they are more prone to depression and suicide regardless of societal acceptance.

I also don't think it's easy to conclude that it is heterosexuals that are most cruel to homosexuals in which case we'd have to teach homosexual children that it's not okay to lash out at other homosexual children to cover their own closeted sexuality.
ebuddy
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 11:04 AM
 
Probably repeating what others have been said, but honestly I think A&E looks the worst in all of this. They produce a reality show on these people's personalities, downplay their idealogical stances through editing, and when one of them gives an honest interview they suspend him from the show (how does that even work – its a reality show) even though they had to know his positions beforehand. So the question is, what are they embarrassed by, exactly? His position on many hot-button issues or the fact that they were making money off a guy who views many people would find despicable? What hypocrites.

Nice to see the family solidifying behind him, That said, they may not be as genuine as they seem, either.
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 01:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Are you talking about the military? The concerns were that of a more logistical nature than seeking to disenfranchise a demographic of people based on fundamentalist religious sentiment or simple bigotry. i.e. I don't recall there being a problem with gays working in the Social Security offices or IRS, etc, but housing them becomes something more of a consideration akin to male and female restrooms. While no one here suggested the homosexual plight was a tiny little issue, I don't see how its prevalence in our national discourse is proportionally reasonable.
Logistical concerns? The Israelis figured it out in the 80's. Go fish.

Edit: not to mention all the homosexuals we were already housing.
( Last edited by subego; Dec 23, 2013 at 02:30 PM. )
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 01:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Why would a homosexual have much greater odds of committing suicide due to bullying than the person with severe acne, the obese person, the minority, and the wealth of any other factors by which kids mistreat other kids? Because they show a higher suicide rate overall. Any cursory glance at statistics showing far greater rates of gay suicide in the most tolerant countries on the globe would establish that bullying or acceptance may not be the primary factor of suicide and that perhaps other factors are at play here. Truly compassionate action for these children would have to include careful examination into why they are more prone to depression and suicide regardless of societal acceptance.

I also don't think it's easy to conclude that it is heterosexuals that are most cruel to homosexuals in which case we'd have to teach homosexual children that it's not okay to lash out at other homosexual children to cover their own closeted sexuality.
I'll let you in on a little secret. Those "toleralant" countries aren't as tolerant as they'd like you to think.

We aren't the guys who plunge us into world wars every 50 years, it's those tolerant ones.
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 01:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Probably repeating what others have been said, but honestly I think A&E looks the worst in all of this.
Yeah. They're lookin' bad all the way to the bank.

This couldn't have turned out this well for A&E if they paid Phil to say that.
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 01:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Yeah. They're lookin' bad all the way to the bank.

This couldn't have turned out this well for A&E if they paid Phil to say that.
It's an IMO. And how they look and how they're profiting are two different things.

Of course, why should I expect better from a network called Arts & Entertainment that airs a show called Dog the Bounty Hunter. Very arty!

Edit: You make this sound like a good thing, but isn't the spectre hanging over A&E that prominent LGBT groups will call for boycotts of sponsors of the show, causing them to distance themselves, at which point A&E loses money?
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 02:02 PM
 
Oh, I also wonder when conservative talking heads lost perspective on the 1st in relation to private corporations. I guess they'd like the idiot who said someone should shit in Palin's mouth back on MSNBC?
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 02:05 PM
 
^^

I agree with said opinion.

I'm only noting "looking bad" in this particular situation overlaps with "****ton of money".

They get zero dollars from me. I don't have cable.
( Last edited by subego; Dec 23, 2013 at 02:15 PM. )
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 02:10 PM
 
I think the only way this turns out badly for A&E is if the Duck Dynasty guys say screw it. Otherwise, life will go on.
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 02:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Edit: You make this sound like a good thing, but isn't the spectre hanging over A&E that prominent LGBT groups will call for boycotts of sponsors of the show, causing them to distance themselves, at which point A&E loses money?
They're going to boycott the show because they suspended the homophobe?
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 02:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
They're going to boycott the show because they suspended the homophobe?
How long does a suspension have to last to atone for what he said? It's not the suspension, it's when it inevitably ends. Will LGBT groups be cool with him if he's suspended for two weeks? Three months? What's the magic number?
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 02:20 PM
 
The magic number is "next season".
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 02:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Oh, I also wonder when conservative talking heads lost perspective on the 1st in relation to private corporations. I guess they'd like the idiot who said someone should shit in Palin's mouth back on MSNBC?
I don't expect much from talking heads. I do expect governors to have a basic understanding of the Constitution.

Lookin' at you, Jindal.
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 02:23 PM
 
If he's absent from a grand total of zero episodes, I'll be surprised if there's no outcry. I haven't read up on things, but what is the actual repercussion of his "suspension" anyway? Are they even filming right now?
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 02:26 PM
 
I have no idea.

At some point, people are going to get "boycott Phil" fatigue, and as you said, life will go on.

This is the Queer Eye channel. I have faith in their outreach ability.
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 02:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I have no idea.

At some point, people are going to get "boycott Phil" fatigue, and as you said, life will go on.

This is the Queer Eye channel. I have faith in their outreach ability.
I thought that was Bravo?

But yeah, I forget why but Dog was cancelled for a while and came back, so yeah, worst case scenario for A&E I imagine.
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 02:31 PM
 
Dammit. I hate when I mix up mah gays!

Dog called people "niggers" on tape.



Edit: kudos to the staff for taking that off the censor list. All it did was confuse legitimate discourse.
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 02:47 PM
 
Yeah, dropping the n-bomb is way worse than anything said here.
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 02:54 PM
 
OTOH, Dog made a pretty sincere seeming apology. That ain't gonna happen with this.
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 03:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Why would a homosexual have much greater odds of committing suicide due to bullying than the person with severe acne, the obese person, the minority, and the wealth of any other factors by which kids mistreat other kids? Because they show a higher suicide rate overall. Any cursory glance at statistics showing far greater rates of gay suicide in the most tolerant countries on the globe would establish that bullying or acceptance may not be the primary factor of suicide and that perhaps other factors are at play here. Truly compassionate action for these children would have to include careful examination into why they are more prone to depression and suicide regardless of societal acceptance.

I also don't think it's easy to conclude that it is heterosexuals that are most cruel to homosexuals in which case we'd have to teach homosexual children that it's not okay to lash out at other homosexual children to cover their own closeted sexuality.


I'm not interested in getting all legalistic and pseudo-scientific on this issue. If you can't see that being gay makes kids feel particularly vulnerable, confused, stressed about coming out to parents and friends, not to mention the possibility of having to deal with bullying, I don't know what I can say that will change things here.

About the only thing on your list that is comparable is being a minority, as being a certain race or certain sexual orientation is very much the core of one's being, whereas having pimples or being overweight is a condition that for a number of kids will only be temporary.

But I'm really not sure where you are going with all of this. It seems like you are interested in being insensitive about being gay to make some sort of point, although I'm not sure what that is. I'm not saying that you're homophobic, I think your point is something about how too much attention is put on being gay, but I still don't understand why you feel the need to downplay this issue. What social issue would you like to promote in the place of homosexuality tolerance/rights?
( Last edited by besson3c; Dec 23, 2013 at 03:38 PM. )
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 03:27 PM
 
From having argued this a few times with ebuddy, I'd say the general shape of his argument is homosexuality is a disorder, but there's severe political (as opposed to scientific) opposition to the idea.

I can't tell you if it's a disorder, but I 100% agree with the claim there is overwhelming political (as opposed to scientific) pressure not to consider it as such. I don't think it's even possible to have a proper scientific investigation on it considering the political atmosphere.


ebuddy, you are free to read me the riot act for not giving a correct accounting.
     
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Dec 23, 2013, 03:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Oh, I also wonder when conservative talking heads lost perspective on the 1st in relation to private corporations. I guess they'd like the idiot who said someone should shit in Palin's mouth back on MSNBC?
I don't recall any conservative talking heads calling for the firing of the MSNBC idiot. Link?

From the Fairness Doctrine to calling for the heads of all those daring to express contrarian thought, the desire to tear down the 1st is nearly exclusively a phenomena of the left, talking heads and politicians alike.
ebuddy
     
 
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